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fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
253
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Posted - 2013.05.05 23:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think the previous tree was too short and too grindy, the little I've seen/heard of this next tree looks about right, I like the direction they are heading too with basic suits leading to the more specialized suits, I would like to see the same thing for the weapons tho. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
255
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 00:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:I think the problem is that the skill system used in general is just not suitable for a FPS
For an MMO it works well enough because you expect to spend a significant amount of time building your character but FPS games tend to have a greater emphasis on player skill over character skill
This will likely get certain people up in arms but I think if they are really dedicated to the skill system then maxing out the skills needed to be viable in a role should take weeks not months otherwise in the long term I imagine there will be a large player drop off and due to word of mouth less people willing to even give the game a chance and instead move on to the next CoD or Battlefield or whatever shooter where you are viable and useful from day one rather than month six
I deiced to try out a MLT suit (the only thing I changed was a MLT shield recharger to an MLT extender) to see if it was as hard to play with as every one said, I killed a proto by myself. This is not me bragging, look me up I have a 2kdr.
My point is that the biggest barrier is not skills or high level gear but the perception of inequality, just like with heavies every one thinks they are op but I have a better chance beating a heavy then an assault, in every suit I play in, its the perception that they have a higher DPS and HP then me therefore they are op that hangs most people up.
Yes given equal skill statistics say you will lose against higher level suits, but this also feeds into a meta game where protos get cocky and you can use it against them, or you just have to work harder for the better positioning. Its never just gun game, as important as that is, smart play counts for a lot, something that is lost when you are used to being king of the battle feild(admitedly the best players never lose sight of that but thats why they are the best).
wow this turned into a wall of text so let me close by saying that while I have 9mil SP there was only a few weeks of skills that were relevant to the suit I was running(ARpro to 2, sharpshooter to 4, shield and armor to 5). What I had that most people in the game a few weeks don't have is knowledge, I know that this game does rely on skill, I have used every Item in the game, and while I may never have mastered them, I know how to beat every weapon and every suit. In short this game requires a LOT of experience, and most new people mistake a lack of experience for an unbalanced shooter.(well actually this game is unbalanced, but unbalanced in their favor, AR assault is easy mode from day one to end game) |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
255
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 01:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I think DUST could learn a bit from Planetside 2 here, actually.
PS2 has a "cert" system similar to SP in DUST where in game performance for various contributions earn you cert points, which are then spent to unlock weapons, gear, suit upgrades, abilities, vehicle equipment, etc.
You earn individual certs very fast, say, one cert every 2-3 kills for example if you are just killing. But the average cost of an unlock runs from 250-1000 certs with minor things likr attachments for guns running 50-200 certs.
In PS2, you can unlock things fairly fast. If I grind for a a week or two I can acquire a new unlock very fast. This always keeps a nice shiny in sight to work for and gives a sense of progression. However, unlocking EVERYTHING would take a verrrryyy long time because of the sheer amount of upgrades and unlocks available.
See, thats how DUST should be. The BREADTH of it should make it complex and a time sink, not the DEPTH of it. Would you rather spend 20 hours unlocking 5 things or 20 hours unlocking 50 things? Why, the second option, of course.
If CCP would be better at releasing a huge amount of content and options to spend SP on, you wouldn't have to worry about someone maxing all skills because there are too many.
I firmly believe CCP should follow the PS2 model in this regards and stop making an artificial time sink, and intsead make a veritable flood of content instead.
If you have to train one x10 skill or ten x1 skills, the x1 skills are more fun because you feel progression and are always thrown a bone, keeping something constantly within reach. The current system takes the carrot on the stick and warps it to another district...
This would require a lot of work from CCP but I think it would be worth it and more enjoyable for everyone. Are you suggesting CCP should actually provide us with more content if they want more money from us? Blasphemy! I know... I'm afraid that if I suggest the game needs more meat to it, the Thought Police will come snipe me... But its the most straightforward and honest solution.
CCP fan boy here, and yes you are right they have a looooonnnnggg way to go content wise, but really you can spend 20 hours unlocking a lot more then a few things but if you want those things to be as good as then can be then you have to spend more time on them, and that's the way it should be. you can easily dable but to play high end you have to spend time and effort. and thats the way it should be. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries
RISE of LEGION
255
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 01:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
WE LOVE ReGnUM wrote:jenza aranda wrote:Heya peeps,
Recently there has been some ranting and raving from various people and even some people have been taking things i have said out of context.
Thats why Id like to do something that probably hasnt been done on the forums for a while; Make an opinion, explain my opinion, have a mature and reasoned debate with anyone who perhaps dont share my view.
"SP Sink"
We had a reset when we where moved onto tranquility which was about late january, people started running full proto gear as much as a couple of months later. Its now May, only 3 or 4 moths later practically everyone is running around with full protogear be it vehicular or or infantry. when you have a game that is supposed to take years to get everything, I do think that it should at least take a little longer to get to full prototype.
When i saw the tree and skill multipliers, i did think they should perhaps be lowered a bit, but after thinking on it, i changed my mind.
If anyone else woul like to have a proper debate about things without descending to petty insults then go ahead :) So basically for this game to have meaningful progress it needs to be through relentless grind of Gear and skills. This progression can't exist through a strong quality of continuous gameplay. I always assumed that what kept players playing was their experience and enjoyment in playing the game. Gear and skill progression was just a means to enhance that enjoyment. Now it seems everything is based solely on gear progression. The only thing this Skill sink does is create yet another wedge between the hardcore and casual crowd. I want players in PC 2 weeks in looking to make their mark on the universe. Lastly, I would expect some sort of etiquette from a CPM member. Your post is littered with spelling mistakes and the whole composure of it is just crude. Furthermore, you ask for a meaningful debate, yet you use one poor point to justify your argument. I'm sorry but this just seems like an attention grab. Making it look like you're doing something, but making no commitments.
As long as there is such a low limit to players in game there will ALWAYS be a separation of pro and casual because if corps can help it they will bring their high skill guys into ever PC match. And really you dont know what the **** you are doing in this game for the first month or two anyways, so by the time your corp has you trained up you will easily be in proto gear of one form or another. |
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