DUST Search - the minmatar scout suit: D.O.A?

Ivan Avogadro wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Seeing that I specialize in the scout suit, perhaps I should chime in.

I actually like that they reduced the amount of equipment you can carry so that logibros can have a greater purpose as they should.

Wait wait wait. Since when have scouts been stealing Logibro jobs? And how will 2 equip slots on a low HP soldier compete against this:

Amarr: 300EHP, 3 Equip
Caldari: 270 EHP, 3 Equip
Gallente: 270EHP, 4 Equip
Minmatar: 240EHP, 4 Equip

Every single one of them has at least 3 high slots, and way more equip than a Scout is even asking for. A scout isn't going to follow a heavy around with reps, rush through crossfire with a needle, or lay down super glowy nanohives and repair hives. The ONLY overlap between a scout who is doing his job and a logi who is doing his job is putting down an Uplink, and it's NEVER a problem to have more of those.

What equip does the Scout want to run? Well, we covered Uplinks. We also have the Active Scanner for intelligence, Remote Explosives for protecting hacks, and Cloaking Device (when it finally appears). But now I can't run both a Explosives and a Cloak for bomber kills? Or I can't place an Uplink after Scanning for enemies? Oh no, I hope the Logi Lobby is satiated.

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Travi Zyg G I A N T EoN. 55	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:26:00 - [1] - Quote I feel like everyone and their mother is saying the suit is awful and totally not worth it...ive seen the bonus/stats and im still interested in it. Just looking for a fresh change to go along with the new build and now the nova knives seem viable as well. What do you guys think about the minnie scout as of now?
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 139	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:38:00 - [2] - Quote As of now, it is an ugly though well-bonused future for Minmatar Scouts. I can't say any more than that as I have not used it at all.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:41:00 - [3] - Quote Travi Zyg wrote: I feel like everyone and their mother is saying the suit is awful and totally not worth it...ive seen the bonus/stats and im still interested in it. Just looking for a fresh change to go along with the new build and now the nova knives seem viable as well. What do you guys think about the minnie scout as of now? I actually thing it's the better of the two scout suits. Only two things suck about the Minmatar Scout: The bonus is weapon specific for a lackluster weapon, so it forces you to use knives or lose the bonus It only has 1 equipment slot, but this failing is shared by the Gallente suit For direct comparison, Minmatar is essentially shield and Gallente is essentially armor, but both have such low EHP that the type of tanking doesn't really matter. The modules matter much more, and with 3 high and 2 low slots, I feel like the Minmatar has more versatility. Low slots you can use to focus on full speed, full stealth, speed/stealth, or even armor reps and shield regulators. The high slots let you choose to stack defense for a tank build or damage for a glass cannon. And the suit is faster at base than the Gallente. G Scout, on the other hand, has 4 lows and 1 high. That single high slot isn't enough to build anything on. 1 damage or 1 shield mod? Barely a difference when most suits will be stacking. The problem with the 4 lows is you could go for armor, but that means making the slow scout slower. So while Minmatar scout is probably up over 300EHP, Gallente is stuck at ~200EHP. You're only chance is to stack profile dampeners and go full stealth build. For versatility, both of them need a second equip slot. If scouts are supposed to run away from the pack they need to have more options. If scouts are supposed to run with the pack they both need more HP.
Chilled Pill Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:50:00 - [4] - Quote I don't see either suits having a role to play in PC. They'd likely be easy kills and a liability.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 126	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:56:00 - [5] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: The problem with the 4 lows is you could go for armor, but that means making the slow scout slower. there will be plates that have lower bonus but no speed penalty.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.05.03 12:59:00 - [6] - Quote Chilled Pill wrote: I don't see either suits having a role to play in PC. They'd likely be easy kills and a liability. well they will have the same effective HP as the do now, so any scout who is viable today would be viable in PC. Jack McReady wrote: there will be plates that have lower bonus but no speed penalty. is that confirmed for Uprising? I thought that was confirmed for Soon(TM). In either case, I bet that those armor plates offer less protection that shields, because otherwise armor would have too much more versatility.
Chances Ghost Inf4m0us 76	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:04:00 - [7] - Quote firstly the minmitar suit still retains its bonus even if you dont use nova knoves, as it still gets a bonus to mele damage second their two roles are very different the gallante scout will be the king of staying hidden, it will be able to chose its own engagements and hide like no other suit the matari scout is the fastest thing on two legs in the game, and with 2 speed mods in the lows it becomes rediculasly quick, wich enables it to get in mele range really quickly, and make good use of a shotgun as well. they are scouts, they are meants to rush in, and give intel, then strike once the main force arrives and provides a distraction so that the reds have their backs turned and are shooting something else. these will DEFINATLY see use in competitive play, although their learning curve is definatly going to be higher
Travi Zyg G I A N T EoN. 55	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:19:00 - [8] - Quote Chilled Pill wrote: I don't see either suits having a role to play in PC. They'd likely be easy kills and a liability. On the contrary, I think they will have a large role. Just because something is Squishy doesnt mean its an "easy kill".... Afaik, PC is skirmish...imagine super fast scouts able to get behind enemy lines quickly with some lvld up system hacking to take obj and act as distractions, that's what is gonna win strategic matches. And this will only be amplified when cloaks are introduced.
Kazeno Rannaa Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 160	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:39:00 - [9] - Quote I would have to agree. I think the Minnie Scout will be even more viable with the combination of the Combat rifle (Minnie AR) when it comes out and you combine that with the fleylock pistol, the combo could be beast. Play it with Nova knives and you could be the speed gank of knived assassins. I will be sending one of my toon down this road until we get the other racial variants in the Heavy class. I want my Minimatar Ogre!!
Exmaple Core SyNergy Gaming EoN. 203	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:43:00 - [10] - Quote The mini scout is the better of the 2. like it was said 1 high slot for gallente is worthless its basically not there. 10% more damage wooooo. Gallente scout gets 4 lows but it has to stack between dampeners, repairs, plates, and stimulants so if you specialize your lacking in other areas like combat or avoiding the new scan gun. cant really be good at both in that suit. The mini scout gets sheilds in high slots and whateva it wants in low slots. Much more effective suit

Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:50:00 - [11] - Quote The Minnie suit is better kill oriented but the Gall suit is the more versatile if you play the scout as a proper stealth combatant. With the 4 low slots you have so many possibilities. Now if CCP can deal out great rewards (WP) encouraging that type of play is another matter. I am contemplating skilling into one because even though I will probably die alot (squishy and I'm not that good an FPS) it is fun and when stuff comes off its really rewarding.
Den-tredje Baron The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 7	Posted - 2013.05.03 13:59:00 - [12] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: The mini scout is the better of the 2. like it was said 1 high slot for gallente is worthless its basically not there. 10% more damage wooooo. Gallente scout gets 4 lows but it has to stack between dampeners, repairs, plates, and stimulants so if you specialize your lacking in other areas like combat or avoiding the new scan gun. cant really be good at both in that suit. The mini scout gets sheilds in high slots and whateva it wants in low slots. Much more effective suit. Right now the gallente proto scout suit has 3 highs, 3 lows, 2 equipment slots. Anyone geuss why it was nerfed? geuss scouts are really that scary even though no one plays them I'm guessing the rebalance in slot layout is also for future use. It's not really armor tanked when it has an equal share of highs and lows but ohwell guessing here CCP must have their own ideas. Regarding taking away the equipment slot i'm glad they did it with the assault suits as they are not meant to be a self supplying class, but the scout are much more a jack of all trades suit. No logi can keep up with them and scouts are like the masters of running out and placing evil sneaky droppads for the rest of the team to spawn in on. They shouldn't have lost that second equipment slot
Cody Sietz The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 97	Posted - 2013.05.03 14:04:00 - [13] - Quote Seems like a great end game suit, but it will be tough to use but the payoff will be worth it. Amarr and caldari look to be the best starter fit with the best bonuses without investing too much into them. Not sure about Gallente...but thats what I will be using.
Epicsting pro Planetary Response Organization 11	Posted - 2013.05.03 14:05:00 - [14] - Quote With 4 low slot you have melee damage mod, speed mods, rep mods, dampers, armor mods, pg upgrade, CPU upgrade, and ect... With all these choices combos look good, I personally like 4 rep mod for 23hp/s.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2768	Posted - 2013.05.03 14:09:00 - [15] - Quote Epicsting pro wrote: With 4 low slot you have melee damage mod, speed mods, rep mods, dampers, armor mods, pg upgrade, CPU upgrade, and ect... With all these choices combos look good, I personally like 4 rep mod for 23hp/s. That rep means essentially nothing as a scout, because in most situations you either get hit with enough damage in a short period of time to chew through your tiny amount of HP, and you just die before your rep can actually do anything; or, you kill your opponent outright. It's useful to have some healing as a scout, but it's basically useless because with just one armor rep you can usually escape all the same, and by the time you engage someone, you're usually topped off. At the moment Minmatar scout looks superior, but Gallente scout will be a vicious monster once active cloak is released, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.05.03 15:00:00 - [16] - Quote Epicsting pro wrote: CPU upgrade What are we going to use the CPU on exactly? It's not like Gallente Scouts have high slot mods eating all the CPU. Epicsting pro wrote: melee damage mod Just go Minmatar Scout. You get those bonuses naturally, plus extra speed, and the high slots to increase your shield (maybe you can tank a few bullets as you lunge your knives at them). A melee based Gallente is ridiculous, there is a better suit for that. Epicsting pro wrote: rep mods...armor mods These are decent, but not at the current cost of speed. Two armor plates will reduce you down to as slow as a Caldari Assault at the cost of 2 lows. Or you can just roll with a Caldari Assault Suit and 1 Complex Kinetic Catalyzer. You'd be as fast as the base scout, with 120 more EHP, and still have 4 high and 2 low slots left. Epicsting pro wrote: Speed mods...dampers This is really the only viable choice left. You won't be able to increase your damage or health enough to overcome the natural shortcomings of the suit. So just lean into it. Gallente Scout is going to have to specialize in these two areas.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 28	Posted - 2013.05.03 15:52:00 - [17] - Quote As primarily a scout player i'm definitely not seeing a big incentive to go with the Gallente scout without cloaking modules. The suit bonuses (profile dampening and scan range) are extremely useful but those capabilities mean that you have less need to augment those stats using your 4 low slots. Using the low slots for armor rep, plates, speed etc is fine but the problem is that if you want to increse your suit stats in areas where you receive no passive bonus, such as profile analysis, shields, damage etc..., you only have that one high slot to do it in. And let's be real, with such low shields and such a low armor repair rate you are taking a big chance if you don't use that slot for a shield extender. Even the best scout can be suprised and it's nice to survive. Nothing is worse than running to that far off corner of the map to put down your last uplink and then dying before you can do that. At the moment the current Gallente suit is superior (and it seems the new Minmitar one will be also, even if you completely ignore the melee/nova knife bonus). At least with a current type A I can use a shield extender, profile analyzer and an armor repair and speed mod in the low. The proto is even better of course. Ugh..... guess with the Gallente scout suit the new motto will be 'low and slow'. As if my KDR needed any help getting worse....
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2182	Posted - 2013.05.03 15:53:00 - [18] - Quote Seeing that I specialize in the scout suit, perhaps I should chime in. I actually think both the Minmatar and Gallente scouts are greatly balanced compared to how they are now in Chromosome and I actually like that they reduced the amount of equipment you can carry so that logibros can have a greater purpose as they should. Their only downside (naturally) is that you have to choose between Gallente or Minmatar when deciding on whether you want to be a pure stealth scout or a pure melt-your-face-with-my-knives-and-fist scout. It will be interesting once I get my hands on them to see how they compare.
Nstomper Disqualified 254	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:13:00 - [19] - Quote I currently use the scout suit for my deadly ninja fit with the zn-28 nova knives , but whenever the caldari scout comes out ittl be an even more deadly ninja suit
Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 148	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:14:00 - [20] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Seeing that I specialize in the scout suit, perhaps I should chime in. I actually like that they reduced the amount of equipment you can carry so that logibros can have a greater purpose as they should. Wait wait wait. Since when have scouts been stealing Logibro jobs? And how will 2 equip slots on a low HP soldier compete against this: Amarr: 300EHP, 3 Equip Caldari: 270 EHP, 3 Equip Gallente: 270EHP, 4 Equip Minmatar: 240EHP, 4 Equip Every single one of them has at least 3 high slots, and way more equip than a Scout is even asking for. A scout isn't going to follow a heavy around with reps, rush through crossfire with a needle, or lay down super glowy nanohives and repair hives. The ONLY overlap between a scout who is doing his job and a logi who is doing his job is putting down an Uplink, and it's NEVER a problem to have more of those. What equip does the Scout want to run? Well, we covered Uplinks. We also have the Active Scanner for intelligence, Remote Explosives for protecting hacks, and Cloaking Device (when it finally appears). But now I can't run both a Explosives and a Cloak for bomber kills? Or I can't place an Uplink after Scanning for enemies? Oh no, I hope the Logi Lobby is satiated.

Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 1059	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:19:00 - [21] - Quote As a scout, a very weird scout, I'm sticking to gallente. I already put armor plates on my scouts, but the loss of the second high slot is going to pinch. There's also the benefit of being able to slap 4 Proto Armor Reps on it and be the gods of regen. Although I haven't been playing the stealth part, mostly because I do not believe it actually works this build, but I believe it will next, as the Active Scanner is fixed and that is bringing up Codex nostalgia when I first used it. So the Gallente is going to be slow and stealthy. The former I already deal with all the time. I armor tank my scouts, it's been no secret, and I love it. I'm going to turn my attitude 30 degrees left and pick up on Tacnet skills and abilities. Might as well, I also still want to bomb my sexy Quafes.
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 168	Posted - 2013.05.03 16:53:00 - [22] - Quote wait a second... the minmatar scout suit only has 2 low slots? How in the F are they going to be the fastest in the game with only 2 low slots. a gallente with 4 lows can stack 4 Kin cats. That will waste a minmatar with 2 kin cats. I am saddened by this.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2183	Posted - 2013.05.03 17:06:00 - [23] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Seeing that I specialize in the scout suit, perhaps I should chime in. I actually like that they reduced the amount of equipment you can carry so that logibros can have a greater purpose as they should. Wait wait wait. Since when have scouts been stealing Logibro jobs? They have been stealing some of your jobs believe it or not. Not as much as the assault suits though. Ninja revives proximity/remote explosive planting (mixed with nanohives to replenish) At least those two jobs.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 426	Posted - 2013.05.03 17:08:00 - [24] - Quote The minnie suit sounds great, and I'll test it out as a glass cannon shotgun scout suit with damage mods, and shield tanking capper. Can't wait! Bojo The Mighty wrote: Although I haven't been playing the stealth part, mostly because I do not believe it actually works this build, but I believe it will next, as the Active Scanner is fixed and that is bringing up Codex nostalgia when I first used it. Some of my suits have dual profile dampeners, and I can't count the times I've flanked snipers and blown them to kingdom come from point blank. I have never ever been detected doing that - although it is possible not all of them have been paying attention to minimap, it is unlikely all of them have.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 513	Posted - 2013.05.03 17:13:00 - [25] - Quote I'm going Gallente scout. I feel confident i will be able to put good use of the 4 lows.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Unclaimed. 497	Posted - 2013.05.03 17:32:00 - [26] - Quote Slot layouts aside, for that initial run-in uplink/hack suicide scout, the Gallente does have the advantage of the boosted scan radius. Not so much an advantage for the scout but for the scout's team coming in behind him they should have a pretty good idea of what's waiting for them.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organization 2183	Posted - 2013.05.03 17:42:00 - [27] - Quote mollerz wrote: wait a second... the minmatar scout suit only has 2 low slots? How in the F are they going to be the fastest in the game with only 2 low slots. a gallente with 4 lows can stack 4 Kin cats. That will waste a minmatar with 2 kin cats. I am saddened by this. I'll have to look into it once the suits come out. I'll need time to compare and stack the skill books, modules, and observe for myself to see which one is actually faster. The Gallente scout may seem like the fastest with the most low slots, but the Minmatar scout might be able to counter that with its racial bonus.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 12	Posted - 2013.05.03 18:01:00 - [28] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Seeing that I specialize in the scout suit, perhaps I should chime in. I actually like that they reduced the amount of equipment you can carry so that logibros can have a greater purpose as they should. Wait wait wait. Since when have scouts been stealing Logibro jobs? And how will 2 equip slots on a low HP soldier compete against this: Amarr: 300EHP, 3 Equip Caldari: 270 EHP, 3 Equip Gallente: 270EHP, 4 Equip Minmatar: 240EHP, 4 Equip Every single one of them has at least 3 high slots, and way more equip than a Scout is even asking for. A scout isn't going to follow a heavy around with reps, rush through crossfire with a needle, or lay down super glowy nanohives and repair hives. The ONLY overlap between a scout who is doing his job and a logi who is doing his job is putting down an Uplink, and it's NEVER a problem to have more of those. What equip does the Scout want to run? Well, we covered Uplinks. We also have the Active Scanner for intelligence, Remote Explosives for protecting hacks, and Cloaking Device (when it finally appears). But now I can't run both a Explosives and a Cloak for bomber kills? Or I can't place an Uplink after Scanning for enemies? Oh no, I hope the Logi Lobby is satiated. I haven't seen logi's really saying much at all about assault or scouts having two equipment slots. The most that logi's give feedback on is the fact that you get as much war points with base level equipment as high level equipment i.e. that there is no gameplay mechanics for rewarding investments in better equipment that benefit other troops on the battelfield. Where as with other classes better equipment = better chance of killing more people = more war points.
Ric Barlom On The Brink CRONOS. 44	Posted - 2013.05.03 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote First of all, guys, a great threat and some awesome feedback and I don't about you guys but every time I'm reading scout discussion I get the feeling that we, scout players, know to how to react to changes on our chosen role a lit bit more calmly and less hysterically than some of the others. Now the way I like to make my decisions in games like Dust 514, guys, is to focus on the long term and not so much on the current balance situation as things can change very rapidly in a game like this. How I see it here, is I try to understand the vision that CCP has for each scouts and where they wanna go with them and make my decision based on that, even if they aren't there yet, but of course that's just pure speculation so I'm going to focus mostly on the information we got from the Fanfest video posted by Laurent Cazaderon. When it comes to slot layouts of the suits I do think, like many others have said, that the Minmataar one seems a little bit stronger. The reason for that, at least from my point of view, being that shield tanking is stronger than armour tanking. Both of the scout suits have a high shield recharge rate and the armour plates slow you down which is a huge drawback. Now as we know guys there will be changes, like the armour plates which won't be slowing us down and I don't know if there are any plans for a some kind of drawback for the shield extenders, like increased scan profile or hit boxes, but that would change the situation drastically. As a side question, guys, do you guys like to tank your scouts and if so, how heavily? I know Bojo said he likes to roll with the armour plate scout, and I have tried but couldn't make it work as well as I'd have liked. I like to run the A series with either 1 or 2 complex shield extenders. Back to the topic, the reason I like the Gallente scout is because of the insane bonus to scan radius. And everyone who has talked to me about scouts, knows that I think scanning and dampening skills and modules are one of the most underrated part of the game. Now many players have told me "Ric it doesn't matter! You have to assume that there is enemy around every corner so that makes scanning obsolete!" Guys let's be real here: Knowing where your enemies are is huge and I don't give a **** who you are! A lot of times I can line up my shots with the shotgun perfectly cause I know exactly where the redberry is, and not only that but it helps others too. At the end of the day, I agree with a lot of people on that the Minmataar scout has the potential to be a better combat oriented scout and the Gallente should make for a better scanning/stealth type of scout.
CAELAN Andoril Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2013.05.03 18:35:00 - [30] - Quote I think I could get down with the Minmatar Scout. I already have a suit fitting this build that focuses on speed and just so happens to have Nova Knives on it [maybe they'll actually be worth it now]. I'm already pretty fast with my Dragonfly suit, now I'll be even faster? Yes, please.



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