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Garrett Blacknova
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2410
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Posted - 2013.04.09 06:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:SMG 22 versus 31 AR and WIN! for AR.
Except that you're ignoring the fire rates, in which the SMG has an advantage, and the fact that the SMG is more CQC-friendly and also less impacted by lag because of the spread. It's the same principle that makes a Shotgun more effective in CQC, but taken to less of an extreme. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2411
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Posted - 2013.04.09 07:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:SMG 22 versus 31 AR and WIN! for AR. Except that you're ignoring the fire rates, in which the SMG has an advantage, and the fact that the SMG is more CQC-friendly and also less impacted by lag because of the spread. It's the same principle that makes a Shotgun more effective in CQC, but taken to less of an extreme. Fire rates? At the SMG optimal 25 to 30 m versus an AR: Most SMG rounds are going to MISS Most AR rounds are going to HIT DEAD SMG user.
Assuming equal skill at aim and no skill at evading fire from either player.
Also assuming no ADS with either. I can land consistent hits with intermittent headshots at 20 - 25m with my SMG.
If you're in actual CQC - which, as mentioned, is where the SMG does best - then you're NOT going to have an advantage trying to hit targets with the AR, and the SMG will damage you faster than your AR damages them. I can use a Toxin SMG on a Dragonfly suit with no damage mods and gun down AR Assaults using Prototype weapons faster than they can kill me. In the right scenario, SMG wins. If you're using it wrong, AR slaughters it.
Moral of story: lrn2SMG |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2412
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rupture Reaperson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Assuming equal skill at aim and no skill at evading fire from either player.
Also assuming no ADS with either. I can land consistent hits with intermittent headshots at 20 - 25m with my SMG.
If you're in actual CQC - which, as mentioned, is where the SMG does best - then you're NOT going to have an advantage trying to hit targets with the AR, and the SMG will damage you faster than your AR damages them. I can use a Toxin SMG on a Dragonfly suit with no damage mods and gun down AR Assaults using Prototype weapons faster than they can kill me. In the right scenario, SMG wins. If you're using it wrong, AR slaughters it.
Moral of story: lrn2SMG
There was already a consensus on other thread that the Duvolle outdps (is that a word?) a proto SMG at CQC unless you use a flux, not by much (around 0.13 DPS) so... nay. There is a reason why I forced myself away from ARs, since I wanted an honest KDR for myself, but yeah, I tried the exile with just Weaponry V and AR Ops at 1, blitzed from a 24-4 to 32-1. And I know my smg, used them 90% of the time last build. I always got easy headshots on people and I couldnt lay my finger on why, and well OP makes sense. If you can hold your ground on CQC with an SMG vs a same tier AR, says more about the player and less bout the gun, more power to you, but your point its skewed. Also lets face it, a decent AR player its gonna ADS at least 45% of the time
CQC is about EVASION more than straight damage, and the SMG is more effective as a counter to enemy evasive actions than the AR.
Also, you're not accounting for the fact that the SMG is still a Sidearm, you can bring Shotgun or AR with your SMG. You can't bring two ARs or a Shotgun/AR combo (except on the Black Eagle suit). That in itself is an advantage to the SMG.
Green Living wrote:Because 75 percent of the population of New Eden uses the AR.
And how many non-Logi AR fittings have SMGs vs. Scrambler Pistols as their SIdearm, do you suppose? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2413
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Posted - 2013.04.09 10:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rupture Reaperson wrote:Also comes into "why do you need to evade in CQC?" the answer would be "If I dont, that AR its gonna outdps me" Also consider that some AR have huge clip sizes, fairly close to some smgs.
Regardless of weapons, two SMGs, two ARs, damage modded GEK-38 vs. no-mods on an Exile, if you're in CQC and only one of you is playing the evasion game, that player will win more often than not.
If an enemy's SMG deals more damage to me in 0.5 seconds of CQC than their AR dealt in the preceding 2 seconds, I'm inclined to believe the SMG is the better CQC weapon. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2413
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Posted - 2013.04.09 11:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rupture Reaperson wrote:Again you are harkoning back into skills an personal tactics, of course if one evades on CQC and the other doesnt there is a easy winner, thats not the point. What happens if neither evade or both evade at a similar level?
In CQC, when both are evading, the SMG has a better chance of hitting with each shot, and each miss is less of a reduciton in dps because of the nature of how CQC happens.
Quote:it comes down to gun vs gun, and the AR wins, either by range or dps alone, when it should be a toss up (range OR dps), I could understand that the AR is the only gun with a "vs shield" bonus, I could understand that the gun can do well in all ranges, hell even if it didnt had spread I could live with that... but not all 3 simultaneously.
If you're looking at POTENTIAL DPS, then the AR wins, if you're looking at practical scenarios with both players evading, the SMG will put out damage faster than the AR. |
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