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Azura25 Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.04.14 16:41:00 - [1] - Quote New player here, no background in FPS (pvp). Having played dust for two days I have given the game some opportunity to allow me to adapt to it, warm to it and to get to know the basic combat mechanics. Two days in and for new players or anyone thinking about starting in a similar position to myself I can provide some rookie issues and problems ( I appreciate it has probably all been said before). 1. The game has no nursery mode, room or function, as a new player you are treated exactly like someone who has excelled at elite FPS for 10 years, it is completely unforgiving. 2. Basic combat is horrendously difficult, aiming with no and basic skills is still virtually imposibble, with suggestions like practise will improve and skills will make it easier, making he situation more new player unfriendly. 3. Where is a new player pairing function? Where is the targeting range, weapon and squad training prior to jumping into combat with players who are obviously light years ahead in terms of ability and experience? 4. CCP made the same issues with EvE, it is notoriously difficult to retain new players, this game is no different, except it will also fail to attract and key transition players from to EvE to Dust. 5. The game would benefit from a lock to target button, even as a safe or nursery function, as without I died every time before my cursor could get near my opponent. Perhaps this is working as expected and what experienced FPS players are used to, but as a new game beta experience this was not enjoyable. Az
Presumably Inebriated The Generals EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.04.14 17:16:00 - [2] - Quote As someone who started playing two nights ago, I wanted to also say my perspective. I am semi-experienced with FPSes and console gaming in general, so my stances are slightly different. #1 Completely agreed with. #2 I somewhat agree with, but I've been able to still be a contributing team member. #3 Completely agreed. The first 24 hours sucked, until I got into a public chat of a corp I was thinking sounded good to join. As soon as I got into a squad with 3 others who had been playing for a while, the game was so much better. Not only could they help me get better, I also felt like I knew what we were trying to do. #4 As an Eve player coming to Dust, I agree, they need to do something like they did with the tutorial for Eve. Dust is like Eve was before they had the tutorials. A text screen is not a tutorial. #5 Eh, I'd personally want to stay away from aim assists in game. This one really does come down to practice in my opinion. My wife when she first started playing 3d first person games was HORRIBLE at aiming, whereas I've been playing them since they were first being written. However, her determination to beat those games led to her being pretty proficient at it.
Jedah McClintock McClintock's Mercs 7	Posted - 2013.04.14 20:26:00 - [3] - Quote True, even for a beta, the game does need more comprehensive ingame tutorial. Breaking down what things do what would be useful. At the very least, an option to read some of the descriptions in plain language. The game offering modes which are newbie friendly would be welcome features, but assist and such I am against cause it's like letting the game play itself.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 10	Posted - 2013.04.14 21:38:00 - [4] - Quote I'm actually going to start making a list of these forum topics. This game is scaring away new players like crazy and the most the vet players will say is, "Oh well! Keep trying!" from their elitist high horses. The vets seem to think that this is a game about skill, when actually your effectiveness in combat is super reliant on your gear and skill setup, much like an MMO game. I come from the opposite background -- I'm very experienced at FPS games and the first thing I noticed was that even though my tactics were superior (I predict enemy movements and attack first from an angle they don't anticipate), I was unable to do enough damage to capitalize on it. It was only when I learned where and how to adjust my skills that I became decent in combat. However, still to this day I will put rounds in an enemy only to watch them slowly turn towards me while soaking up damage and kill me with half a clip of a Duvolle assault rifle. The bottom line is that their gun is more powerful and their dropsuit has higher defense, which compensates for their lesser skill and/or tactical disadvantage. But like I said from the start, I'm going to start making a list of all of these new player posts in hopes that I can one day make a topic showing how the punishing learning curve of this game is not just a big problem, it is THE problem facing the future of Dust 514.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 50	Posted - 2013.04.14 21:42:00 - [5] - Quote I feel for you guys. Better tutorials and new player stuff would go a looooong way. In the meantime I guess you're inflating my K/DR.
Matakage WildCard Ninja Clan 10	Posted - 2013.04.15 00:24:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I feel for you guys. Better tutorials and new player stuff would go a looooong way. In the meantime I guess you're inflating my K/DR. And that's the heart of the issue. You vets like to keep quiet about the actual reason why you're winning (skills and better gear) while constantly reassuring the new players that they just need to keep trying harder while running around in [STARTER FIT] suits. LIES. STOP LYING TO THE KIDS SO YOU CAN KILL THEM EASIER. I say this over and over, but new players need to know it. This is the order you put your skill points in: Step 1: Better drop suit (stay alive) Step 2: Better gun (kill people) Step 3: Passive bonuses and dropsuit module upgrades
ladwar Dead Six Initiative 134	Posted - 2013.04.15 00:52:00 - [7] - Quote Matakage wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I feel for you guys. Better tutorials and new player stuff would go a looooong way. In the meantime I guess you're inflating my K/DR. And that's the heart of the issue. You vets like to keep quiet about the actual reason why you're winning (skills and better gear) while constantly reassuring the new players that they just need to keep trying harder while running around in [STARTER FIT] suits. LIES. STOP LYING TO THE KIDS SO YOU CAN KILL THEM EASIER. I say this over and over, but new players need to know it. This is the order you put your skill points in: Step 1: Better drop suit (stay alive) Step 2: Better gun (kill people) Step 3: Passive bonuses and dropsuit module upgrades lol... i run around with a type I logi suite with only militia gear on 70% of the time and 85% i do i end up in the top 5. would do better if i was an assault suit as my smg is my best friend when i don't run the logi suit. so gear is not an issue it comes down to skill and tutorials to help the newer players get used to the controls but at some time you have to let them to out to the sharks to learn the rest of the game on their own or its just a solo fps which would get boring. to new players i would say to you pick your role, know it and work on knowing it better. basic roles are: A: grunt(i like to shot stuff)- gear that is ideal. AR, MD, LR. suits Assault B: sniper( i hide from combat but kill things) TAR, LR, SR, maybe FG suits any C. medic(i stab my friends for points) injector, repair tools, nanohives suits Logi D. AV( i make things go boom) FG, swarm, flux or AV nades suits heavy assault E. scout (i like doing noncombat things) shotguns w/e helps suits scout F. HAV/dropship( i like to have lots of armor to protect me) this well.. is costly.. so read the forums to get an idea of it G. Heavy( i don't need to move much to kill things with my death cannons) hmg/ forge gun suit heavy just a few ideas and i can help anyone who would like to play any of the above roles better and those are just starting points and can be played around with till you find what best for your play style
Stevez WingYip Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.04.15 09:44:00 - [8] - Quote I am having a very similar problem to you. Although after playing for several days now, I am finally getting the hang of it. It's is a very unforgiving game and requires a lot of dedication from new players to get better. Especially with the hardcore fps players we have seen on there.
Michael Arck sephiroth clones 33	Posted - 2013.04.15 10:42:00 - [9] - Quote Yea it's a rough start. Depends on the mindset of the player. I took a couple of weeks off after I first created my character. I was getting killed every which way. But I couldn't stop thinking about the game so I dug in my heels and made myself learn. Yes it's a very unforgiving game but honestly, I like it that way. It has made me such a better player. Though I have some ways to go, I feel confident when I step onto the battlefield. But again, I would rather have the rough start instead of the hand holding/babying because the lessons learned are sustained better that way. And thanks to my corporation, Shadow Soldier and Tuffy Johnson...they have helped my transition as well.
Naedeus DUST University Ivy League 18	Posted - 2013.04.15 13:48:00 - [10] - Quote Stated this in another new player thread. But... I still feel your best option, at least for now to help squad up with people that know the game a bit more due to having played longer would to be to join a corporation that's new player friendly. Two that come to mind are both Bojo's School of the Trades (BSOTT) and Dust University. (D-UNI) Reading and getting advice on the forums will certainly help. But it's probably easier to squad up with people and let them help you via voice chat. If you do happen to start experimenting with dropsuits, I'd suggest using and buying militia gear before you begin expanding. That way you don't waste the skill points or ISK on something you don't want to use or can't use. Other than that, someone made a suggestion that it would probably be best to start off in a logistical dropsuit and stick with a clump of blueberries with a heavy or two in it. That way you can get use to knowing when to use cover and can provide your team with support until you feel like stepping into actual combat. EDIT: WELL... that certainly doesn't help my forum presence. Totally didn't notice you were in D-UNI until after I had posted. Hit me up in-game next time you're on and we can squad up. I'm more than willing to help you through basics. EDIT 2: Reading some of the stuff in regards to vets telling new players to stick with militia suits. I understand where you guys are coming from, but the only reason I suggest it is that if they are just starting out, they should at least try different militia fits before picking a main suit class and running with it. Yes a skill reset is coming up on May 6th, but... how many more of those will we get in the future? Best to know what you want to be as your primary before throwing away skill points in what can be considered useless skills.

Biven55 Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.04.15 18:59:00 - [11] - Quote Easily the most confusing game I have dropped into in a long time. I am by no means saying that twitch skills and tactics are unimportant, but if they are going to retain new players, they HAVE to find some way to teach them how the skills and equipment work. I was baffled the first few times I emptied a clip into another grunt and he won the fire fight. Now it makes sense. But at the time, I had no idea how shields and armor worked. I just saw it as AR versus AR, most hits should win. Granted, it is a beta. But they have to be careful not to turn-off the core group they are planning on selling to during the beta.
tobias Mauldin Northwind Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.04.15 20:23:00 - [12] - Quote I do believe that there should be some sort of rookie match capabilities (I will never forget my first tie playing Dust. I was confused, scared, and disoriented to no end). as for the auto lock not really as that is kind of an extreme crutch that would end up hurting more than helping anyone. I hadn't played any FPS games for at least three years and never played them that often but just practicing helps to alleviate that. they need some sort of in game tutorial because for the first week I played I didn't know shield from armor bar or really any of the mechanics in general. and maybe highlight the importance of roles and tactics (I don't know I'm throwing this stuff out there).
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation 150	Posted - 2013.04.15 22:08:00 - [13] - Quote I run beginner suits most of the time, and I go 10/3. Its not just equipment, although it helps. It really is the skills. That extra 5% damage can make all the difference.
0 Try Harder Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 235	Posted - 2013.04.15 23:24:00 - [14] - Quote Azura25 wrote: 5. The game would benefit from a lock to target button, even as a safe or nursery function, as without I died every time before my cursor could get near my opponent. ******* trolls.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 83	Posted - 2013.04.17 18:45:00 - [15] - Quote Drop suits should NOT REMOTELY be your first increase. Dumping SP and ISK into dropsuits when there are skills that give you more of an advantage doesnt make any sense. Focus on your core skills first, 25% armor and shield boost? Yes please. 15% handheld weapon damage? Yes please. 25% PG and CPU increase? YES PLEASE. These one time investments will increase your combat effeciency way more than upgrading to a higher teir suit. Why go to a proto suit when you dont have the skills to use the items needed to use up all the extra PG and CPU? And why upgrade to advanced when you can upgrade your core skills to make a standard suit have better stats than an advanced without those core skills?
Gorbin Calis Kinsho Swords Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.04.17 20:02:00 - [16] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Drop suits should NOT REMOTELY be your first increase. Dumping SP and ISK into dropsuits when there are skills that give you more of an advantage doesn't make any sense. Focus on your core skills first, 25% armor and shield boost? Yes please. 15% handheld weapon damage? Yes please. 25% PG and CPU increase? YES PLEASE. These one time investments will increase your combat efficiency way more than upgrading to a higher tier suit. Why go to a proto suit when you dont have the skills to use the items needed to use up all the extra PG and CPU? And why upgrade to advanced when you can upgrade your core skills to make a standard suit have better stats than an advanced without those core skills? I really agree mostly, I did spend some points personally into suits, but unless you really have a path you know you want to follow other skills are better in the beginning . I went with the skill for the assault suit because I wanted the loadout, but after talking a friend through the start of the game I have to agree with you the the other skills such as weaponry, field mechanics, etc are points better spent for most players. With the bonus from his upgraded skills and a little coaching my friend was able to come in at #6 and #5 in his second and third matches using militia gear (Forge gun and heavy suit with shield recharge and armor rep or assault rifle assault suit etc). Skills matter, also if what you are doing isnt working in the fight you are in swap loadouts. In his first match my buddy died several times trying to take an objective using the same loadout every time and it went badly. Swapped suits and he got 4 kills and one of them was a vet with a high tier gun. You can win even in the beginning you just have to be smart. And that dude with the HMG, put a grenade between his feet and double tap the corpse to be sure. Happy gaming guys
Otoky Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.04.17 22:17:00 - [17] - Quote Dust need a matchmaking system like in League of Legends. New players only play against another rookies at the same SP and gear lvl. Im afraid that Dust 514 will scear a lots of casual gamer because everytime they respawn a protsuit guy will duvall shoot in theyr face. Now when you are a beginer, you have to choice: - Sniper: Because in that way you have some chanse to help your team. Flank heavys, some headshoot or just find enemy snipers. Ohhhh, and the most important: maby in this way you dont die in every minute. - Supporter: You run around your team and pray to not being shoot cos in early lvl you will die in every accidentally hit bullet. Hope CCP has some plan and they will change the matchmaking system sidenote: english is not my native language and im still learning, so please grammar n@zis freak off
Ademnas Dhuretica Algintal Core Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.04.18 03:42:00 - [18] - Quote I've played many FPS games over the years on consoles and play the occasional MMO, even tried EVE for a bit but haven't had time to devote to it quite yet. I agree that DUST is unforgiving to new players and a foreign experience for many, but the challenge is becoming part of the fun. It's a reason to want to get better and establish some skill in a game that, so far, has captured a lot of my attention. I chose to stick with a Sniper loadout for now because the long range capability is nice and the skill upgrades do give a noticeable stability when aiming way out into the map. I also agree that a tutorial and/or vs. AI playlists would greatly help new players to adapt.
Snaps Tremor The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION 97	Posted - 2013.04.18 03:51:00 - [19] - Quote Matakage wrote: This is the order you put your skill points in: Step 1: Better drop suit (stay alive) Step 2: Better gun (kill people) Step 3: Passive bonuses and dropsuit module upgrades This is such fundamentally bad advice I can only assume it's a deliberate troll.
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 22	Posted - 2013.04.18 06:11:00 - [20] - Quote Yeah, even coming from a vast FPS background and on and off 5 EVE, I'll admit Dust is even more unforgiving than it's source. Everything you've listed are sound issues that shouldn't be ignored and should have been addressed in the past. Unlike EVE, there's no tutorial outside of "Here's how to buy a weapon, here's your character sheet, and this is the dropsuit fitting screen. Now go out there and kills stuff!" EVE literally holds your hand in the beginning and runs you through the motions of everything you have the potential to do in a safe "kiddie pool area" while splitting each aspect of the game amongst mission NPC that will teach your even more advanced tactics. After doing all these missions in EVE, I had a pretty good feel for the game and an idea of what to expect. In Dust, you learn by getting your arse kicked... repeatedly while padding experienced player's KDR. Even now, after playing since open beta, I'm still learning something new every day through trial and error... usually error. If this game fails because of the inability to attract new players and keep them interested, CCP will have no one to blame but themselves.



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