DUST Search - [Feedback] Forge Guns are OP

Harpyja wrote:

A forge gun with less than 1400 base damage nearly 2 shotted my 4700/1100 Gunnlogi, and I had no idea where it was coming from. Isn't that OP? Being able to take down HAVs in complete concealment? My Gunnlogi costs 10X your suit, so don't complain that you're risking ISK too.

Please reduce damage from forge guns; their damage is better than rail guns for crying out loud! Pocket railgun a shouldn't be as powerful or more powerful than turret railguns.

Suggestion: Make forge gunners blip on radar each time they shoot

Alternative Suggestion: In addition to showing up on radar, forge gunner should become immobilized while charging and can't move with a charge. This will prevent them from hiding and charging, popping up for a split second to shoot, and hide again. Don't try telling me "hurr-durr, just shoot 'em before they shoot!" because obviously there's no way to getting them before they get me. "hurr-durr, use blueberries!" if they are in the open, yes my team will take care if them. If they are concealed, well, don't tell me what a forge gunner WANTS to say.

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Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.03.27 21:42:00 - [1] - Quote A forge gun with less than 1400 base damage nearly 2 shotted my 4700/1100 Gunnlogi, and I had no idea where it was coming from. Isn't that OP? Being able to take down HAVs in complete concealment? My Gunnlogi costs 10X your suit, so don't complain that you're risking ISK too. Please reduce damage from forge guns; their damage is better than rail guns for crying out loud! Pocket railgun a shouldn't be as powerful or more powerful than turret railguns.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 194	Posted - 2013.03.27 21:48:00 - [2] - Quote Dude, my Sica has more HP than that.
Texs Red SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 7	Posted - 2013.03.27 21:59:00 - [3] - Quote My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:02:00 - [4] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Dude, my Sica has more HP than that. Say that to my 60% resists
J Lav Lost-Legion Orion Empire 43	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote Forge guns are easy pickings for your fellow non-tankers. I think your problem is more one of being exposed by the complete lack of terrain in the present maps. Future builds will have more line of sight impediments. <- I hope
CYRAX SERVIUS Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 47	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:14:00 - [6] - Quote Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Dude, my Sica has more HP than that. You beat me to it, I got 5550/1000 on my sica!!!
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Daringly Inserting Large Dangerous Objects 55	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:16:00 - [7] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. railguns RoF 0.3seconds Forge gun RoF 3seconds thats 10x slower plus rail limted by heat forge gun limted by clip/max ammo
Israckcatarac Opus Arcana Orion Empire 11	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:21:00 - [8] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. We call it the magic of imagination kinda like the giant railguns mounted to tank's space ships flying over head or my favorite Dieing and coming back as a clone over and over and over again.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 31	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:26:00 - [9] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. It's because forge gun projectiles are propelled by electromagnets, not by an explosion like conventional firearms.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:30:00 - [10] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. It's because forge gun projectiles are propelled by electromagnets, not by an explosion like conventional firearms. Lol, a force is a force, no matter how its applied, you will still feel recoil from magnetically accelerated projectiles.

Israckcatarac Opus Arcana Orion Empire 12	Posted - 2013.03.27 22:59:00 - [11] - Quote slypie11 wrote: Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. It's because forge gun projectiles are propelled by electromagnets, not by an explosion like conventional firearms. Acceleration is produced when a force acts on a mass. The greater the mass (of the object being accelerated) the greater the amount of force needed (to accelerate the object). For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action. This means that for every force there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. That is to say that whenever an object pushes another object it gets pushed back in the opposite direction equally hard.
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 194	Posted - 2013.03.27 23:45:00 - [12] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Dude, my Sica has more HP than that. Say that to my 60% resists If you're talking about 4x 15% resist mods, then you're actually looking at about 40% resists. It's not possible to have 60% shield resists, at least not for more than ten seconds at a time.
DeadlyAztec11 One-Armed Bandits 8	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:05:00 - [13] - Quote Israckcatarac wrote: slypie11 wrote: Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. It's because forge gun projectiles are propelled by electromagnets, not by an explosion like conventional firearms. Acceleration is produced when a force acts on a mass. The greater the mass (of the object being accelerated) the greater the amount of force needed (to accelerate the object). For every action there is an equal and opposite re-action. This means that for every force there is a reaction force that is equal in size, but opposite in direction. That is to say that whenever an object pushes another object it gets pushed back in the opposite direction equally hard. The force is probably absorbed by the suit. Probably using the same tech that would be used for inertia dampeners. You might as well argue the scientific validity behind transferring consciousness.
coc knocker Pork Sword Enterprises 0	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:19:00 - [14] - Quote or maybe when you have your tank your team is not working with you(often the case as they are red linning) tanks are good but need support from ground troops to take out the AT guys, maybe bit more communication and team work and you wont be getting shot so often, specially in tight environments. Team work is the key to this game not just going solo and "hey look at me i've got sooo much money check out my blinging tank!'
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:20:00 - [15] - Quote ladwar wrote: Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. railguns RoF 0.3seconds Forge gun RoF 3seconds thats 10x slower plus rail limted by heat forge gun limted by clip/max ammo therefore I should be able to use a weapon that has 10x the damage and 10x the charge as a forge gun! Brilliant! Oh wait, that would lead to one shotting vehicles out of nowhere which is blatantly unfair and broken. OH WAIT, THAT'S WHAT FORGE GUNS ARE DOING NOW. ty.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1254	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:27:00 - [16] - Quote Harpyja wrote: A forge gun with less than 1400 base damage nearly 2 shotted my 4700/1100 Gunnlogi, and I had no idea where it was coming from. Isn't that OP? Being able to take down HAVs in complete concealment? My Gunnlogi costs 10X your suit, so don't complain that you're risking ISK too. Please reduce damage from forge guns; their damage is better than rail guns for crying out loud! Pocket railgun a shouldn't be as powerful or more powerful than turret railguns. Suggestion: Make forge gunners blip on radar each time they shoot Alternative Suggestion: In addition to showing up on radar, forge gunner should become immobilized while charging and can't move with a charge. This will prevent them from hiding and charging, popping up for a split second to shoot, and hide again. Don't try telling me "hurr-durr, just shoot 'em before they shoot!" because obviously there's no way to getting them before they get me. "hurr-durr, use blueberries!" if they are in the open, yes my team will take care if them. If they are concealed, well, don't tell me what a forge gunner WANTS to say. Oh my god, for the last time: DAMAGE MODS WITH NO STACKING PENALTIES. Seriously, I can't wait till they announce stacking penalties for those things in the patch notes for the next build, and suddenly all those OP weapons are OP no longer. It's gonna be funnier because people will be making posts about buffs and nerfs when they only thing they'll have done is fix the fact that Damage Mods are broken.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 117	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:27:00 - [17] - Quote Firstly when the op stated the base dammag how did they know what forge gun it ws if it nearly 2 shotted his tank and secondly as a heavy / tanker/pilot the only way that a forge can 1 or 2 shot standerd tank setups is with the breech models ob a proto set up which isnt cheep either in sp or isk. So unkess you can give 1 tge model of the forge gun and 2 what suit/mods the gunner wad using tgen you cant call them op. If ibrun the proto suit fully stocked itl cost just about a mill isk or 400 aur so with investments like that you bet we should be able to dish dammage like your describing.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 1010	Posted - 2013.03.28 00:58:00 - [18] - Quote lol... OP?...the weapon is meant to take out tanks.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming 1010	Posted - 2013.03.28 01:00:00 - [19] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. lol @ bringing real life into a video game set in a imaginary universe in the future. GG.
Harpija Commando Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.03.28 01:15:00 - [20] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Firstly when the op stated the base dammag how did they know what forge gun it ws if it nearly 2 shotted his tank and secondly as a heavy / tanker/pilot the only way that a forge can 1 or 2 shot standerd tank setups is with the breech models ob a proto set up which isnt cheep either in sp or isk. So unkess you can give 1 tge model of the forge gun and 2 what suit/mods the gunner wad using tgen you cant call them op. If ibrun the proto suit fully stocked itl cost just about a mill isk or 400 aur so with investments like that you bet we should be able to dish dammage like your describing. The killfeed lists the weapon that killed you; I always do my research to determine whether something is right or wrong. This case it just feels wrong to have a forge gun the doesn't even cost 40k ISK to destroy my 650k ISK HAV in a couple of hits.

Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 783	Posted - 2013.03.28 01:41:00 - [21] - Quote As a fellow Tanker, I feel your pain, at 6000 shields with two 15% resists, watching my Tank get 3 shotted by a proto forge is ******* awful, but then again, when I bring out my rail I can three shot a bolas and one shot everything else. I just avoid built up areas and places where Infantry have cover now, I'm beginning to feel that's the balance, Tankers need to be careful, don't rush in somewhere for an easy kill because it might cost you.
Goric Rumis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 117	Posted - 2013.03.28 02:01:00 - [22] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. First of all, you're still thinking in Newtonian terms in the very far future. We're already seeing ways around the conventional Newtonian models at the visible scale in the present. Granted, this is a relatively low-tech future if they're still using railguns, but there's plenty suspension of disbelief that I can accept what's going on here. Second, even in the Newtonian model you can create mechanical methods of counteracting a force. They frequently do it in conventional modern weaponry. This may include expelling gas like some weapons do to reduce kick, or it may involve moving heavy counterweights to spread out the sudden impulse of firing over time. 900 newtons in a tenth of a second may not be manageable, whereas spreading that force over a full second reduces its impact tenfold. Harpija wrote: This case it just feels wrong to have a forge gun the doesn't even cost 40k ISK to destroy my 650k ISK HAV in a couple of hits. How much would you like him to have to pay?
Adelia Lafayette DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2013.03.28 02:13:00 - [23] - Quote tanks have a weak spot that takes more damage. make sure your not getting shot in the butt.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 77	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:23:00 - [24] - Quote Texs Red wrote: My only question is how someone is able to carry and shoot a gun who's damage is equal to that of those mounted on tanks. How would you be able to even shoot one? "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" so if you shoot a gun with 80GJ force that means there is 80GJ of force action upon you and not matter how heavy your suit I don't think it's enough. Buff rails or nerf forges.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 77	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:24:00 - [25] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: As a fellow Tanker, I feel your pain, at 6000 shields with two 15% resists, watching my Tank get 3 shotted by a proto forge is ******* awful, but then again, when I bring out my rail I can three shot a bolas and one shot everything else. I just avoid built up areas and places where Infantry have cover now, I'm beginning to feel that's the balance, Tankers need to be careful, don't rush in somewhere for an easy kill because it might cost you. The best tankers are kittens.
Otavio Martins The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.03.28 23:12:00 - [26] - Quote CYRAX SERVIUS wrote: Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote: Dude, my Sica has more HP than that. You beat me to it, I got 5550/1000 on my sica!!! My Surya has 900/8873 or something like that.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 117	Posted - 2013.03.28 23:50:00 - [27] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: As a fellow Tanker, I feel your pain, at 6000 shields with two 15% resists, watching my Tank get 3 shotted by a proto forge is ******* awful, but then again, when I bring out my rail I can three shot a bolas and one shot everything else. I just avoid built up areas and places where Infantry have cover now, I'm beginning to feel that's the balance, Tankers need to be careful, don't rush in somewhere for an easy kill because it might cost you. Youv seen what im capable of with a forge ( cough cough destroys sagies solo) and its frightining the dammage I can dish out as a part time tanker I hate forges but as a proto heavy I love them .


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