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Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
75
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Posted - 2013.03.27 17:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Copied over from a thread I started "Blueprints vs Manufacturing", since this is effectively the same topic:
Quote:TL;DR: Manufacturing of items from BPs before combat is needed for market integration with Eve. How will this work?
In Dust we have blueprints for all of our gear: Dropsuits, weapons, modules, equipment, vehicles, etc. When we purchase these from the markets we're buying either a BPO (blueprint original) which allows unlimited uses, or a BPC (blueprint copy), which has limited use (1 per BPC in Dust).
So far as this goes, we're in line with the way Eve Online works. Capsuleers also buy BPOs and BPCs from NPC markets or from each other and they also allow unlimited use for BPOs and limited use from BPCs (BPCs are actually made using BPOs, allowing someone with a BPO to create and sell BPCs).
However, in Eve, there is another step required before you can take the shiny ship you bought the blueprint for out for a spin: manufacturing. You must gather or purchase the required materials needed to manufacture the item, put it in a factory (located for Eve pilots on NPC stations or Player Owned Structures), and wait a certain period before the item is ready to use. For really large items, such as outposts and Titans, the components must be manufactured then taken to a structure in space where they are then turned into the final product (assuming they are not blown up by other pilots. New Eden is a harsh place).
This process is the cornerstone of the much-vaunted Eve economy: Each stage of this process has value: Minerals must be collected and people are willing to pay to have them collected for them; The minerals must be refined and transported; manufacturing must occur. Skills in Eve make some players more efficient at these than others, so there is a profit margin at each stage. A combat player without industrial skills can collect, refine, and transport the materials, then take the blueprint and manufacture the item themselves, but it is a) boring for combat pilots (industrialists love it), b) time consuming, and c) potentially more expensive than just buying the item off of the market.
In order to have true market integration with Eve, Dust will need some sort of manufacturing. But what? We can't collect minerals, so we'd be dependent on Eve for them (not ideal), and in any case, a lot of our gear (basically everything except equipment) is manufactured on the battlefield as needed (at least, I assume that's what's happening, since I can spawn at A or B or C and not have to worry where I left my assault rifles). Vehicles are transported from off-map, so that is probably something that needs manufacturing.
If the spawn process was changed to an orbital drop, then manufacturing makes more sense. Items are manufactured and stored on the warbarge, then you wake up in a clone, suit up, and drop. But that doesn't answer how we're going to get the materials needed to build the stuff in the first place. I'm also an Eve pilot, so I know they can't be trusted
How should this work? Should we be able to access minerals from the Eve market? Should PC districts produce minerals? ideas? comments? |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
75
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Posted - 2013.03.27 18:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Quote:To reiterate, there would be NO manufacturing time. If you had the materials and the blueprints you could make a 'copy package' instantaneously. However, it would take time to research your BPO to the point where you could make a profit selling your copies for cheaper than NPCs.
Why not? I mean, I don't think it should be a long time, especially for simple items, but NO time? That seems off.
Let's say that it takes 0.5 seconds to manufacture an assault rifle. If you need an assault rifle during a battle, then it'll cost you an extra half a second to build one, each time you die. That's assuming that all you need is the rifle, you've got all the materials in place, and the warbarge can do the manufacturing (which I think it should).
Now, if you're completely out of a fit, and you need to manufacture suit, weapon, and modules, then a single run might go as high as 30 seconds, especially if you're talking high-end gear, which probably will have a higher material cost and a higher manufacturing time.
This does several things. Firstly, it adds value to manufacturing. If you need a GunLogi chassis in the middle of a battle, and it takes 5 minutes to build, you're going to buy it off the market, since you can get it immediately (let's leave off the question of delivery of goods for now) without the manufacturing time. And you'll pay more than it would cost you to build it yourself since 5 minutes is worth a lot of ISK in a battle.
Secondly, it introduces a secondary cost to manufacturing. If the material cost has an overhead per manufacturing job (for example, you pay a flat fee to access the foundry per job), then it is obviously cheaper to run 100 runs (assuming you have the BPCs) than 10. But, if it takes 10 times longer to run 100 runs than 10, then you've got to balance the costs and benefits. |
Klivve Cussler
Ransoms Incorporated
75
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:Please read carefully. Your lead time would come from resynching/researching the BPO. They would be unusable during this process. This mechanic would throttle how many things everyone could manufacture on a daily basis.
Oh I see. That could work. That might even be better, but I think that CCP will go with an approach that has BPs working the same in Eve and Dust, though, so that eventually Dust gear can be manufactured by Eve players and vice versa.
Actually, there is no reason why I can't, today, without any new functionality, become an Eve industrialist as a Dust Merc. The only functionality I would need is available now to Eve pilots in a station and not available in Dust mercs in MQ. Specifically Contracts, Markets, and Manufacturing. I might not own a ship, but most of the serious industrialists that I know in Eve hardly ever undock from the stations.
With Markets I can order materials and sell the products anywhere within the region (with the right skills). Contracts would enable me to hire pilots to move the materials and the products to where I need them, and manufacturing would allow me to build. It would be a good way to offset the costs of warfare, since the mercenary life isn't always the most profitable, even if you are immortal. Given that, I would guess that CCP will attempt to align the manufacturing systems as much as possible to allow for the maximum eventual crossover. |
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