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MrShooter01
Expert Intervention Caldari State
281
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'd be more comfortable with this if skills were more frontloaded like they are in eve online... I'm not even sure if I used that word correctly or if it is a real word so here is what I mean
In eve the total SP cost to train a rank 1 skill to level 4 is 45,255 out of the cap of 256,000 at level 5, or 17.6% of the time it would take to train it all the way to 5.
As you probably know, in dust it takes 50% of the skills total skillpoint cap (155,460 of 310,920) to train it to level 4.
Training things to level 4 in eve is **** easy compared to dust, but going from 4 to 5 is a huge investment.
My mindset in eve was to make myself versatile by "carefully choosing" lots of crap to train to level 4, and later on making the stretch to level 5 in roles I thought I was particularly good at, a strategy that is kind of a pain in the ass in dust due to the much higher skillpoint cost of lower levels in dust.
I probably will need to suck it up and really specialize, but I'm a bit stubborn when a game tells me I'm not allowed to do everything at once |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
414
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fair
Really it doesnt bother me atm, always gives me something to aim for |
Malkai Inos
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ric Barlom wrote:That's an excellent question Marston. A deep question. I'm gonna try and give you a comprehensive answer and I hope I can make some sense into this hot topic. But before I go there I'd like to address this whole notion of something people call "SP sink". What the hell is that? I mean, isn't everything an SP sink? I might be a little bit stupid here or something but I can't make the difference between an SP sink skill and a normal skill! I'm gonna be blunt here and answer my own question for you guys out there around the world: "SP sink" is a BS buzzword created by people who are pissed off cause their skill points got devalued!
I'd like to try and adress that by providing a working definition of the term "SP sink"
I'd call an "SP sink" any skill that provides no specialization and that, when not skilled, puts one in an inherent disadvantage over someone that invested in that particular skill in many/most situations.
Looking at the current SS and Weaponry bonuses, no footsoldier can afford not to put SP in those particular skills, in order to be competitive, as there is no situation in wich doing more damage or having higher range is a bad thing. So these two, i think, are indeed "SP sinks" and their removal/redesign is a good thing.
Suitskills are for specilization primarily and provide very specific advantages that by themselves are often situational, so using them is a decision, not a necessity. Therefore i'd object to calling them "SP sinks" . Wether or not their cost will be too high once Uprising hits is somewhat subjective and i haven't played the game enough to provide meaningfull analysis in that regard.
Fitting skills are somewhat of a middle ground since they don't necessarily specialize but also don't guarantee a significant disadvantage if left out. A cheaper fitting is not bound to be weaker than a more tightly fitted one and it is only a matter of time before shitfit threads show up to demonstrate that. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
31
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
General Tiberius1 wrote:hurts new players the most, therefore is bad.
free to play game, people wont stick around if it feels like a grind
nobody wants those players to stick around. this is more of a 'i'm here for the challenge' type of title. |
Talruum Tezztarozza
Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS.
89
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
My first impression when I heard Electronic and Engineer is going from X1 to X5 is "Wah? That is ridiculous".
This is the very same impresstion when I heard Sharpshooter skills will be removed. "Wah? That is ridiculous. Where is our character customization ?"
But after calmly listen to those who support SS removal decision. While I'm not that happy with CCP solution, I can see their reasoning. The sharpshooter skill was previously so mandatory that everyone must get it. If everybody is getting SS then the end result is the same with everyone hqave a million sp less to spend else where. It might as well not exist altogether thus it's removed.
Electronic and Engineer is currently the same. It's so mandatory that any experienced EVE player will put their first chunk of SP on it without second thought and will tell any new player to do the same. In this case, the skill might well be removed just like SS but this time CCP didn't do it. Instead, CCP move these skills up to higher tier and increase the multiplier. Now there will be a real choice between increase existed suit PG/CPU or moving up to next suit. The skill is now doing its job. While it may defy any EVE logic we know (and love?), it is actually more in-line with usual RPG skill tree most casual player know and be familiar with.
To conclude, I'm more happy with this solution than simply remove the skill. If only they do this with Sharpshooter skill as well . Yes, 40% range increase is overkill. How about we make it one tier skill, reduce its effective to 1 or 2% a level. 10% range increase shouldn't topple much balance, should it ?
About overall SP requirement increase in general, I think it's fair. Just like ISW and other have said, don't decieve yourself. The assault suit you know and love today is actually renamed to medium suit and you can actually get it for cheaper SP. the new assault suit is actually a new tier suit you aren't expected to spec into anytime soon. (but you guy will do it soon enough anyway)
TL;DR Yes, it is fair |
Ric Barlom
On The Brink CRONOS.
59
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Posted - 2013.05.04 17:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Ric Barlom wrote:That's an excellent question Marston. A deep question. I'm gonna try and give you a comprehensive answer and I hope I can make some sense into this hot topic. But before I go there I'd like to address this whole notion of something people call "SP sink". What the hell is that? I mean, isn't everything an SP sink? I might be a little bit stupid here or something but I can't make the difference between an SP sink skill and a normal skill! I'm gonna be blunt here and answer my own question for you guys out there around the world: "SP sink" is a BS buzzword created by people who are pissed off cause their skill points got devalued!
I'd like to try and adress that by providing a working definition of the term "SP sink" I'd call an "SP sink" any skill that provides no specialization and that, when not skilled, puts one in an inherent disadvantage over someone that invested in that particular skill in many/most situations. Looking at the current SS and Weaponry bonuses, no footsoldier can afford not to put SP in those particular skills, in order to be competitive, as there is no situation in wich doing more damage or having higher range is a bad thing. So these two, i think, are indeed "SP sinks" and their removal/redesign is a good thing. Suitskills are for specilization primarily and provide very specific advantages that by themselves are often situational, so using them is a decision, not a necessity. Therefore i'd object to calling them "SP sinks" . Wether or not their cost will be too high once Uprising hits is somewhat subjective and i haven't played the game enough to provide meaningfull analysis in that regard. Fitting skills are somewhat of a middle ground since they don't necessarily specialize but also don't guarantee a significant disadvantage if left out. A cheaper fitting is not bound to be weaker than a more tightly fitted one and it is only a matter of time before ****fit threads show up to demonstrate that. I really like this definition for an SP sink, man. I'm afraid though, that most people use the term to describe a skill that simply costs a lot of SP. I mean yeah I agree with you 100% on the fact that skills that are SP sinks, by your definition, should be removed or modified and I do think the new build is better in that regard too, dude. Not perfect by any means, but better. |
Sergeant Wiznowski
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
44
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
Title should say - Is grinding SP fun in this game?
Do you feel that after grind in pubs you earned something new and useful? Well I felt that during closed beta with 4 times SP that we are getting now (sometimes more). I will hold my judgment but I don't want to play only heavy/assault/logi for the next 6 months.
Instead of excitement before new build I just feel resigned. |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
188
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Ive read it all and basically almost every skill is getting upped by a multiplier or two. Dropsuits are going from a x8 skill to a x10, this means from level 1 to level 5 your going to spend about another 600k sp. (2.5million to 3.1 million). The core electronics/engineering skill is getting bumped up from a x1 skill to a x6 skill...... (another 1.2 million). Weapons are staying the same I believe, but weapon upgrade skills seemed to be bumped up too...... (considering there isn't an "overarching" sharpshooter anymore, each weapon has its own specific sharpshooter/other upgrades).
I have about 10,500,000 SP because I missed two weeks of this beta, so I don't have as much as I could, but 10 mill is still a lot. After reading the dev blogs and everything..... it feels like a lot less. It forces specialization for sure, but many view it as a pointless SP sink due to a lack of new content. Personally I feel the SP increases (while annoying) are fine, it slows down progression but increases player specialization.
what do you guys think? I think its fair.
It's not fair if the bonuses are not helpful, like the weapon feedback damage reduction for Sentinel suits. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2013.05.04 18:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
low genius wrote:General Tiberius1 wrote:hurts new players the most, therefore is bad.
free to play game, people wont stick around if it feels like a grind nobody wants those players to stick around. this is more of a 'i'm here for the challenge' type of title.
Sorry and dont mean to be argumentative but what challenge when SP reward is mostly determined by time in game and using boosters?
Though it is obvious that CCP can now channel their playerbase by offering greater SP rewards in modes they want highlighted etc. |
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