DUST Search - Why it is scientifically impossible to out-strafe someone's gunfire:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

well the fact that straffing speed are lame since codex isnt news. Though i appreciate the work.

Quote:

Results shown are the amount of time taken to cross a 25 meter distance.

Scout: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 seconds
Assault/Logistics/Heavy: ----------------------------------------------------------- 8 seconds
Heavy with +10% mass from Complex Armor Plating: -------------------- 10 seconds

So now, can anyone give me a good justification to why HEAVIES and ASSAULT have the same native strafe speed when their nativement movement stats are very different ? That doesnt make any sense and it's responsible for many QQ and nerfs, that led to many new QQ and nerfs etc...

Same goes with turning speed using a HMG. And to the persons saying "that doesnt include controller sensitivity", changing sensitivity wont alter the relative difference between suits and weapons regarding turning speed.

I wondered that myself. Considering that the Scout had it's strafe speed matched with the Assault dropsuit (until a recent "fix" that made it a bit faster) there's still not much going for the Scout and while Cloaking may help, it's not going to bring back the feel of the CQC Scout. My issue is that I feel that Cloaking isn't going to be Scout specific.

Suffice to say, considering the fact that Wolfman stated:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear.

The return of the CQC Scout is looking pretty grim. They're currently -okay- but it's really a situation/circumstance sort of thing. If you miss with your shotgun (something that happens often with Hitbox Lag/Lag Compensation, something I'll touch up on in a future post) you've just given them all the reason in the world to turn around and light you up, so there's not much room for error.

But it works both ways I suppose. I still sort of wish that the Scout was just... faster... Something to give it an edge.

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Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1132	Posted - 2013.04.04 03:34:00 - [1] - Quote NOTE: DO NOT ANSWER THE BELOW QUESTIONS, THEY ARE PROVIDED AS A BASIS FOR THE THEORY This theory started out mostly as an attempt to answer a systematic list of questions: 1.) Is there a "mass system" in play that reduces turn/movement/sprint speed based on the mass of the dropsuit? 2.) If so, do modules that increase mass (Armor Plating) have any affect on the turn/movement/sprint speed? 3.) If not, is the "Mass System" more of a proverbial or metaphorical impact - I.E: are the numbers pre-dictated by the suit? 4.) In the event of a Mass System being in play, does the mass increase of a dropsuit's modules have any affect on it's turn speed? This lead to a series of tests involving using every weapon available on every suit available. All suits and weapons were conducted at Militia levels, save for weapons that a militia variant was unavailable. In which case, a Standard variant was substituted. Tests were conducted at a total of five times per selection and averaged out, rounded to the nearest whole second. The results showed that there is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between the Scout/Assault/Logistics suit. BASE is the dropsuit's turn speed -WITHOUT- using ADS (Aiming Down the Sights). The WEAPON results are -WITH- using ADS. Results are arranged from fastest to the slowest turn speed. Results are shown as the AMOUNT OF TIME to achieve a FULL ROTATION. Scout/Assault/Logistics Turn Speed: Base Speed ----------------- (2 seconds) Assault Rifle ---------------- (6 seconds) Mass Driver ----------------- (6 seconds) Scrambler Pistol ---------- (7 seconds) Submachine Gun ---------- (10 seconds) Shotgun ---------------------- (10 seconds) Laser Rifle ------------------- (14 seconds) Sniper Rifle ------------------ (18 seconds) Heavy Turn Speed: Base Speed ----------------- (3 seconds) +1 seconds Assault Rifle ---------------- (8 seconds) +2 seconds Mass Driver ----------------- (9 seconds) +2 seconds Scrambler Pistol ---------- (9 seconds) +2 seconds Heavy Machine Gun ------ (10 seconds) N/A Submachine Gun ---------- (14 seconds) +4 seconds Shotgun ---------------------- (14 seconds) +4 seconds Laser Rifle ------------------- (19 seconds) +5 seconds Sniper Rifle ------------------ (23 seconds) +5 seconds With these results in mind, it is (numerically) possible, and entirely plausible that a Heavy with a Heavy Machine Gun could turn (while aiming down the sights) as fast as a Scout with a Shotgun (who was also aiming down the sights). The next test was to see if applying Mass Increasing modules like the Armor Plating affected the turn speed in any way. Applying Complex Armor Plating (+10% mass) had an impact on the turn speed. Base Speed ----------------- (NOT TESTED) Assault Rifle ---------------- (9 seconds) +1 second Mass Driver ----------------- (10 seconds) +1 second Scrambler Pistol ---------- (NOT TESTED) Submachine Gun ---------- (15 seconds) +1 second Shotgun ---------------------- (15 seconds) +1 second Laser Rifle ------------------- (21 seconds) +2 seconds Sniper Rifle ------------------ (NOT TESTED) With these results, we can safely say that increasing the mass of your dropsuit (at least on a Heavy) will affect your turn speed. This led to a new question: 1.) Does the Mass System affect the Strafe Speed of a dropsuit, not just it's turn/movement/sprint speed? 2.) If not, to what degree are the results pre-dictated? The next test involved all four dropsuits strafing at a distance of 25 meters to a Supply Depot over four separate tests, with the averages rounded off to the nearest whole second. Results shown are the amount of time taken to cross a 25 meter distance. Scout: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 seconds Assault/Logistics/Heavy: ----------------------------------------------------------- 8 seconds Heavy with +10% mass from Complex Armor Plating: -------------------- 10 seconds Okay. So this shows that there IS a difference in how fast each Dropsuit strafes, and even goes so far as to show that the Mass System does hamper your strafe speed if you apply armor plating. But what does this all mean, Aeon? What does it matter? What this means is that it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO OUT-STRAFE YOUR TARGET - no matter what suit you/they have, no matter what gun you/they have, no matter if either of you are Aiming Down the Sights, no matter what your fitting is, no matter what range. It is simply an impossibility. How do you figure? Consider this. A Scout with no modules attached can strafe 25 meters in 6 seconds. Break that down and you have about 4.16 meters per second. That's not very fast, but it is faster than everyone else. Now, assuming the absolute WORST SCENARIO: A Heavy with a single Complex Armor Plate and a Heavy Machine Gun... At a distance of 25 meters (our Radius) the Circumference would be 78.54 meters. That's a long distance. At a distance of 25 meters, you could travel a full circle around the Heavy at 37.76 seconds. In that time he could Aim Down the Sights of the Heavy Machine Gun and he could turn 4 FULL CIRCLES. At a distance of 10 meters, you could travel a full circle around the Heavy at 15.10 seconds. In that time he could Aim Down the Sights of the Heavy Machine Gun and he could turn almost 2 FULL CIRCLES. And that's just Aiming Down the Sights. Even at danger close ranges (2.5 METERS) ANY SUIT can turn fast enough to fire on you, with ANY WEAPON, with ANY FITTING. POST LIMIT REACHED
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 139	Posted - 2013.04.04 03:42:00 - [2] - Quote This thread doesn't take into account controller sensitivity (as its important because it is a variable) nor does it contain any mention of kenetic modules. Of course you could say 'its about him strafing' not 'sprinting' but if your able to run 10 m/s because your using kenetic modules who wouldn't try it? lol nova knifers are hilarious when they fit a bunch of these things on!
Callidus Vanus BetaMax. CRONOS. 6	Posted - 2013.04.04 03:45:00 - [3] - Quote You sir, have way to much time on your hands.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1142	Posted - 2013.04.04 03:55:00 - [4] - Quote you arent out strafing the bullets. You're out strafing the persons ability to keep steady aim on you. which in turn lets you avoid getting shot. There you go. Your math has now been rendered useless. I hope you are happy with your self now.
Ech0 0ne Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.04.04 04:18:00 - [5] - Quote im impressed good job
Fellsinner Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.04.04 04:23:00 - [6] - Quote Ya I never try to out strafe anyone in the true sense, even a heavy. But, that does not mean you shouldn't strafe. Strafing still can throw the enemy off aim, making it still a viable strategy.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 437	Posted - 2013.04.04 04:25:00 - [7] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: you arent out strafing the bullets. You're out strafing the persons ability to keep steady aim on you. which in turn lets you avoid getting shot. There you go. Your math has now been rendered useless. I hope you are happy with your self now. And yes, I did not read your thread. QFT
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 446	Posted - 2013.04.04 04:27:00 - [8] - Quote The armor doesn't add mass, it reduces speed. Mass also doesn't affect speed, in real life or in game. Mass affects acceleration. Fill the back seat of a car with concrete and it won't win drag race, because it accelerates to slow, given enough time it would top out at the same speed, other then difference in drag from sitting lower to road that could make the car with concrete faster. Top Speed cars at Bonneville add weight to help stability, they have plenty of distance to build up speed to ignore the acceleration penalty. Mass affecting inertia could be measured by measuring the difference between 1rst rotation time from standing still and 2nd rotation time without stopping. Armour plates also affect jump height, some barriers I can clear with with a fit can't be cleared with a plate added. Either speed reduction affects jump height stat and speed or jump height is a formula with speed as a variable.
ReGnUM Public Relations Imperfects Public Relations 94	Posted - 2013.04.04 05:13:00 - [9] - Quote OP EPIC FAIL ... On so many levels. This thread once again proves why general discussion only hurts new players.
Protoman Is God Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2013.04.04 05:18:00 - [10] - Quote http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1353/18/1353186299609.gif

Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1030	Posted - 2013.04.04 05:40:00 - [11] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: you arent out strafing the bullets. You're out strafing the persons ability to keep steady aim on you. which in turn lets you avoid getting shot. There you go. Your math has now been rendered useless. I hope you are happy with your self now. And yes, I did not read your thread. I started to read...then I scrolled down to see how long it went on for, and wow. Props to whoever read this. I mean no offense to the OP, but man!... put a TL;DR version.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 417	Posted - 2013.04.04 06:22:00 - [12] - Quote +1 for the testing and calculations. However -1 because this does not mean you can't out strafe people's gunfire. Your testing simply stated you can't circle strafe a person.
Mithridates VI Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 594	Posted - 2013.04.04 06:32:00 - [13] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Your testing simply stated you can't circle strafe a person if you only use sideways movement. If you move forwards and sideways, or diagonally as we call it in the business, a scout can circle a heavy.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 446	Posted - 2013.04.04 06:38:00 - [14] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: The armor doesn't add mass, it reduces speed. Mass also doesn't affect speed, in real life or in game. Mass affects acceleration. Fill the back seat of a car with concrete and it won't win drag race, because it accelerates to slow, given enough time it would top out at the same speed, other then difference in drag from sitting lower to road that could make the car with concrete faster. Top Speed cars at Bonneville add weight to help stability, they have plenty of distance to build up speed to ignore the acceleration penalty. Mass affecting inertia could be measured by measuring the difference between 1rst rotation time from standing still and 2nd rotation time without stopping. Armour plates also affect jump height, some barriers I can clear with with a fit can't be cleared with a plate added. Either speed reduction affects jump height stat and speed or jump height is a formula with speed as a variable. That has to be one of the most ignorant understandings of mass v speed I have ever read. Force=mass x velocity The more mass something has, the more force is required to accelerate it to a given speed. The less mass something has, the less the force required to accelerate it to a given speed. Simple and easy. For a given amount of force, the less the mass it is applied to, the higher the speed that will result. The more the mass to which it is applied, the lower the speed that will result. It's just that simple. You completely forgot to factor in total energy output. Put on a 200pound backpack and tell me you could run as fast as without it. Mass affects speed because unless you increase total energy output your top speed will be slower. If the car does not increase its energy output IE FORCE it cannot go as fast as if it had less mass. the engine is the limiting factor, once and maximum energy output if you started adding mass it would go slower. The world is now dumber having read and believed your statement Read a book!
Smoky Fingers THE DOLLARS 8	Posted - 2013.04.04 06:38:00 - [15] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Your testing simply stated you can't circle strafe a person. bingo! +1. No such thing as a circle strafe; maybe in perfect world conditions, it's more of like a really whack ellipse strafe. YFW when you open up the map, zoom in, and realize your teammates are strafing in a really whack ellipse manner.
Sundar Vicett Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group 4	Posted - 2013.04.04 10:59:00 - [16] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: The armor doesn't add mass, it reduces speed. Mass also doesn't affect speed, in real life or in game. Mass affects acceleration. Fill the back seat of a car with concrete and it won't win drag race, because it accelerates to slow, given enough time it would top out at the same speed, other then difference in drag from sitting lower to road that could make the car with concrete faster. Top Speed cars at Bonneville add weight to help stability, they have plenty of distance to build up speed to ignore the acceleration penalty. Mass affecting inertia could be measured by measuring the difference between 1rst rotation time from standing still and 2nd rotation time without stopping. Armour plates also affect jump height, some barriers I can clear with with a fit can't be cleared with a plate added. Either speed reduction affects jump height stat and speed or jump height is a formula with speed as a variable. That has to be one of the most ignorant understandings of mass v speed I have ever read. Force=mass x velocity The more mass something has, the more force is required to accelerate it to a given speed. The less mass something has, the less the force required to accelerate it to a given speed. Simple and easy. For a given amount of force, the less the mass it is applied to, the higher the speed that will result. The more the mass to which it is applied, the lower the speed that will result. It's just that simple. You completely forgot to factor in total energy output. Put on a 200pound backpack and tell me you could run as fast as without it. Mass affects speed because unless you increase total energy output your top speed will be slower. If the car does not increase its energy output IE FORCE it cannot go as fast as if it had less mass. the engine is the limiting factor, once the engine/car has reached maximum energy output if you started adding mass it would go slower. The world is now dumber having read and believed your statement Read a book! This
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 403	Posted - 2013.04.04 11:10:00 - [17] - Quote Callidus Vanus wrote: You sir, have way to much time on your hands. Took the words right out of my mouth. Good stuff but a little over the top no?
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 410	Posted - 2013.04.04 11:23:00 - [18] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Force=mass x velocity Hate to correct you, as everything else in that statement was right, but it's not F=MV. It's F=MA.
Beld Errmon Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 556	Posted - 2013.04.04 11:25:00 - [19] - Quote I wonder how much meth went into producing this dribble.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 466	Posted - 2013.04.04 13:02:00 - [20] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: The armor doesn't add mass, it reduces speed. Mass also doesn't affect speed, in real life or in game. Mass affects acceleration. Fill the back seat of a car with concrete and it won't win drag race, because it accelerates to slow, given enough time it would top out at the same speed, other then difference in drag from sitting lower to road that could make the car with concrete faster. Top Speed cars at Bonneville add weight to help stability, they have plenty of distance to build up speed to ignore the acceleration penalty. Mass affecting inertia could be measured by measuring the difference between 1rst rotation time from standing still and 2nd rotation time without stopping. Armour plates also affect jump height, some barriers I can clear with with a fit can't be cleared with a plate added. Either speed reduction affects jump height stat and speed or jump height is a formula with speed as a variable. That has to be one of the most ignorant understandings of mass v speed I have ever read. Force=mass x velocity The more mass something has, the more force is required to accelerate it to a given speed. The less mass something has, the less the force required to accelerate it to a given speed. Simple and easy. For a given amount of force, the less the mass it is applied to, the higher the speed that will result. The more the mass to which it is applied, the lower the speed that will result. It's just that simple. You completely forgot to factor in total energy output. Put on a 200pound backpack and tell me you could run as fast as without it. Mass affects speed because unless you increase total energy output your top speed will be slower. If the car does not increase its energy output IE FORCE it cannot go as fast as if it had less mass. the engine is the limiting factor, once the engine/car has reached maximum energy output if you started adding mass it would go slower. The world is now dumber having read and believed your statement Read a book! You might wanna try reading a book too - i suggest Pricipia Mathematica. It's from the year 1687 but it's still millenia ahead of your thinking. P.S. Please send me assembly instructions for your perpetual motion machine.

Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 773	Posted - 2013.04.04 13:34:00 - [21] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: I wonder how much meth went into producing this dribble. Not enough apparently.
Schalac 17 D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 6	Posted - 2013.04.04 20:55:00 - [22] - Quote Why circle strafe in a FPS when it is so much more effective to zig zag or umpa-walk?
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 466	Posted - 2013.04.04 23:03:00 - [23] - Quote These are valid experimental results and worth a shitload more than all the pontificating going on in this thread. The value of empirical results like these is that it allows us to eliminate a possible source of uncertainty and focus our attention on a reduced subset of a larger problem. In this case, the implication is that effective strafe is attributable to two sources: 1) player characteristics(reaction time, predictive model, manual skills) and 2) network/server issues(lag, a simple word for a complex phenomenon, hit detection, etc.). The next generation of experiments should address lag, a much tougher nut to crack.
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1138	Posted - 2013.04.05 06:48:00 - [24] - Quote So, rather than jumping the gun like I usually do and responding to every thread I decided to lurk for a bit and see where it goes. And my response to you all is this (also included is the TL;DR version): You can't outstrafe someone's gunfire or their "tracking" speed. This is an Eve Online tactic that is widely used called Skirmish Warfare. You either have to distance yourself to a point where you are out of their effective range, or be able to move faster than they can "track" you. In this case, it is impossible to do that by going in one direction. Reason being is simply because every dropsuit can turn faster than you can physically move, even at extremely close ranges. You can theoretically "out-strafe" someone's gunfire by "zig-zag" or "circle" strafing (as these are the most commonly used methods) however BOTH of which would require that you - at least once - have to cross into their stream of gunfire. Why does this matter? As a Scout, despite having such high agility and speed, you are almost inevitably going to die. How do you figure, Aeon? A scout has - with all skills at level 5 - about 146 shields and 112 armor. This means that it's EHP (effective hit points) is 258. Consider this. I can technically out-run a Heavy's turn speed if I'm close enough, but in order to do so I have to sprint. I can't strafe. Why is this a problem? Because I can't fire back. I could technically sprint circles around him but given that his turn speed (without ADS) is 3 seconds, it's going to be insanely difficult for me to sprint to his backside and then open up on him before he has an opportunity to fire back. Which means that I have to risk (in order to fire back) strafing. This is an issue because the Heavy Machine Gun pumps out about 528 DPS (and, for the record, that's the standard variant with no skills attached). Meaning that he could kill me in half a second's worth of bullets. And that's assuming that I'm in the best position to out-maneuver him, and he's in the worst position to track me. To the person that said "you didn't take into account sensitivity", I have this to say: My sensitivity is at 40. Even then, sensitivity has nothing to do with it as Dropsuits have hard-coded turn speeds based on Mass. A person with a sensitivity setting of 100 will still only be able to turn as fast as their dropsuit will allow them. To the person who said "Mass doesn't affect Speed, in real life or in-game": It does affect VELOCITY, where as SPEED is technically VELOCITY in this case. While that logic does apply in Space, on the ground (where gravity has influence) your mass most definitely will hamper your Velocity. The more mass something has, the more force is required to accelerate it to a given speed. This holds true in Dust 514 as increasing the mass (as can be clearly shown in my test results) reduces not only movement/sprint speed but also turn speed. Try putting on some armor plating and watch your movement/sprint speed go down on your fitting screen. EVEN IF YOU WERE CORRECT (which I am not at all saying that you are) then why are the test results different after adding +10% mass from the Complex Armor Plating? Don't believe me, go see for yourself. Put some armor plates on and check your before/after turn speed.
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1138	Posted - 2013.04.05 06:50:00 - [25] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: These are valid experimental results and worth a shitload more than all the pontificating going on in this thread. The value of empirical results like these is that it allows us to eliminate a possible source of uncertainty and focus our attention on a reduced subset of a larger problem. In this case, the implication is that effective strafe is attributable to two sources: 1) player characteristics(reaction time, predictive model, manual skills) and 2) network/server issues(lag, a simple word for a complex phenomenon, hit detection, etc.). The next generation of experiments should address lag, a much tougher nut to crack. I can -try- (keyword there) to influence my own personal lag by running a bunch of downloads while I play, but this will have to wait for a later date when I am not overwhelmed with work (contradictory to my having the test results in the first place, I know =P)
Xender17 Oblivion S.G.X 16	Posted - 2013.04.05 07:46:00 - [26] - Quote ....OMG.... N/A means no answer. I now see the truth of the universe.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1269	Posted - 2013.04.05 07:59:00 - [27] - Quote well the fact that straffing speed are lame since codex isnt news. Though i appreciate the work. Quote: Results shown are the amount of time taken to cross a 25 meter distance. Scout: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 seconds Assault/Logistics/Heavy: ----------------------------------------------------------- 8 seconds Heavy with +10% mass from Complex Armor Plating: -------------------- 10 seconds So now, can anyone give me a good justification to why HEAVIES and ASSAULT have the same native strafe speed when their nativement movement stats are very different ? That doesnt make any sense and it's responsible for many QQ and nerfs, that led to many new QQ and nerfs etc... Same goes with turning speed using a HMG. And to the persons saying "that doesnt include controller sensitivity", changing sensitivity wont alter the relative difference between suits and weapons regarding turning speed. Quote: Scout/Assault/Logistics Turn Speed: Base Speed ----------------- (2 seconds) Heavy Turn Speed: Base Speed ----------------- (3 seconds) +1 seconds Here's another problem that led to many others. IF heavies are supposed to be massive bullet suckers and damage dealer. , there cannot be so little difference in movement, strafe and turn speed compared to lighter suit class.. Especially with KBM being autorised. Thanks to all those who cried about "Dust Dancing QQ, nerf strafe speed i cant aim" ............
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1138	Posted - 2013.04.05 08:47:00 - [28] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: well the fact that straffing speed are lame since codex isnt news. Though i appreciate the work. Quote: Results shown are the amount of time taken to cross a 25 meter distance. Scout: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 seconds Assault/Logistics/Heavy: ----------------------------------------------------------- 8 seconds Heavy with +10% mass from Complex Armor Plating: -------------------- 10 seconds So now, can anyone give me a good justification to why HEAVIES and ASSAULT have the same native strafe speed when their nativement movement stats are very different ? That doesnt make any sense and it's responsible for many QQ and nerfs, that led to many new QQ and nerfs etc... Same goes with turning speed using a HMG. And to the persons saying "that doesnt include controller sensitivity", changing sensitivity wont alter the relative difference between suits and weapons regarding turning speed. I wondered that myself. Considering that the Scout had it's strafe speed matched with the Assault dropsuit (until a recent "fix" that made it a bit faster) there's still not much going for the Scout and while Cloaking may help, it's not going to bring back the feel of the CQC Scout. My issue is that I feel that Cloaking isn't going to be Scout specific. Suffice to say, considering the fact that Wolfman stated: CCP Wolfman wrote: This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear. The return of the CQC Scout is looking pretty grim. They're currently -okay- but it's really a situation/circumstance sort of thing. If you miss with your shotgun (something that happens often with Hitbox Lag/Lag Compensation, something I'll touch up on in a future post) you've just given them all the reason in the world to turn around and light you up, so there's not much room for error. But it works both ways I suppose. I still sort of wish that the Scout was just... faster... Something to give it an edge.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 467	Posted - 2013.04.05 13:46:00 - [29] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: well the fact that straffing speed are lame since codex isnt news. Though i appreciate the work. Quote: Results shown are the amount of time taken to cross a 25 meter distance. Scout: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6 seconds Assault/Logistics/Heavy: ----------------------------------------------------------- 8 seconds Heavy with +10% mass from Complex Armor Plating: -------------------- 10 seconds So now, can anyone give me a good justification to why HEAVIES and ASSAULT have the same native strafe speed when their nativement movement stats are very different ? That doesnt make any sense and it's responsible for many QQ and nerfs, that led to many new QQ and nerfs etc... Same goes with turning speed using a HMG. And to the persons saying "that doesnt include controller sensitivity", changing sensitivity wont alter the relative difference between suits and weapons regarding turning speed. I wondered that myself. Considering that the Scout had it's strafe speed matched with the Assault dropsuit (until a recent "fix" that made it a bit faster) there's still not much going for the Scout and while Cloaking may help, it's not going to bring back the feel of the CQC Scout. My issue is that I feel that Cloaking isn't going to be Scout specific. Suffice to say, considering the fact that Wolfman stated: CCP Wolfman wrote: This item is going to be a real game changer, particularly for Scout dropsuits which have been screaming out for stealth gear. The return of the CQC Scout is looking pretty grim. They're currently -okay- but it's really a situation/circumstance sort of thing. If you miss with your shotgun (something that happens often with Hitbox Lag/Lag Compensation, something I'll touch up on in a future post) you've just given them all the reason in the world to turn around and light you up, so there's not much room for error. But it works both ways I suppose. I still sort of wish that the Scout was just... faster... Something to give it an edge. Apologies for going a bit off-topic, but I would LUV to see the effectiveness of the cloaking device related to the mass(or surface area) of the thing it was trying to cloak.


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