My tank that had 4k in Shields, was taken down by two players carrying only Flux and AV Nades, no Proto gear.

So, basically, this gets rid of the whole, "You need a squad full of people specced into AV to take out a tank" arguement that Infantry players always fall back on.

My tank cost 400k ISK, how much did you say their fittings cost? Hardly over 30k ISK.

So, yeah, you Infantry players can keep crying. Until you stop crying and learn how to deal with tanks, you're never going to be able destroy one.

All that time spent complaining on the forums wanting tanks nerfed could be spent using your brain to deal with them.

Tanks are fine

Swarms are fine

Forge guns are fine

AV grenades too

As an AV guy, I can say that there have been MANY tanks I could not destroy. There have also been MANY I have destroyed in a couple seconds. No more complaining

It is, there have been many times where I have thrown 3 AV grenades at a tank just to have it's shields go down 40%. Then it goes behind a hill and recharges it's shields. AV grenades are fine, you just need to skill up more

Can someone dig up that quote by the devs along the lines of, "We don't want equipment to determine encounters. A skilled player with good gear should beat a skilled player with bad gear, but an unskilled player with good gear should not beat a skilled player with bad gear."

The balancing in the game is all about diminishing returns. A militia swarm does 80% of the damange of an advanced swarm by design. You should never be able to say, "Oh, he's just running militia equipment. Nothing to worry about." That would be poor balance.



I would think a more experienced player would have more perspective than this, but I suppose not. Where exactly should the balance be, do you figure? Exactly how much SP should it cost to "balance" AV grenades against tanks? When will the balancing be enough?

The answer is there is no exact amount, and it will never be enough. Tank drivers will always whine about AV grenades because that's something that works. They will continue to whine as long as AV grenades are at all effective.

How about instead of going on and on about nerf this nerf that, you adapt to the tools you have and the tools your enemy has?

Do you understand what the word "exactly" means? I hope you do. The point you're completely ignoring, and I guess I have to say again word for word, "The answer is there is no exact amount, and it will never be enough. Tank drivers will always whine about AV grenades because that's something that works. They will continue to whine as long as AV grenades are at all effective."



I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make a comparison to real life, as if "balance" between weapon systems is something that exists anywhere other than a video game.

But fine, I'll bite. Have you ever heard of a land mine? Have you ever heard of an improvised explosive device? Light, cheap weapons destroy big, heavy expensive weapons all the time. Your argument is that a grenade should not be able to destroy a tank because it weighs less?

SoTaPoP, here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about and the caliber of minds with which you're choosing to align yourself.

If people actually put SP into LAVs, particularly shield LAVs, it wouldnt be like this though. The few people that actually have points in LAVs really surprise me when I chuck an AV at them and they still run me over with half or quarter shield left. People cant call in a free LAV without modifying it at all and expect to live through a packed AV.

Thank you for bringing that bit up. My buddy fits AVs and dies all the time without throwing a single one. Sometimes I remind him to blow up an empty LAV just to get out a few extra WP. He prefers Locus more but with all the roadkill happy psychos out there you almost need to keep AVs handy.


Aside if a tank is lingering within grenade toss range then he's doing something wrong.

AV Grenades are OP as they stand atm. AV Nades should be a Supplement.......not a GoTo as it devalues the Main AV Weapons. & the Range & Homing is obscene. Try jumping before a toss, & even w/o jumping you can 1/4 Map toss on most Ambush Maps. Bowl??? 1/2 to 2/3 Map tosses w/o jumping. Mind you this is Packed AV........god forbid I try tossing Sleeks, lol. Damage needs a Nerf for obvious reasons. When Damage Mods get fixed (If........) the Forges & Swarms will be ineffective compared to the George Foreman Grill of AV which never had nor needed Mods to rival most Main AV Weapons. Why not be both Infantry & AV Efficient @ all times??? Spec AV??? LOL!!!!!!! Save SP, spec Nades, WIN.

What a nonsense post right there. Everything in that post is bull****
Don't know why you won't classify AV grenades as a "main AV weapon" when they are the only AV weapon with "AV" in their title.

Quoted to reinforce that tank drivers will never be happy until they are invincible. Actually, not just "unhappy". They will never stop whining and QQing until they are invincible.

These are the kind of people the anti-AV squad are fighting for. Is this the "balance" you're looking for?



You choose to compliment this rambling, nonsensical rant? Yikes.

And AV grenades are useless against anything but vehicles.
And they take PG and CPU that could be used to fit better modules.
And you have to be close enough to throw a grenade near the target.

AV grenades are not a substitute for swarms or forge guns. They are a backup primarily useful against LAVs.

If you get a squad who are all holding AV grenades within throwing range of a tank, and if that tank is unescorted by infantry, and if the tank has no line of retreat, then you will destroy the tank. This does happen, but eight times out of ten, it's because the tank driver put himself in a vulnerable position or the squad decided to suicide bum rush the tank and managed to get behind it without being noticed.

This AV homing vs. not homing argument is a distraction. The tank drivers who want AV nerfed want to be able to waltz around the battlefield with no threats whatsoever because they've convinced themselves that their 2,000,000 ISK tank shouldn't be destroyed by anything other than another 2,000,000 ISK tank.

That isn't the way things work in real life, and it's not the way things work here. If you can't deal with that, then the solution is to stop using tanks, not appeal for rule changes in your favor.

lol...getting your tank blown by a solo heavy is worse than getting meleed or nova knived by a heavy

I was using the hypothetical "you". I know you don't run tanks, but you're defending their terrible arguments, and I'm not quire sure why.

Anyway, I'm sure you're right. Now that AV grenades exist, I'm sure you've never brought out your forge gun to fire on any enemy vehicle from range. Why would you when you can just walk right up to a Sagaris and take it out with a few AV grenades risk free?