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CODE Breaker93
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
57
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why does getting picked up count as a death? You don't lose a clone so why count the death? Why don't vehicle rep give wp? Why don't shield reps give wp?  |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
711
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
CODE Breaker93 wrote:Why does getting picked up count as a death?
Because someone knocked you the **** out! |
DUST Fiend
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2229
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because when you get "knocked out", you're basically dead. You died. Someone owned your face off. Fortunately for you, nanites are made of sex, and they love pistol your ass back into action. You died. You got smoked. Tea cup for the T bag in the Tea shop. Done like bacon, as it were.
The rest of your complaints are because beta, and dropship pilots have it the worst. Make a thread in feedback if you have a good idea for WP on Armor / Shield reps. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2333
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Being revived doesn't count as a death. Getting killed counts as a death. Getting revived doesn't count as an un-death because you still died. |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
754
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Posted - 2013.04.02 06:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
It counts as a.death so people can't pad stats.and.there. is an accurate measurement of how often you get your ass handed to you.
I think it should not be changed and your kdr should reflect it because people are under the delusion that kdr=only measure of skill. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Being revived doesn't count as a death. Getting killed counts as a death. Getting revived doesn't count as an un-death because you still died.
But its not a death. Your bleeding out. Your still conscious and can even active remote expolsives |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
711
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Being revived doesn't count as a death. Getting killed counts as a death. Getting revived doesn't count as an un-death because you still died.
Well, we're not really dead, unless it's a headshot, we're just incapacitated for the time being. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
711
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:It counts as a.death so people can't pad stats.and.there. is an accurate measurement of how often you get your ass handed to you.
I think it should not be changed and your kdr should reflect it because people are under the delusion that kdr=only measure of skill.
I just wish deaths right after being revived didn't count, freak'n D-bag Logi's -_-" |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
254
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's a valid question, though. If the clone survives, there is no death. Neither is there a kill. It would be good for the game to make it so. Would introduce a mini game of finishing off dying clones to make sure you get the frag. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:It counts as a.death so people can't pad stats.and.there. is an accurate measurement of how often you get your ass handed to you.
I think it should not be changed and your kdr should reflect it because people are under the delusion that kdr=only measure of skill.
How could this be used to cheat stats? All it would do is give everyone a slightly better k/d. Works fine for the battlefield series |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2334
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
It's death in the sense that your clone body is no longer able to hold its own weight up. The only things you can do are possible to trigger through use of the brain only.
You're not bleeding out, you're physically dead and entering brain-death. Makes more sense based on the lore behind what we are. |
Yeva Kalsani
Reckoners
16
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
On the topic of revives: Because whoever thought it up wanted to be silly, I guess.  That, or it's easier to program the way it is.
IMHO kills/deaths of a rescued clone should be discounted. For one, there's the revive-kills that are nothing impressive and the victim has no control over them. For another, it skews the stats making it harder to judge someone's performance. It makes it hard to tell, for instance, if someone in a match actually killed ten people, or if they actually only killed 5 and the rest of those "kills" were actually clones who got revived. Or someone who died 6 times or was actually revive-killed four times in a row and actually only died twice in the entire match.
As for vehicle repair WP, you do get Guardian points whenever the vehicle kills anybody while you're repairing it. But it would put too much incentive on repairing the vehicles instead of infantry if it was rewarded the same. Logistics would hide behind armor-tanks, doing nothing but repairing them the entire match and ignoring infantry. That said, I do think it would deserve some reward because repairing a tank, for instance, is a tactically sound choice. If it would just give +25 WP each time you restored a full 50% of a vehicle's armor, that would be a nice incentive. Outside of tactical reasons, there's no incentive in the game to repair vehicles, so it's rare to see anybody do that despite it being a wise choice in some situations. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
711
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:
How could this be used to cheat stats? All it would do is give everyone a slightly better k/d. Works fine for the battlefield series
Because you, not neccessarily you, we're unable to keep yourself alive. You needed help. KDR isn't the most important stat, but it does show who is capable of taking care of themselves. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:It's death in the sense that your clone body is no longer able to hold its own weight up. The only things you can do are possible to trigger through use of the brain only.
You're not bleeding out, you're physically dead and entering brain-death. Makes more sense based on the lore behind what we are.
No your bleeding out. Activation of remote explosives is not done psychicly. It requires movement of the arms. Also grenades can finish being thrown. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Rugman91 wrote:
How could this be used to cheat stats? All it would do is give everyone a slightly better k/d. Works fine for the battlefield series
Because you, not neccessarily you, we're unable to keep yourself alive. You needed help. KDR isn't the most important stat, but it does show who is capable of taking care of themselves.
The only difference it would make is between those who use teamwork verses solo guys. Which in my option only makes the stat better. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
443
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
CODE Breaker93 wrote:Why does getting picked up count as a death? You don't lose a clone so why count the death? Why don't vehicle rep give wp? Why don't shield reps give wp?
people abuses the vehicle repping for limitless OB's
as for the rest.
the DEVS angered Bacon, that's why
|
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
711
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Rugman91 wrote:
How could this be used to cheat stats? All it would do is give everyone a slightly better k/d. Works fine for the battlefield series
Because you, not neccessarily you, we're unable to keep yourself alive. You needed help. KDR isn't the most important stat, but it does show who is capable of taking care of themselves. The only difference it would make is between those who use teamwork verses solo guys. Which in my option only makes the stat better.
No. Lets say revives don't count as deaths: There's two heavies both with a 20-1 KDR. One of them got revived 15 times. Which one would you hire for a contract, The guy who can handle himself on his own, or the guy who always needs a babysitter?
The only way it would work is if we also had a "number of times revived" stat, but then we'd just know what we already know. Yeah we're not actually dead, but everyone knows what the stat means |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2334
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:It's death in the sense that your clone body is no longer able to hold its own weight up. The only things you can do are possible to trigger through use of the brain only.
You're not bleeding out, you're physically dead and entering brain-death. Makes more sense based on the lore behind what we are. No your bleeding out. Activation of remote explosives is not done psychicly. It requires movement of the arms. Also grenades can finish being thrown.
You're right. We don't have implants that allow us to transmit detonation signals to REs without use of arms.
Show me a dead clone moving their arms under their own power. Catch it on video.
And when you're in a throwing animation and get shot in the head and die without the option to be revived, you still throw the grenade too. Does that mean you're not dead after being killed in a manner you can't be revived from as well? |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
713
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 07:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
And when you're in a throwing animation and get shot in the head and die without the option to be revived, you still throw the grenade too. Does that mean you're not dead after being killed in a manner you can't be revived from as well?
The grenade just flies in a random direction most of the time lol. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2334
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:And when you're in a throwing animation and get shot in the head and die without the option to be revived, you still throw the grenade too. Does that mean you're not dead after being killed in a manner you can't be revived from as well? The grenade just flies in a random direction most of the time lol.
The same way it does when you're still able to be revived. |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
713
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:And when you're in a throwing animation and get shot in the head and die without the option to be revived, you still throw the grenade too. Does that mean you're not dead after being killed in a manner you can't be revived from as well? The grenade just flies in a random direction most of the time lol. The same way it does when you're still able to be revived.
I wasn't arguing about that, just pointing out that I have no control over where the grenade goes once I'm taken out. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 07:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Rugman91 wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Rugman91 wrote:
How could this be used to cheat stats? All it would do is give everyone a slightly better k/d. Works fine for the battlefield series
Because you, not neccessarily you, we're unable to keep yourself alive. You needed help. KDR isn't the most important stat, but it does show who is capable of taking care of themselves. The only difference it would make is between those who use teamwork verses solo guys. Which in my option only makes the stat better. No. Lets say revives don't count as deaths: There's two heavies both with a 20-1 KDR. One of them got revived 15 times. Which one would you hire for a contract, The guy who can handle himself on his own, or the guy who always needs a babysitter? The only way it would work is if we also had a "number of times revived" stat, but then we'd just know what we already know. Yeah we're not actually dead, but everyone knows what the stat means
My feeling is that your taking the stat to be more useful at determining the skill of a player than it actually is. I feel that in reality it would make little difference whether the deaths counted or not. It all comes down to player preferece. As i said before it works with every other fps so why not this one. If this game didnt count revives as deaths by default i seriously doubt we'd have people asking for it to be the way it is now |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
713
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Posted - 2013.04.02 07:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:As i said before it works with every other fps so why not this one. If this game didnt count revives as deaths by default i seriously doubt we'd have people asking for it to be the way it is now
Other games aren't Dust, in Dust you get hired based on personal performance and ability to work with others.
Pair either heavy with a Logi, you can't tell me the team where the Logi constantly has to revive his partner would be more efficient than the other team.
Quote:My feeling is that your taking the stat to be more useful at determining the skill of a player than it actually is.
Nope, there's a lot of things stats don't show us. We could have WP per Death as a stat, but how do you separate a good Logi from a guy who keeps revivng a guy while a red shoots him? Stats aren't everything, but they do give you a general idea of persons skill. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 07:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Right dust is different. But as i said before your taking the stat too seriously. A heavy or a sniper is always going to have a much better ratio than a cqc scout. Doesnt mean hes less effective. The only way to really know if someones good is play with them |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
714
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Posted - 2013.04.02 08:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:Right dust is different. But as i said before your taking the stat too seriously. A heavy or a sniper is always going to have a much better ratio than a cqc scout. Doesnt mean hes less effective. The only way to really know if someones good is play with them
How am I taking the stat too seriously? I just said it only gives us a general idea. A guy could have a 20.1 KDR, he could be really good, he could do nothing but pubstomb noobs, or maybe he's a redline sniper. The stat on it's own is worthless.
But I don't see how your idea does anything to show us these things either, in fact it shows us less things. Maybe the guy had to get revivied 19 times cause he's an idiot and ran into groups of reds? Maybe his partner kept reviving him without clearing the area? Idk, but with your system we don't even know he spent all match getting revived. At the end of the day both heavies still ended up with a 20.1 KDR, but clearly 1 team was more efficient than the other and our current system somewhat reflects that better than the one where revives don't count as deaths. |
Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.02 08:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
Now we are starting to agree. Your right the stat is worthless. My point is not that its an improvment of the stat but that it is simply a matter of player preference whether "downs" are counted as deaths or not. I feel that most players prefer they not be
Btw thx for the avid discussion |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
224
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Posted - 2013.04.02 10:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
You know whats hilarious about this thread...people used whine all the time that nobody ever carried a pen. Fast forward. Players start carrying injectors and begin pleading with other players to stop bleeding out immediately. Now players are unhappy because being rezzed is sometimes hurting their kdr.
Recycle, reduce, reuse...repeat endlessly |
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