DUST Search - We are in Commercial Release

Sloth9230 wrote:

Altina McAlterson wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

So for those into the whole "commercial release" debate, is Playstation Home in commercial release?

/rolls in asbestos and exits stage left

EDIT:

Sloth9230 wrote:

There should be two options as far as the refund

1. Give up a portion of your SP to refund your merc pack with the 30 day booster
2. Get the merc pack back without a booster. Maybe throw in a three day booster as a gift.

^This actually seems pretty reasonable.

Are they selling you stuff?

Does it matter? No. Everyone seems to think the "Commercial Release" is related to payment. I've said it 1,000 times and I'm going to keep saying it until everybody stops being stupid. "Commercial Release" is a stage of development that indicates the software does not need any additional testing and no additional code is to be added. It is when the developer says it is. They can charge for whatever the hell they want so long as they make it clear what you are buying. Which they did. So it's BETA until they say otherwise.

I guess if you want to see it that way. And yes, people do know what they're getting themselves into, still suckers unless they're buying boosters.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 427	Posted - 2013.03.27 20:05:00 - [1] - Quote I'm still thinking that this has nothing to do with CCP. You bought the item from PSN store so I don't see how CCP is going to be under any obligation to do anything.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 428	Posted - 2013.03.28 01:35:00 - [2] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: ICECREAMK1NG wrote: CCP Eterne wrote: We are not in Commercial Release. Any statements of such from a GM was inaccurate. Wrong. Anyone who owns a playstation is able to download this game. CCP are taking money for products in this game, that is commerce. This is a commercial release. I pretty much agree with this statement. Commercial release is a legal term, and I don't think CCP gets to define what it means to suit their desires. I'm no lawyer though. I've seen this in other betas as well, namely MWO. They get around this issue by referring, not to commercial release, but to "launch" a made up term that the they can define however they want. No no, ICECREAM is right on this one. Commercial Release just means it's available to everyone, technically that would just make it an open beta, but the fact that they're charging for items brings it back to commercial release. Or is everyone who buys Aurum items at this point simply making donations? I don't think so CCP. So yeah, it's an incomplete game, but it's an incomplete game that they're selling If anyone can link some proof of any of this that would be very helpful. Especially any links that confirm companies are required by law to call the game an "open BETA" or "Commercial Release" because some criteria has been met. Since this is a download-only game there's no manufacturer to ship it to for production, so it seems the commercial release is whenever the hell CCP feels it calling it that. Until proof shows up there's this crap. These aren't intended to be conclusive, but it does seem apparent the BETA vs Release is based solely on the what the company thinks the state of the game is, not any other factors. http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/56334-clarification-closed-beta-vs-open-beta-vs-releaselaunch-and-status/ http://mmohuts.com/editorials/what-does-closed-beta-mean I know those aren't links to precedent cases before the Supreme Court but it's interesting that the mechwarrior thread is very similar to what is being said here but I still haven't seen proof of any of it. Got tired of googling it after like 5 minutes.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 428	Posted - 2013.03.28 02:00:00 - [3] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: If anyone can link some proof of any of this that would be very helpful. Especially any links that confirm companies are required by law to call the game an "open BETA" or "Commercial Release" because some criteria has been met. Since this is a download-only game there's no manufacturer to ship it to for production, so it seems the commercial release is whenever the hell CCP feels it calling it that. Remember what I said about stabbing people with a knife? Whether a court/CCP calls this a commercial release or not has nothing to do whether it actually is one. CCP can deny it, but they are selling an incomplete product. Yea, I remember. But we're arguing two different things. You're talking about an event that either did or did not happen. I'm talking about something that is not concrete. A commercial release is one that the company feels is ready to be called the "Final Product." Traditionally it would be when it was sent to the manufacturer, or when the game code was complete and locked with no plans for future major changes. Since this is a game that they plan to continually add on to I guess it would mean one that they feel comfortable not having to have a big "Don't worry! We're gonna add more stuff!" disclaimer at the top of it. DUST is free, you bought AUR. No one made you buy AUR. It's a Commercial Release when they say it is. Because it's a term that expresses where the company feels the game is in the development cycle. These aren't laws, or set in stone things like everyone seems to think. It's honestly just semantics but there's literally nothing else to talk about.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 428	Posted - 2013.03.28 02:18:00 - [4] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: DUST is free, you bought AUR. I bought nothing Well played.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 431	Posted - 2013.03.28 03:28:00 - [5] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: So for those into the whole "commercial release" debate, is Playstation Home in commercial release? /rolls in asbestos and exits stage left EDIT: Sloth9230 wrote: There should be two options as far as the refund 1. Give up a portion of your SP to refund your merc pack with the 30 day booster 2. Get the merc pack back without a booster. Maybe throw in a three day booster as a gift. ^This actually seems pretty reasonable. Are they selling you stuff? Does it matter? No. Everyone seems to think the "Commercial Release" is related to payment. I've said it 1,000 times and I'm going to keep saying it until everybody stops being stupid. "Commercial Release" is a stage of development that indicates the software does not need any additional testing and no additional code is to be added. It is when the developer says it is. They can charge for whatever the hell they want so long as they make it clear what you are buying. Which they did. So it's BETA until they say otherwise.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 431	Posted - 2013.03.28 03:34:00 - [6] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: So for those into the whole "commercial release" debate, is Playstation Home in commercial release? /rolls in asbestos and exits stage left EDIT: Sloth9230 wrote: There should be two options as far as the refund 1. Give up a portion of your SP to refund your merc pack with the 30 day booster 2. Get the merc pack back without a booster. Maybe throw in a three day booster as a gift. ^This actually seems pretty reasonable. Are they selling you stuff? Does it matter? No. Everyone seems to think the "Commercial Release" is related to payment. I've said it 1,000 times and I'm going to keep saying it until everybody stops being stupid. "Commercial Release" is a stage of development that indicates the software does not need any additional testing and no additional code is to be added. It is when the developer says it is. They can charge for whatever the hell they want so long as they make it clear what you are buying. Which they did. So it's BETA until they say otherwise. I guess if you want to see it that way. And yes, people do know what they're getting themselves into, still suckers unless they're buying boosters. I'm just curious as to what you mean by "see it that way"? I'm not being a jerk, I just don't understand what everyone is so confused about.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 431	Posted - 2013.03.28 03:47:00 - [7] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: I'm just curious as to what you mean by "see it that way"? I'm not being a jerk, I just don't understand what everyone is so confused about. It depends on what you see as CR, I see it the instant they start selling a product, So to me this is CR. Ok. But that's not what it means, so I guess that's the issue. And they sold AUR. No one made you use it now. Not like the stuff expires. Call it Commercial Release all you want, so long as you understand that it isn't that at all I guess.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 433	Posted - 2013.03.28 05:21:00 - [8] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Altina McAlterson wrote: [quote=Sloth9230][quote=Altina McAlterson] I'm just curious as to what you mean by "see it that way"? I'm not being a jerk, I just don't understand what everyone is so confused about. Commercial release for sofware simply means it's available to everyone for purchase instead of only an exclusive group of people having access to it No it doesn't. So an open BETA doesn't exist? If it's open then it is available to everyone and so therefor has to be a commercial release? You said "for purchase", maybe that's your metric then? How much did you pay for your copy of DUST? I'm beginning to hope you are trolling me because I'm starting to get concerned. So who has jurisdiction over what CCP calls it? DEA? ATF? RIAA? They're from Iceland but this DEV team is in China so maybe it's Interpol? A company can sell a "BETA" as easily as they can sell a "Commercial Release" so long as it is expressly understood what it is you are paying for. So now that argument can be put to bed and people can stop sounding stupid. It says BETA at the top, it's a BETA. Nothing makes it anything else until the company says so. Simple concept, really. It is what CCP says it is. There is no room for debate or misunderstanding. It has nothing to do with them selling AUR or not. It has nothing to do with who has access to it. These are terms used by software developers to communicate where they feel the game is in the development cycle. They've been accepting money for it since the beginning of closed BETA, right? So I'm guessing everyone thinks it never was a BETA and just went straight to commercial release?
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 435	Posted - 2013.03.28 06:13:00 - [9] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: CCP can call it whatever they want, it doesn't change what it is. Ok, we're done. I was debating this with you because I was bored and it was what I thought a simple concept. I'm still bored and its still simple but this isn't any fun any more. You have addressed exactly none of the points I've made. If you want to debate someone it is good practice to listen to what they say and respond to them. Ignoring them completely and just saying "everything is what I think it is because I said so" doesn't get anybody anywhere. And also that phrase I quoted up there just plain makes me sad.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 437	Posted - 2013.03.28 11:22:00 - [10] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Let me make this simple for you. Take what we have now and put it on a disc, include an access code for a "free" merc pack, then send it to Gamestop and have them charge 20 for the game. You're going to tell me that that wasn't a commercial release? What difference does it make if people paid for Dust or the merc pack? People are still spending money on this. No, that wouldn't be Commercial Release if it still a BETA. I swore I was done with this but it's DT and I seriously can't let this fly. For the umpteenth time, the words "Commercial Release" are industry terms and have nothing to do with whether or not it was paid for. Companies can charge for a BETA and it will still be a BETA and the can give away a title that is a Commercial Release for free. Again, just because you paid for it does not make it a Commercial Release. It simply means a stage in development that the company feels the product is complete enough to not need a disclaimer telling people that more features are coming. The Commercial Release stage also deals with how stable the developer think the product is and so on. A Commercial Release is not related to whether or not people pay for. Whether or not people pay for it has no bearing on it being in the Commercial Release stage. Whether or not people pay for it and the products status as BETA or Commercial Release are not related. If you read what I was saying you would see I've said this several times already. Do I need to go on? CCP, holy hell we need new content this can't be the only thing to talk about. It doesn't even matter...but I do love to debate things with people.

Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 437	Posted - 2013.03.28 12:03:00 - [11] - Quote Bleeding Antelope wrote: Could someone fill me in about this? I'm kind of lost in what we are losing in the next build that is causing this problem? We're not losing anything, don't worry. If you're not already outraged about it best not to get involved. Although this discussion actually seems to be about whether or not the game is still in open BETA or if it is now in the Commercial Release stage of development.