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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
156
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Posted - 2013.05.05 10:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Nice to see they ignored the legitimate complaints about your suggestion and haven't provided a solution that's remotely fair on people who actually read what we were purchasing.
Nonsense, anyone in their right mind would have assumed there would be a reset on commercial release in order to have a level playing field upon game launch.
Since then, CCP has found a way not to have to do this -- by changing the skills and SP requirements -- and now they have OFFERED you the option of not resetting. However, if you want to do the reset/refund they will let you.
Cry me a freaking river. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
159
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Posted - 2013.05.05 11:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Anyone who actually read and understood the purchase as it stood prior to open beta knows that "and" doesn't mean the same as "including" and that the wording used when I got my Merc Pack made a clear distinction that commercial release was independent of any reset, and that neither one required the other.
LOL. All of that off the word "and" huh? Keep trying and keep crying. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 11:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
I find it funny that you're trying to defend CCP's decision to run with something that violates their own offer, and using your own failure to comprehend basic English as an argument.
I'm not so much defending CCP as collecting tears from the clowns. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 11:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
LOL. I have seen this too.
Some of you are trying to draw a distinction between resets and the commercial release. However, once again for the mentally deficient, the use of "and" is not generally meant to exclude something but to include something. The commercial release is being lumped into the list as a similar item -- not as something different.
Obviously, during development there will be resets and similarly upon commercial release.
Only, it turns out, the new SP revamp means we don't have to be reset. So, you can still choose the reset if you wish to - and now you are crying because those of us who don't want to choose the reset will keep our SP.
Blah blah blah. Cry away... my cup runneth over. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 12:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
What I'm asking is for a refund of the OTHER Merc Pack items, and the Aurum spent on OTHER ITEMS. Things like the HK4M Shotguns, which I know a few people experimented with, "safe" in the knowledge that we were owed another refund of them. The Stimulants. The Fused Locus Grenades (which I'm hoping we get an ISK equivalent for in Uprising). Any Dragonfly or Toxin BPOs that got deleted. THOSE should be refunded without needing a full character reset.
The much later comment that there will be no more resets was taken way too far by folks of your ilk. The assumptions you made, and others picked up in the forums, were incorrect.
I grow fat on year tears. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 12:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Quite a while ago, CCP announced "no more resets", and in spite of people pressing them for confirmation that there wouldn't be a reset even though the Merc Pack promises a refund without requiring one, they kept saying "no more resets".
LOL. You are reinterpreting the legalese based on a later comment. It doesn't work that way.
CCP has come up with a way to OFFER us not to require a reset on commercial. Most of us are more than happy to take that OFFER. However, for those that are not they have left the option to reset and refund.
Make your choice and quit crying.
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 12:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
They specifically stated "no more resets". People asked about the Merc Pack refunds, and have been constantly asking for clarification, ever since, and they offered no answers, but maintained the claim that they wouldn't reset us "barring catastrophe". This isn't a catasrophe. It's a PR screw-up.
It doesn't matter what they "stated" later in relation to the interpretation of the Merc Pack legalese. I suspect the non-answers were something that people should have considered a little more carefully.
About this time people with mommy's for lawyers chimed in stating that CCP had better refund them or go to court and so forth. Frankly, I'm just happy they found a way to not force everyone to be reset. There never was any way that people would be able to get a refund without a reset.
Anyone with a brain understood that all along.
I understand you think it isn't fair that you'd have to give up SP to get a refund. Too bad. It's a done deal and we are all just waiting for the tears to stop flowing. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
How many times do I have to point out that this doesn't actually affect me personally before you get it? Either way, I get what I want. I'm not losing anything by CCP not refunding the items I still have anyway.
I'm not crying, I'm laughing at your failure to understand the problem. Until it's actually DONE (at which point, I cancel my plans to give CCP any more money), it's not done.
The Merc Pack did NOT list a reset as a compulsory requirement for the refund. If it did, there would be no argument.
You are certainly QQing if you are going to cancel your plans to give CCP any more money as a result.
There are a million of things the Merc Pack did not state... and you are interpreting that a certain way. Yours is an unlikely interpretation but you are welcome to cling to it. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
We were assured of a full credit of Merc Pack contents on commercial release, with commercial release explicitly mentioned as different from a character reset.
Maybe you should look up the definition of explicit. Then reread the Merc Pack terms. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
"At every character reset and commercial release" has no ambiguity in it. There's no implication that a character reset and commercial release are the same thing. It explicitly states that the two terms refer to different things. They aren't mutually exclusive, but neither is reliant on the other. I'm not sure what dictionary you're using, but maybe you need a better one?
Look, in reading the above it is very clear (to many) that there is certainly an implication present. The two events are clearly related in some way.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Merc Pack refunds are reliant on EITHER condition, a reset OR commercial release is sufficient to satisfy the conditions under which the Merc Pack should be refunded. They didn't have to have a commercial release every time there was a reset. We shouldn't be forced to have a reset at commercial release - particularly not an individual character reset just for the people wanting their Merc Packs refunded.
Yes, but again, you are assuming that a commercial release would not be expected to cause a reset. When there are resets without commercial releases it seems pretty likely that a commercial release would also require a reset. Who thought they'd get through beta and come out without some adjustment related to equalization?
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
They didn't, in any way, imply that commercial release is a reset, and by defining it separately within the Merc Pack terms, they implied that it's not one. That's an implication, not a direct statement. But they distinctly referred to commercial release and character reset as two different events, neither of which was bound to the other, and EITHER of which would offer - independently of the other - a refund of the Merc Pack.
I am not saying a commercial release IS a reset. The daftness is strong in you. I'm saying that you can't expect a commercial release without a reset. The fact that CCP found a way to offer a bonus to beta testers later on is simply a bonus.
Now, you don't have to go through a reset if you don't want to. You've been given a choice. Take it, leave it, or whine for eternity. The choice is yours. |
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 14:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheReaper545 wrote:
One. The event's are clearly not related in anyway if they were related it would state in the terms of purchase agreement, and on commercial reset/release. But they never specified a reset at commercial within the contract.
Two. The agreement never said that the merc pack would be optional as stated before in another thread. If it would have said "optionally" it would of went something like, You shall obtain the merc pack at each character reset/wipe during the beta and
"optionally" at release. You see if they would have put optionally they would of had more room to wiggle out of this.
Three. They have already confirmed no more resets and clearly they are keeping to that statement. Still doesn't void the contract they need to honor.
Heh, let's start with the third point. It's meaningless. They are not bound to a forum post stating that they don't intend to do more resets.
Second, it doesn't matter if the Merc Pack stated every future option or not. Options can be provided to people so that they can either take the original offer or choose an option. There is nothing stopping any company from creating new options as they see fit.
Two meaningless arguments.
Your only hope is with the interpretation as per your first point. First, it is very clear that the points are related in some way. They are mentioned in the same sentence with the word AND between them. This doesn't happen without some type of relationship between the items.
So, if you take away events that happened well after people purchased the Merc Pack, as they have no bearing on the terms associated with it, we are left to consider what was expected at the time it was released. At that time I doubt many people felt that you would have a commercial release without a reset.
It was only after CCP suggested no more resets that people starting turning to their mommy lawyers and thinking they could put one over on CCP. The original terms of the agreement don't look as good now that time has passed and new information has come to light. You don't have to like it. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
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Posted - 2013.05.05 15:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
TheReaper545 wrote:
First just because the word AND is in a sentence has no proof of correlation. Saying AND brings them closer into a relationship is absurd. That's like saying "The house is green and the flower is purple" has some form of correlation.
How about looking at the sentence in question... instead of this made up malarky?
TheReaper545 wrote:Two. CCP assumed they would be doing the reset as well not my problem or anyone's problem for the matter of fact that they chose not to. If they were going to do it we wouldn't be doing a sp respec, Also I highly doubt they would reset after commercial release not a single successful company resets after commercial release it would always be before. If they did do the reset after commercial release then it was never meant to leave beta as the game is still flawed and is a huge failure on their part. And even if they assumed they would be doing a reset before commercial release before they stated no more resets, "Unless something major happens", The contract is still good and the refund on commercial release is good.
Nonsense. Are you playing the "after" and "before" (oh, look, after and before are related) game instead of "at the same time" which is more likely. You are the one playing word games here. CCP stating that they don't intend a reset, in the forum, is not part of this issue. It doesn't disassociate refund/reset it just signals that have something else in mind.
TheReaper545 wrote:Third. It does matter if they state optionally you can not say and commercial release then slap someone with a optionally at full release that is called false advertising a product.
Nonsense. You are missing the point. If you buy something from me and I offer X later I can make a different offer later, say Y, and you can choose between X and Y. That's always allowed.
The only thing you can argue is whether or not it is reasonable to assume that commercial release would involve a reset at the time the offer was made. Nothing else has any bearing on the issue of honoring the terms offered. No statements about not intending a general reset in the forum will adjust the original expectations when the terms were issued. |
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