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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
440
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Posted - 2013.04.16 19:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Rhapsodyy Darkforce wrote:ChribbaX wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:ChribbaX wrote:
It requires you to have trained Empire Control to level 5, and the cost to create one is 1 billion ISK. Then there is a monthly upkeep of the alliance which costs 2 million per corp.
/c
im guessing this is also in the EVE skill section and not the dust skills? so if we didnt do all that and just joined an alliance we wouldnt have the alliance name underneath the corp name? Ahh yes Empire Control is in EVE. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that you currently can actually join a DUST corp to an alliance, there's no mechanics for that iirc. So all mercs you see posting here that are in an alliance, their corporation is also an EVE corp (like mine). So until CCP allows DUST corps to join an alliance, you won't be able to have the name (obviously). Hope I made sense, else I'll try explain it again  /c Mostly correct A Dust side created corp can join an EvE side created alliance. Simply an EvE player needs to be made CEO of the dust corp, they can then apply the corp to join the alliance in question, then hand CEO role back. This is what we did with EoN. And yes you have to make the alliance EvE side which requires some skills and 1bil isk And just like that: Chribba discovers a new opportunity to employ his unique position in the cluster.
Not to rain on Chribba's parade, but if you can't get this done yourself within your alliance, you shouldn't be forming an alliance. The dues come out of the Executor's wallet on the Eve side, so you need some active Eve players in order to sustain the basics.
Plus, there are very few alliance mechanics that interface with Dust at the moment. We should be getting alliance mails and chat coming May 6, as well as the ability for our Eve based alliance mates to drop OB's in Planetary Conquest. That's about it as far as the game mechanic side of alliances go in Dust at the moment.
You do get a badass name under your corp name, though, and that's worth a pretty penny. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
442
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote:wouldn't that be more along the lines of what us mercs are responsible for? read a lot of articles about how you (CCP) provide the mechanics and the players run wold with them. would suggest releasing it like it is in eve and then tweaking it based on player feedback  That is exactly my point though, what we release is a set of tools. The tools though should be based on what you guys need and want. We could just straight up implement it as it is in EVE, but we may be spending development time on things you guys don't actually use. Equally important though is that maybe there are some things we can do to make alliances work better for you guys in DUST. As it stands alliances do work, so long as you have an EVE player in your corporation to join. With Uprising we are adding alliance chat, alliance mail, and bonuses for owning districts that apply to your entire alliance. So we are working on it and as I said we are monitoring how you guys use alliances to see what tools you need most.
The current Dust alliances have been requesting features for a long time, and they've been very consistent feature sets. There are also dead-bang OBVIOUS features with the upcoming PC rollout that you're not providing to alliances. If I can use a CCP member's name, your reasoning in a logic loop:
(1) CCP: Let's wait and see what features they need for alliances.
(2) Alliances: Well it looks like CCP isn't giving us very many features. We'll just have to do our best without them.
(3) CCP: Alliances don't seem to need additional mechanics. They're doing just fine managing with the current set.
(4) -> Nothing happens
These are the things that don't need looking over, don't need to be questioned, and do need to be implemented. There is no waiting for these, because alliances will eventually compensate at the cost of burning out the leaders and managers who drive the human drama you're hoping to emulate from Eve Online:
Core alliance management:
Unless you plan to change the entirety of the alliance experience in New Eden, the Dust client needs to be able to do the following, provided the correct permissions:
Create alliances
Apply to alliances
Vote for executor
Leave alliances
Send alliance mail (from Dust client)
etc
So basically all the management tools that are independent of physical items in space or on the ground. If I could do the action in a station and no in-game items change their current locations for doing it, it's something that needs to be around in Dust's client. If there are pieces and parts that aren't used, I'll guarantee you that they're not used on the Eve side of things either.
Planetary Conquest Interaction:
If you do not provide the proper tools for alliances to cooperate with each other in PC, they will simply find workarounds. Not providing cooperation mechanics in PC for alliances only serves to punish smaller entities. Big alliances with tons of resources will be able to justify and effect workarounds at the cost of large down payments of resources in terms of both manpower and ISK. Smaller groups don't have that luxury.
These are obvious features that will just be worked around in their absence:
Add clones to other corps' districts if they are in your alliance
Open contracts, attacking and defending, for other alliance corporations to fill
Item trading should increase interactivity between Dust corporations within an alliance, and it would be great to see the alliance hangar concept implemented on the Dust side.
Needless to say that there needs to be more interaction between Dust and Eve added on all levels of gameplay. Even with the changes reported in the PC dev blog and on the PC Wiki page, interaction is slim to none. At best War Barge strikes should be removed while in PC, but something smacks me that this won't happen. Unless the PI bonuses are much better than anyone expects, you're not going to see many entities with the desire to hold both ground and space targets to the point of justifying having a stationary object in a hot zone on the Eve side.
Interaction between Dust and Eve has to be a crucial component of the next updates to both games. Yeah, everybody knows you've been going slow, but "So slow that nobody cares enough to notice when it's enough" is too slow.
I want everyone working on Dust 514 at CCP to take your thoughts that FPS gamers are somehow more disorganized than Eve players and don't need the same management tools, ball those thoughts up, and throw them so hard that they make it nearly to California before they drown in the ocean. As I've said before, the little suggestions constantly dropped by CCP on that front are condescending and downright wrong. If the fact that 2 of the 20 biggest alliances in New Eden are Dust-centric only 4 months after you put us on Tranquility isn't enough to convince you otherwise, I'm not really sure what will.
ONE UNIVERSE, ONE WAR
Your words, not mine.
TL;DR: With alliances and interaction, it's about time to get on the ball. "Wait and see" sounds a lot like "deal with how bad it is while we procrastinate". |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
447
|
Posted - 2013.04.20 05:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
First off I'm very appreciative that you took the time to put up a response, Fox.
One thing I want to get out of the way: My intent with the post was not to be demanding, or to indicate unrealistic development time frames for alliance features are the expectation. The content you guys have been willing to reveal out of Uprising before FanFest (substantial) is nothing less than awesome. Rather, the intent was to make sure that alliance features in Dust both aren't on the back burner nor swept to the side under the guise of "waiting for more info", especially as far as the patch after Uprising is concerned.
So here's the meat of it:
It's great to have alliance chat and alliance mail dropping with the next build, and I'm sure they took some significant effort to work out...but I can't believe that it was THAT big of a deal. When the E3 build first introduced chat channels there was a Wednesday before the then weekend-only beta periods where the server went live for a small amount of time. We got reports that alliance chat did exist in Dust; it was removed later in the week. Good to have it back, and I really appreciate it. Let the account show, though...
CCP FoxFour wrote:I am sorry you think we feel that way. We don't. Corporations and alliances are the reason EVE is still around after 10 years. It is not just about organization it is about building relationships, friendships, and just building something together. It is these strong social bonds that have kept EVE alive for so long. We have people come to Fanfest who have not played the game in years. Trust me, we know how important they are to you guys.
Ever since the first marketing materials started circulating for Dust, there has been more than a hint of condescension about FPS players' ability to organize. For quite a long while the CCP tagline was hard set on "Eve players will strategize and pay for contracts, while console players will just accept those." Have you ever heard one of Hilmar's favorite lines: "Eve players do the flying, while infantry does the dying." Really? A lot of the initial marketing seemed to be directed towards pulling one over on the whiners in the Eve community who would explode with baseless rage if Dust was going to upset the status quo in any way. More recently, comments like those on the Dust-Eve link livestream where CCP devs claimed that they were "shocked" by the size of some mercenary corporations had the same kind of edge.
Even though you might expect some of the nitty gritty of alliances to "work differently", the basic administration of an alliance whose members are corporations doesn't change, and can't change if you want Dust characters to fit appropriately in the drama of New Eden. Does anyone really care about giving out alliance hangar access from a Dust character? No. But we DO care about being able to join an alliance without having to pay $15/month.
CCP FoxFour wrote:I am really sorry we have gotten to the point that you feel we are procrastinating.
And while it doesn't feel like you're necessarily procrastinating where Uprising is concerned- nobody is accusing you of that- alliance features have to be a priority soon, and not even TM. When the official CCP word on the street is "We're waiting to see what happens", the subtext seems to read: "We're going to procrastinate long enough to push significant alliance support until the
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