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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
119
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
-Costs nothing.
-Can easily destroy stuff that costs something.
-Zero risk, full reward.
-Goes entirely against the spirit of New Eden, and every basic principle in Eve.
Discuss.  |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
745
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
BPOs /Thread |
hydraSlav's
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
20
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:-Goes entirely against the spirit of New Eden, and every basic principle in Eve. Discuss.
Incorrect, in EvE, when you dock to a station in pod, you get a free ship (with a gun) given to you (out of pity by the station manager  )
You can have as many of those free ships as many times as you would dock in a pod
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Drake435
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
32
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Militia gear requires higher CPU/PG and/or other negatives like reduced ammo, clip, or reload time. Normally, it doesn't take much effort to kill a MLT-fitted player but there are instances where a MLT player will finish you off at the most random of times.
It's meant to cost nothing so you can make an ISK profit however, you get reduced survivability and damage output. You will be cannon fodder for advanced and proto players.
Strangely, I don't notice much of a difference between standard and militia-fitted dropsuits. All are cannon fodder.
EDIT: I forgot to mention.....BPO-only fittings..... |
Geth Massredux
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ha I started EVE trial and got a free ship that cost nothing.
Move along merc's. Nothing to see here... |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Geth Massredux wrote:Ha I started EVE trial and got a free ship that cost nothing.
Move along merc's. Nothing to see here...
Wrong.
You are risking your pod/clone, which costs money to replace. Failure to replace your grade of clone results in lost SP upon death.
So flying around in your newbie ship forever will eventually bite you in the ass. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
747
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Geth Massredux wrote:Ha I started EVE trial and got a free ship that cost nothing.
Move along merc's. Nothing to see here... Wrong. You are risking your pod/clone, which costs money to replace. Failure to replace your grade of clone results in lost SP upon death. So flying around in your newbie ship forever will eventually bite you in the ass.
Clones in PC will cost your entire corp, who cares if there's no risk in instant battles? I mean besides tryhards running proto. |
Nemo Bluntz
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
HAHAHA
I GET IT! YOU'RE BEING SARCASTIC!!!! CAPS LOCK LOL
 |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:HAHAHA I GET IT! YOU'RE BEING SARCASTIC!!!! CAPS LOCK LOL
or.... AM I?! 
Sloth9230 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Geth Massredux wrote:Ha I started EVE trial and got a free ship that cost nothing.
Move along merc's. Nothing to see here... Wrong. You are risking your pod/clone, which costs money to replace. Failure to replace your grade of clone results in lost SP upon death. So flying around in your newbie ship forever will eventually bite you in the ass. Clones in PC will cost your entire corp, who cares if there's no risk in instant battles? I mean besides tryhards running proto.
I don't have any planets now. I think our corp is pretty alive.
Drake435 wrote:Militia gear requires higher CPU/PG and/or other negatives like reduced ammo, clip, or reload time. Normally, it doesn't take much effort to kill a MLT-fitted player but there are instances where a MLT player will finish you off at the most random of times.
It's meant to cost nothing so you can make an ISK profit however, you get reduced survivability and damage output. You will be cannon fodder for advanced and proto players.
Strangely, I don't notice much of a difference between standard and militia-fitted dropsuits. All are cannon fodder.
EDIT: I forgot to mention.....BPO-only fittings.....
I just ran around punking protos in my untrained militia assault frontline starter kit. All it requires is that I see them before they see me. This is hardly an uncommon occurance.
The point is, there is no incentive to run anything higher than a starter kit. Victory is not rewarded, so why risk assets? MCC AFK'rs use the same logic. I just get to have more fun than they do, because I'm ruining someones day by costing them fake space money they may have acquired from the use of real money.
Dust is broken. Perhaps they should consider fixing the most basic PUG mode before they start messing with the part of the game that actually matters? |
James Thraxton
The Exemplars
106
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Posted - 2013.04.03 02:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
hydraSlav's wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:-Goes entirely against the spirit of New Eden, and every basic principle in Eve. Discuss. Incorrect, in EvE, when you dock to a station in pod, you get a free ship (with a gun) given to you (out of pity by the station manager ) You can have as many of those free ships as many times as you would dock in a pod
your argument is invalid
I've never seen an ibis wreck anything except itself. . . |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
747
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Victory is not rewarded, so why risk assets?
If anyone is spending more on a match than they'll actually gain, then they've already lost in my book. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
119
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Victory is not rewarded, so why risk assets?
If anyone is spending more on a match than they'll actually gain, then they've already lost in my book.
Entirely the point. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
32
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 02:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
Drake435 wrote:Militia gear requires higher CPU/PG and/or other negatives like reduced ammo, clip, or reload time. Normally, it doesn't take much effort to kill a MLT-fitted player but there are instances where a MLT player will finish you off at the most random of times.
It's meant to cost nothing so you can make an ISK profit however, you get reduced survivability and damage output. You will be cannon fodder for advanced and proto players.
Strangely, I don't notice much of a difference between standard and militia-fitted dropsuits. All are cannon fodder.
EDIT: I forgot to mention.....BPO-only fittings.....
I just ran around punking protos in my untrained militia assault frontline starter kit. All it requires is that I see them before they see me. This is hardly an uncommon occurance.
The point is, there is no incentive to run anything higher than a starter kit. Victory is not rewarded, so why risk assets? MCC AFK'rs use the same logic. I just get to have more fun than they do, because I'm ruining someones day by costing them fake space money they may have acquired from the use of real money.
Dust is broken. Perhaps they should consider fixing the most basic PUG mode before they start messing with the part of the game that actually matters?[/quote]
I don't see how that's possible unless it was an aurum-bought proto suit. Normally, ISK proto players have more than enough survivability to survive a full clip of a militia AR.
Victory is rewarded to an extent. If you play well and say, accrue 2000+ WP on your own and have boosters running, you'll get a decent amount of SP for your troubles and perhaps a better ISK profit as well to compensate. A well-built suit should die only once or none at all in a match.
HOWEVER, the militia shotgun needs looking at. That thing does not conform to MLT standards and can DESTROY ANY suit. The MLT sniper on the other hand at least has less clip and reload speed while being a skill--intensive weapon. That is, sniping people in a LAV, sprinting, dropping, etc. |
hydraSlav's
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
21
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Posted - 2013.04.03 04:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
James Thraxton wrote:hydraSlav's wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:-Goes entirely against the spirit of New Eden, and every basic principle in Eve. Discuss. Incorrect, in EvE, when you dock to a station in pod, you get a free ship (with a gun) given to you (out of pity by the station manager ) You can have as many of those free ships as many times as you would dock in a pod your argument is invalid I've never seen an ibis wreck anything except itself. . .
You were not around when goonswarm flew rookie ships?
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
750
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 04:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:
Victory is not rewarded, so why risk assets?
If anyone is spending more on a match than they'll actually gain, then they've already lost in my book. Entirely the point.
So you're saying you want a guaranteed win just because you put more ISK into a match? Sorry, but proto fits and tanks aren't meant to be sustainable, or "I win" buttons, losing one or two should always out you in the negatives for that match.
Anyone who brings a proto tank into ambush has no right to complain if the entire enemy team switches into free swarm launchers. Don't use it if you aren't willing to lose it. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1181
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 05:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:-Costs nothing. -Can easily destroy stuff that costs something. -Zero risk, full reward. -Goes entirely against the spirit of New Eden, and every basic principle in Eve. Discuss.
militia gear OP now here is a thread |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
111
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 06:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:I just ran around punking protos in my untrained militia assault frontline starter kit. All it requires is that I see them before they see me. This is hardly an uncommon occurance.
It really depends who's using the Proto, if its an AUR suit you can bet the user has nowhere near enough skills to properly use it, if its an ISK suit you (if you have 500k sp) unload almost an entire clip into it if they are a bit over your medium range, if you meet em up close that total 300 hp won't stand up to a direct hit from a duvolle, lest alone double damage modded.
Tried it yesterday 500k sp, nothing more basic assault fit and while i could get 17/3 milage in that piece of junk dropsuit and i did manage to drop a few that i think are good players where if i was my protosuit and head on idd say our skills were equal and both could die 50% chance, in a militia fit it was a real workout and i had to get creative with grenades holding the pulled grenade up to the last milisecond and losing a hand to blow them up when they reared that corner.
At the end of the day i managed a low 1.18 KDR against single, double & tripple stacked teams on the opposing side, tanks, tanks, more tanks & getting spawn killed because you just cant react between the loading screen & still being alive when you are done loading and protos, duvolles creaming you before you can say Sh*t...Viziams giving you a face shave in a flat 0.3 seconds.
I really had to go back & use tactics, vs brute forcing myself trough the opposition.
All the solo newberries should be praised for hanging on against the brute force that is the Proto-suit.
While it was all hilarious and giggles for me, it has to be pretty frustrating for new people trying out Dust, one single time and never again. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
673
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 07:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
So me ratting or mining in a starter frig doesn't break new eden spirit? Hell I could probably pvp with it |
Deadeyes Anterie
Ill Omens
348
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 07:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Better gear normally equates to more WP, I always run my 65k kit. I lose about 195k a match, make about 280k. I might not make all that much but I have fun running people in ****** gear over. To me its worth the cost because it increases my enjoyment. At about 35mil now. Would probably be 100mil if I used OP gear, but it wouldn't have been worth it for the 65mil for me. |
Commercially Released
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.04.03 07:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
BPOs are gamebreaking but most received them for dirt cheap and would cry if we removed them. Instead we have militia tanks for $.50 a pop (before fittings!) and say the game is on the right path... |
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Rei Shepard
Spectre II
111
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Posted - 2013.04.03 07:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:So me ratting or mining in a starter frig doesn't break new eden spirit? Hell I could probably pvp with it
True you could, but you would need 88 of them to start making my shields go red just a little, eve & dust don't really compare directly.
Quote:BPOs are gamebreaking but most received them for dirt cheap and would cry if we removed them. Instead we have militia tanks for $.50 a pop (before fittings!) and say the game is on the right path...
Never used a BPO, and i am at 90m running proto gear, how is that crap even gamebreaking ? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2355
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 07:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drake435 wrote:HOWEVER, the militia shotgun needs looking at. That thing does not conform to MLT standards and can DESTROY ANY suit. The MLT sniper on the other hand at least has less clip and reload speed while being a skill--intensive weapon. That is, sniping people in a LAV, sprinting, dropping, etc.
There are plenty of uses for Snipers that are less skill intensive than specifically the skill-intensive situations in which they're useful.
Just like there are plenty of skill-intensive uses for Shotguns - dodging an enemy LAV and headshotting the driver on the way past, before taking out the gunner while he tries to turn your way.
The skillsets required for both weapons are different, but there are still skill-intensive situations and targets who are easy prey for either weapon.
The Militia Shotgun, like other Militia weapons, has a smaller clip than the Standard version. Same way the Sniper has a smaller clip. The sheer fact of how limited the Shotgun's effective range is can be seen as a balancing factor as well. And like the Militia Sniper Rifle and AR and every other weapon, the Militia Shotgun has a longer reload time than the Standard version. It's actually comparatively the hardest-hit based on reload time. Most Shotguns are 0.6 seconds per shell, while the Militia Shotgun is 1.0s. In total, a 6-round reload with a Militia Shotgun takes 1.2 seconds longer than reloading 8 rounds in a the Standard weapon.
EDIT: In spite of all that, I agree the Militia Shotgun is somehow actually a more viable weapon than it should be. I'd support a SLIGHT nerf. Maybe curring back to 5 (or even 4) shots instead of 6. Or increasing reload by another 0.1s per shot. |
Deadeyes Anterie
Ill Omens
348
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 07:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
If you are bad and lose your tank every match you have two options.
Don't tank 24/7 and save up isk for your tank losses. Or kick up 15-25 cents per tank if you want to always use what you want when you want while you are bad at doing it. Nothing wrong here, a great way to fund the game and nobody suffers. Just more bad tanks to blow up, and more isk in my match payouts. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 18:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:So me ratting or mining in a starter frig doesn't break new eden spirit? Hell I could probably pvp with it
I can kill you and smartbomb your pod while you are doing this.
You are always at risk. |
Goric Rumis
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
136
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 19:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
I assume when you say "militia" you really mean "starter fits," since these are the ones that cost nothing. The starter fits solve a couple problems:
1) A player who has nothing (0 ISK, 0 inventory) needs to be able to play. This is a problem for EVE as well, that they solve by giving out starter ships. You can actually accomplish something with a starter ship and get more ISK, so it gives you the ability to scratch your way back from nothing. The only way to get ISK in DUST is to play PVP, so the starter suit has to be capable of enabling you to play in a PVP match.
2) Every player in a match needs to be competitively equipped. Unlike EVE, DUST has to be relatively balanced on a player-for-player basis. Otherwise there's little point in playing. Nearly every match would be a landslide victory after 30 seconds. This doesn't mean players need to be equivalently equipped, but that the weakest player needs to be technically capable of killing the strongest player (barring the rock-paper-scissors factor, which is another discussion entirely).
I think that starter suits will ultimately receive further nerfs. They've already cut all the starter fits to use the same assault militia suit, which is definitely a nerf compared to having the armor of a heavy or the speed of a scout. But I think we all know they can't do away with them entirely.
As for BPO's, I think generally the devs don't like them and are trying to avoid giving them out. One reason why all the rewards for the past several events have been BPC's. Should we do away with the militia BPO's on the market? I would like that, but I don't think they're game-breaking exactly. I have more of a problem with the MAG tribute suits, which I think would be better served by allowing suits to equip a cosmetic slot that can change the colors, and then you can buy the colors as a BPO--which has the benefit of allowing you to equip those colors on an advanced or prototype suit, instead of being stuck with a standard. But, like most of my ideas, that requires development. |
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