DUST Search - [SUGGESTION] - More Control over Corp Battles

NanoCleric wrote:

I personally think the most important thing at the moment is being able to control who is present in the battle.

For instance:

You create 3 squads over corp/alliance chat, the leaders have all the members in their squads waiting and ready, the queue opens and we enter the battle only to find a random member or 2 have joined solo and prevent the last squad from joining.

As a director, once your in the warbarge, you cannot remove members from battle, you dont even have the corp management so that you can remove a member from your corp temporarily if they dont listen to you asking them to leave the battle.

What we need is the ability to assign 3 names to a battle which will dictate the squad leaders who are permitted to join that battle.. or simply a way of ensuring someone in the corp has roles which allow them to select a person in the warbarge and remove them from the battle. So that you can bring your organised squad in.

Essentially we'd want to use the time on the warbarge to discuss the battle and organise for it. However.. sometimes you end up just spending the whole 10 minutes trying to get a random to leave so that you can bring the other squad in, so you enter the battle totally unprepped.

It would also be extremely useful if a director or /differentRole/ had a menu option to force all current team members onto team audio. As again.. it can take up a good proportion of time on the warbarge just getting members to read chat and enable their voice comms in team chat, even if they dont have a mic and it's only to listen.

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NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 8	Posted - 2013.03.27 17:15:00 - [1] - Quote I've searched through the weekly updates thread, the first dozenpages of the feedback forum and did a search and found nothing else on this, so i appologise if it's already been mentioned, but if so, it seems to have gotten lost in the archives and i feel this is a very important issue. Problem: Currently when we initiate / accept a corporation battle, when we join the battle we have no control over who joins the battle. We have to ensure we have two preformed squads ready to enter the battle at the allotted time. This however can become completely messed up if a random corp member manages to join before one of the squads. We've had this happen multiple times, and it results in players not responding and not leaving the match because they are unaware that losing these matches actually costs us a lot of isk. We had a match the other day where the second squad couldn't join and 2 randoms joined and they did not activate voice coms, nor did they pay attention to chat, so they had no idea we were trying to field an organised team and totally messed up the match for us. Solution: There are two options: (1) Password Protection - When an officer accepts / initiates the corp battle, they are given the option to set a password for that match. This would mean the leader would then need to mail the other squad leader the password, then the two squad leaders can join their squads into the match. Obviously if you put the pass in chat, then in a large corp, you can bet some random will jump in and cause the same problem. (2) Only allow the CEO + Officers to join the match, then from inside the battle, the Officer can then invite players to the battle, ideally by selecting their name in corp chat, and they are given the option 'Invite to game'. This would then invite the assigned people to the team channel, where they can then form squads and prepare for battle. I personally would prefer method 2, but it would require more code changes than implementing password protection. I hope we can get some support behind this issue, as it's very problematic for large corps that have no ingame methods of informing the corp what policies we run by. There is no management functionality as yet to 'control' what players do. Especially when it comes to these corp battles. Thanks for your time and consideration all. - NanoCleric [TUL]
Chris F2112 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 29	Posted - 2013.03.27 17:28:00 - [2] - Quote With corp battles on the way out to make way for planetary conquest, I think the first point is relatively pointless. The second point is good, and could help get the correct team into the game, but if leaders are having that much problem controlling one of their corp members they should honestly just kick them out.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 8	Posted - 2013.03.27 17:36:00 - [3] - Quote Sorry Chris, i don't believe your correct on that, if you are then feel free to show me the link explaining that please.. but... Essentially from as far as i'm aware, Corp Battles are not on their way out... Corp Battles are how you actually do Planetary Conquest. You conquer districts by arranging and fighting Corp Battles. So the issue still stands.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 8	Posted - 2013.03.28 08:09:00 - [4] - Quote Having to bump this.. it's a serious issue, the problem being the vast majority of players are just members, and don't experience this problem, but for corporation managment, this is a very big issue... Would really appreciate some consideration from the masses so that the dev's will see this post. Cheers.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 8	Posted - 2013.03.29 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote I'm saddened to see there's no support for this.. It's a real issue, it happened to us again today, we had a corp match break apart because we couldn't get out second squad in, we had to forfeit someone who we'd planned to have in, just so part of the squad could still join, and even then had problems getting the randoms to join voice comms... they just ran off and did their own thing again. The frustrating thing is that we need community support in this.. but only the management in the corps have this problem, the vast populace will be clueless about this issue and won't be concerned as they believe it won't effect them. I think this is going to become a massive issue when planetary conquest starts if it's not addressed. ... I'm not one who believes in bumping threads to keep them noticeable.. but due to such a minority being concerned about this issue.. despite it's impact being collosal if it means you end up losing terrirory... i have had no choice. But if i don't get support from the community on this soon, i think i'm going to have no choice but to give up trying to revive this issue. ... Please, if you or your corp want to be involved in planetary conquest.. then it's for your own good to support this now before you lose territory because your pre-battle organisation gets shot to pieces because the team you selected doesn't make it into the battle. .. Or if people are aware that CCP are aware of this and are tackling it, then please show me where it's been mentioned. I've tried to find it but to no avail. Thanks again for your time and consideration guys and girls...
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 55	Posted - 2013.03.29 23:24:00 - [6] - Quote While the easy answer would be, organize your corp, I can see why this is a problem. The fixes you mentioned would work for your problem, make sure it's not because of discontent among your corp. My corp, for instance, is putting together an A team for important matches. While this is great, everyone in the corp wants to participate in matches that MATTER, and failure to allow them a voice will result in discontent and possibly revolt. Make sure to keep your corp happy.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2680	Posted - 2013.03.29 23:47:00 - [7] - Quote Hey, We agree there needs to be a way for the CEO and directors of a corporation to control who is in a match. We won't be brining any changes to this for Uprising, but we are looking at things we can do after Uprising at some point. We are currently thinking of adding the ability to kick people from the match if you are a CEO or Director. For now, make sure people joining your corporation understand that they shouldn't be joining these matches unless told to do so. Not the greatest solution, but we are aware and looking at solutions. :)

NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 8	Posted - 2013.03.30 00:07:00 - [8] - Quote Thank you slypie11 and Foxfour for your replies, i really appreciate it. I understand that it will take time to address, so no worries, i am patient enough for it, i just wanted to ensure it would be noticed. Once again, thanks for your consideration. :) As for discontent, yep we have an open door policy, so there could indeed be some discontent, however i think it's more down to not being aware of the situation. Due to there being no corp announcement system, nor any way to restrict or notify players.. plus the fact some players dont even bother checking chat... It means there will always be some oblivious player who will be looking for battles.. be curious enough to tab to corp battles, notice a match pending.. then wait to join at the right time. So that situation is quite difficult to control without the CEO being able to remove the random from the game, or password protect it, or some other measure. :) So hearing from FoxFour is very reassuring :) Thanks again.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 56	Posted - 2013.03.30 00:31:00 - [9] - Quote there is a corp channel on the forums, just hope people check them. Also, you can send mail, although corp wide mail may be EVE only
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 9	Posted - 2013.03.30 00:35:00 - [10] - Quote Yep, corp mail is eve only, and as we're finding.. quite a few ps3 users dont actually have pc's to check the forums, but we are using the forums. :) appreciate the extra advise :)

slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 56	Posted - 2013.03.30 00:41:00 - [11] - Quote If they don't have pc's, use mac :)
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 175	Posted - 2013.03.30 14:54:00 - [12] - Quote Nano, as a CEO I have also had this situation occur so I would definitely support your suggestions. I like idea number 2 but perhaps even a combination of the 2 suggestions would be best giving flexibility in how to manage team composition.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 41	Posted - 2013.05.19 10:19:00 - [13] - Quote I'm just hoping to revive this thread as the problem is ongoing. Foxfour kindly replied before to let us know your all aware of the issue, but i can imagine how snowed under all the dev's are with all the issues at the moment as i also work in the games industry as a coder myself. So just hoping to remind the dev's that this is still a pressing issue and caused us problems yesterday with a PC match also. I also just responded to another thread with the quote i'll display below: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=818826#post818826 NanoCleric wrote: I personally think the most important thing at the moment is being able to control who is present in the battle. For instance: You create 3 squads over corp/alliance chat, the leaders have all the members in their squads waiting and ready, the queue opens and we enter the battle only to find a random member or 2 have joined solo and prevent the last squad from joining. As a director, once your in the warbarge, you cannot remove members from battle, you dont even have the corp management so that you can remove a member from your corp temporarily if they dont listen to you asking them to leave the battle. What we need is the ability to assign 3 names to a battle which will dictate the squad leaders who are permitted to join that battle.. or simply a way of ensuring someone in the corp has roles which allow them to select a person in the warbarge and remove them from the battle. So that you can bring your organised squad in. Essentially we'd want to use the time on the warbarge to discuss the battle and organise for it. However.. sometimes you end up just spending the whole 10 minutes trying to get a random to leave so that you can bring the other squad in, so you enter the battle totally unprepped. It would also be extremely useful if a director or /differentRole/ had a menu option to force all current team members onto team audio. As again.. it can take up a good proportion of time on the warbarge just getting members to read chat and enable their voice comms in team chat, even if they dont have a mic and it's only to listen. Hopefully we can remind the dev's this is still costing us matches, only we're losing more now as they are PC matches. Cheers.
G Torq ALTA B2O 145	Posted - 2013.05.19 11:00:00 - [14] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: I'm just hoping to revive this thread as the problem is ongoing. Foxfour kindly replied before to let us know your all aware of the issue, but i can imagine how snowed under all the dev's are with all the issues at the moment as i also work in the games industry as a coder myself. So just hoping to remind the dev's that this is still a pressing issue and caused us problems yesterday with a PC match also. I also just responded to another thread with the quote i'll display below: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=818826#post818826 NanoCleric wrote: I personally think the most important thing at the moment is being able to control who is present in the battle. Hopefully we can remind the dev's this is still costing us matches, only we're losing more now as they are PC matches. Cheers. Nano, if your corp isn't able to control its members, the problem is not the game, but your corp. I've heard a vicious rumor on YouTube, that your corp is quite laissez-faire about who it accepts - This may be part of your problem, and tightening the ranks would surely help you out here?
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 60	Posted - 2013.05.19 11:26:00 - [15] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: We agree there needs to be a way for the CEO and directors of a corporation to control who is in a match. We won't be brining any changes to this for Uprising, but we are looking at things we can do after Uprising at some point. We are currently thinking of adding the ability to kick people from the match if you are a CEO or Director. With Planetary Conquest costing corporations a lot of ISK, and Friendly Fire being enabled, you NEED to give a way to kick unwanted people from the battle. It would still allow for the truly skilled infiltrators to discretely sabotage a battle, but overly obvious "LOL WE BROUGHT 6 PPL INTO THE BATTLE TO DISRUPT YOU" would be avoided.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 43	Posted - 2013.05.19 11:42:00 - [16] - Quote G Torq wrote: Nano, if your corp isn't able to control its members, the problem is not the game, but your corp. I've heard a vicious rumor on YouTube, that your corp is quite laissez-faire about who it accepts - This may be part of your problem, and tightening the ranks would surely help you out here? Yeah, we are open to all, and yes one way to solve it would be to clamp down and be very strict and have a rigourous vetting process, i do agree. But that is overkill in my honest opinion when a simple kick mechanic gives the control that a corp needs. So while yes you are right that is one way to deal with, i dont think it's a good option overall for a welcoming corp which is what we are. At the end of the day we'll suffer losses, we'll also get some wins, we'll get spied on, troll'd etc.. etc... which is all part and parcel of it.. and if we lose stuff.. then oh well.. we'll just bounce back and try and take it back. The to'ing and fro'ing we really don't mind. It gives people a place to just have fun without having to worry about the militant seriousness that a lot of others want to stand by. In my opinion i believe both styles of management should be viable. So all there needs to be is some more control mechanics. If you play eve you'll be aware of how much extra control we have there, and all we ask for is similar control mechanics (although tempered to the different genre obviously) in dust. We're fine with espionage and honoured that people want to infiltrate us and try and troll us, gives us a laugh, but at the end of the day the game still needs to have elements of fun. Don't forget console players aren't used to this kind of environment and may just drop the game as a result because no matter what they can't get things organised because there's no tools to help them. So it's in CCP's interest to keep their member base as large as they can (Without dumbing it down as that would kill the game) .. and the best way to do that is to at least make it slightly difficult for espionage. At the moment it's stupidly easy :) .. at least make it a challenge and if they are found out, let the corps be able to deal with them. Don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a simple kick mechanic at all. Imagine someone infiltrating, becoming a director, getting into a match, then kicking everyone from the battle.. oh it would happen and that would be fine.. corps fault for making them director.. and that we wouldn't be asking for help on. That's metagaming, but just having randoms causing problems out of ignorance rather than down to espionage is just frustrating for all.. that's not metagaming :)
DJINN Punisher Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 123	Posted - 2013.05.19 11:49:00 - [17] - Quote The ability to remove a player from PC battles needs to be implemented, being forced to keep a player in that was not selected for the battle is a horrid move by ccp, with team killing on in pc battles, it opens a gateway for players to join just for that purpose, which in effect would cause players who purchased aurum gear to lose "real money" equipment as a result of an open problem. Possibly CCP wants us to burn our gear in this fashion so they can sell us more. I would hope not... but being that our supposed player advocate "CPM Jenza's" own corporation is using this loophole to effect player's corporations. I'm guessing ccp won't do anything about it. This being said the best way for corporations to safe guard themselves is to tell all new players coming into the game to take a hike. I'm sure this will effect the amount of players that will stay with this fps, but hey at least we won't have to worry about being team killed by a loophole that should be fixed. This is not spying, this is a forced action, corporations have no choice and any player can effect them in this manor. This is a weak tactic... On behalf of the League of Infamy we won't use this... their is no district worth the damage this does to the community, and longevity of this game.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy 989	Posted - 2013.05.19 13:05:00 - [18] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Hey, We agree there needs to be a way for the CEO and directors of a corporation to control who is in a match. We won't be brining any changes to this for Uprising, but we are looking at things we can do after Uprising at some point. We are currently thinking of adding the ability to kick people from the match if you are a CEO or Director. For now, make sure people joining your corporation understand that they shouldn't be joining these matches unless told to do so. Not the greatest solution, but we are aware and looking at solutions. :) This (bold text added to area) was going to be my suggestion but I'm more than happy to have CCP beat me to the punch here. Also on a more current note any chance we'll be seeing this functionality added next build? There are already Corps getting burned in PC battles because of this. On a related note give the CEO/Dirs the option to open PC battles up Alliance wide. It would save a lot on logistics especially if someone in your alliance but not your corp gets d/c'ed during a match. Cheers, Cross
CEOPyrex CloneA The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 152	Posted - 2013.05.19 17:11:00 - [19] - Quote Great idea and still baffling why this was missed
Fenrir XIII Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 4	Posted - 2013.05.20 06:33:00 - [20] - Quote I think you need to hop on this asap CCP. And should be more than just another "looking into" and should have been thought about during Uprising. Saying it isn't gonna be implemented in Uprising makes the situation completely flaccid, and no one enjoys flaccid. Because we know it's gonna be forever since the next release is out. Especially since the fact aurum has been brought up. I don't participate in PC at the moment. And I already know this. I know you guys are hard at work though. Just keep at it.

The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 259	Posted - 2013.05.20 06:58:00 - [21] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Yep, corp mail is eve only, and as we're finding.. quite a few ps3 users dont actually have pc's to check the forums, but we are using the forums. :) appreciate the extra advise :) There should be an in game browser to allow mercs to hit the forums from the PS3. The input method sucks without a keyboard but if you need it the it is a small prices to pay.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 259	Posted - 2013.05.20 07:09:00 - [22] - Quote I am not a director or anything of importance and I knew this was going to happen. I don't see how all the other CEO/directors didn't see it. The problem is corporate not mechanics, don't allow people who are unknown to have access to corporate battles. Yes, we need a more robust set of tools to help with this but corporations with a anything goes and anyone can join attitudes deserve what they got. If mercs are not following orders then the problem is in the command structure and in the ranks.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 45	Posted - 2013.05.20 11:03:00 - [23] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I am not a director or anything of importance and I knew this was going to happen. I don't see how all the other CEO/directors didn't see it. The problem is corporate not mechanics, don't allow people who are unknown to have access to corporate battles. Yes, we need a more robust set of tools to help with this but corporations with a anything goes and anyone can join attitudes deserve what they got. If mercs are not following orders then the problem is in the command structure and in the ranks. Sorry i don't agree with some of that. Essentially if a corp wants to be open to new players, then they should be able to do so while still maintaining some level of control via the use of in game management tools. Just as you would have in any other walk of 'real' life and also in other games where you run a corp/guild/clan. The only way at present to be able to be an open corp and control the people who enter the battles is to have a seperate holding corp, you have management in there and then all the other members would be in the member corp. So the only way they can join battles is via people in the management corp. However there are many flaws with this too.. while logged in on the management corp then you have no control over the member corp, can't keep an eye on corp channels etc... It would kinda force members to use shared forums and shared channels more which can be a good thing, but there certainly is a division. Some people would care about those things and others wouldn't.. remember that everyone is different and has different principles, ambitions and goals. So there are workarounds, but i do sincerely believe that it's a lot of extra faff.. and not the way CCP obviously designed the system, otherwise the holding corp would be able to edit and maintain the members corp while logged into a holding corp. So no, CCP want ceo's to be active in the corp they run and just haven't given us a full set of working management tools as yet. So with some more control over battles, with even just a kick mechanic.. it would mean ceo's could run their battles properly without someone who is naieve sabotaging it.. Note i'm not on about espionage here.. that could still happen. At the moment though, it's people who don't read mail, chat, forums etc.. that cause the problems out of ignorance. Some people would say "Just kick them out" .. but others wouldn't want to as it's not right.. they'd want to edjucate them how it should work. Even CCP have said they do agree a kick ability is needed. I personally think in addition to that we need a way to reserve just 1 space in a battle for someone who is a CEO/Director/(Other commanding role).. so that even if an entire hoard of players make it into the battle somehow (incredibly unlikely).. then the people in control can still enter and sort things out.
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 51	Posted - 2013.05.21 09:12:00 - [24] - Quote CCP, don't suppose we can get an update on when we might get more tools to control players within a battle? (Awaits the inevitable SoonTM)
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 47	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:30:00 - [25] - Quote I think with the statement from CCP about no new controls for CEOs and directors, we will have to wait the prescribed 3 months before the next build is ready. Of course not planning to and patching this anyways would probably get PC rolling in a more meaningful way than before. Also with their reluctance to fix the issue at the moment seeing as how its only one line of code to add another region to PC and seeing that all districts are currently occupied, perhaps expanding PC is a possibility. I personally would prefer the patch to add CEO/Director controls but I'm not picky.


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