DUST Search - [ Proposal ] Gunship

Falco Bombardi wrote:

Gunships should possess a few key traits:

Nimble - Terrain hugging, intricate and tight maneuvers and weaving between obstacles are going to be necessary for gunships to be effective and survivable

2 man crew - Pilot should have an unguided forward firing weapon such as unguided rockets. Gunner would have control of the turret weapons. Either autocannons or pulse lasers or blasters, etc (Primary and secondary weapons for gunner, bringing vehicle grand total up to 3 including pilot "dumb" munitions)

Fast - The gunship will need to be able to dictate engagements for everything except dedicated air superiority fighters.

Fragile - To maintain game balance Dropships should be significantly toughened and Gunships should be quite thin skinned. They will need to rely on the EVE concept of "speed tanking" to essentially survive by not taking hits.

COCKPIT VIEW - This will be crucial, visibility needs to be excellent and the HUD needs to be effective. No way you can do close air support with a 3rd person view.

These are my two cents on the matter.

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Hunter Junko Bojo's School of the Trades 52	Posted - 2013.03.26 01:46:00 - [1] - Quote before most of you (all of you in fact) go on and say that use the search function, i actually want to delve deeper into the gunship class of aerial Vehicle should be, properly. first off, it should be an heavy aircraft class of vehicle, due to the fact that its going to be mostly anti-infantry operations. i'd reckon that the fast movers (fighter jets) will be the ones properly suited for dealing the heavy damage to installations and heavily armored vehicles. the minimum requirements of piloting a gunship should be 2 pilots. once the actual pilot controlling where the gunship would be, the other Pilot is the gunner/ defense specialist. he will pull the trigger when the time is right and when a threat appears that posed direct harm to the gunship, deploy countermeasures to evade said threat. this will require a level of teamwork that tops everything else in the battlefield. A highly efficient Gunship ,controlled by two pilots who trust each other to keep each other alive can become a valuable asset to any who benefit. this will naturally take away the OP aspect of this gunship; 1. one pilot flying the gunship is just a worthless as a dropship in the current state its in. 2. two pilots who have poor communications will be less effective, and therefore more prone to being shot down control of a gunship, you will often be tasked with repelling enemy troops, since it will be soon a 6-man squad, 2 can pilot the gunships, while the rest go and join the front. the gunship can also serve another purpose as a reconnaissance aircraft. to report in potential threats and to deal with them should the time arise. that all i can think of now, will add more when the time comes :] Safe hunting.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 307	Posted - 2013.03.26 01:52:00 - [2] - Quote While I agree with the 2 person operation, taking away the Pilot-controlled aspect of any warfare would be counter-productive. Instead, allow the 'Pilot' To fire the Forward fitted Weapons (Slots that he can fit 2 small guns or more, that fire only forward), and have a second high-powered weapon turret slot that the co-pilot controls.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 833	Posted - 2013.03.26 01:58:00 - [3] - Quote agreed with jackal, a setup similar to what you see in battlefield would work well.
Hunter Junko Bojo's School of the Trades 52	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:17:00 - [4] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: While I agree with the 2 person operation, taking away the Pilot-controlled aspect of any warfare would be counter-productive. Instead, allow the 'Pilot' To fire the Forward fitted Weapons (Slots that he can fit 2 small guns or more, that fire only forward), and have a second high-powered weapon turret slot that the co-pilot controls. i understand where your coming from and i agree, but looking at it from a pilots point of view...(mimicking the dropship controls) no, i dont think the main pilot would be able to fire off the fixed guns. if anything, the pilot's aim would be terribly innaccurate. and alot of ammunition would be wasted. since im basing the controls of the Dropship with this proposal, i'd imagine the gunship being similar in design. here is my theory on your suggestions: L2- decrease throttle R2- increase throttle Left control stick-controls pitch and roll. Right control stick.- controls yaw- camera -Possible idea to implement limited offensive capabilites- Hold L1 and use the R. stick? what weapons? railguns, or missile installations? how to implement; co-pilot provides the lock, the pilot fires the fixed weapon using R1. both receive the same amount of warpoints because of said teamwork? this is what i thought up of, so feel free to add/remove stuff Safe hunting
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1097	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:22:00 - [5] - Quote I like it, but if you do it right two crew members will make it far more powerful than a solo craft. The pilot and gunner could concentrate solely on heir task rather than divide their attention.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 697	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:27:00 - [6] - Quote I was thinking more along the lines of 3 person crew. Four small Turrets. 2 small turrets to the side, and a gunner to the side. Gunner not exposed. Basically dual turrets being operated. Would be pretty great for missile turrets and Blasters especially.
Falco Bombardi The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 6	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:28:00 - [7] - Quote Falco Bombardi wrote: Gunships should possess a few key traits: Nimble - Terrain hugging, intricate and tight maneuvers and weaving between obstacles are going to be necessary for gunships to be effective and survivable 2 man crew - Pilot should have an unguided forward firing weapon such as unguided rockets. Gunner would have control of the turret weapons. Either autocannons or pulse lasers or blasters, etc (Primary and secondary weapons for gunner, bringing vehicle grand total up to 3 including pilot "dumb" munitions) Fast - The gunship will need to be able to dictate engagements for everything except dedicated air superiority fighters. Fragile - To maintain game balance Dropships should be significantly toughened and Gunships should be quite thin skinned. They will need to rely on the EVE concept of "speed tanking" to essentially survive by not taking hits. COCKPIT VIEW - This will be crucial, visibility needs to be excellent and the HUD needs to be effective. No way you can do close air support with a 3rd person view. These are my two cents on the matter. From another thread about Gunships.
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1097	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:30:00 - [8] - Quote Fixed guns on a dropship would be near worthless as it rarely points its nose at a target. I suppose you could exchange the camera look function on the right stick for a gun elevation/depression control and use X to fire. The pilot would then use the right stick to aim the gun. Or you could shift yaw control to USB rudder pedals and give the right stick entirely to the gun control. That would be awesome.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 833	Posted - 2013.03.26 02:45:00 - [9] - Quote What about a fixed weapon system for the pilot on the nose and have wing mounted turrets with 360*rotation? and I'd rather see the pilot's weapon system behave like the AH in battlefield where you aim with the entire aircraft. Keeps the controls simple and means experienced and new pilots alike are less likely to mess up and crash. we need to keep controls similar across all craft.
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 73	Posted - 2013.03.26 17:29:00 - [10] - Quote I like the idea of a two man crew, but the pilot should still have his own firepower and control over modules, but the gunner should have command over the really big guns.

Skihids The Tritan Industries 1101	Posted - 2013.03.26 19:12:00 - [11] - Quote gbghg wrote: What about a fixed weapon system for the pilot on the nose and have wing mounted turrets with 360*rotation? and I'd rather see the pilot's weapon system behave like the AH in battlefield where you aim with the entire aircraft. Keeps the controls simple and means experienced and new pilots alike are less likely to mess up and crash. we need to keep controls similar across all craft. As a pilot you do know that aiming with the nose only works if you are strafing, right?
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 844	Posted - 2013.03.26 19:19:00 - [12] - Quote Skihids wrote: gbghg wrote: What about a fixed weapon system for the pilot on the nose and have wing mounted turrets with 360*rotation? and I'd rather see the pilot's weapon system behave like the AH in battlefield where you aim with the entire aircraft. Keeps the controls simple and means experienced and new pilots alike are less likely to mess up and crash. we need to keep controls similar across all craft. As a pilot you do know that aiming with the nose only works if you are strafing, right? My main concern is that we might end up with incredibly unwieldy controls for the DS3, hence why I would like to see the aiming mechanics similar to battlefield 3, where the controls were robust and worked. I'd hate to end up with some control scheme were I would be unable to quickly maneuver or aim, and die as a result of this.
ARF 1049 The Phoenix Federation 7	Posted - 2013.03.26 19:19:00 - [13] - Quote just stick 2 light weapons and a heavy weapon on the bottom of an RDV then you can have a full squad in the ship 2 light 1 heavy and 1 pilot? 180* swivel for the large turret and the standard out the side swivel for the small ones?
Hunter Junko Bojo's School of the Trades 56	Posted - 2013.03.27 23:09:00 - [14] - Quote Bump. more discussions, more ideas need to be thrown around. as for the controls. I've decided to go with my gut and say that the roles of the pilot and copilot/gunner should be separate from the other. while i do understand that firing the main guns reserved only for the co-pilot is somewhat counter-intuitive depending on the situation; given the limitations of the controls of the dropship alone, it's very unlikely to make any effect. if we went ahead and made the gunship were you can fire off your guns as the pilot you'd have to worry about: Your location your distance from the target. potential threats and the status of your bird. Range towards said target. overheating of the guns. priority over what target to attack first enemy troop movement and so on and so forth. That's why the version of the gunship i propose had a sole emphasis in Teamwork. and like it or not, this relationship exists in Dropships right now. There's this sort of symbiosis given the relationship of the pilot of the Dropship and his/her gunners. the pilot gets into position, and the gunner fires off the rounds and with a mic, warns the pilot of any threats/additional intel the pilot is unaware of at the current moment in time. Although the gunner is relaying this information, ultimately its the pilots decision what to do with said information. when a decision is made, the pilot relays his move to the gunners, so that they can prepare for whats next. this sort of relationship is what separated the incompetent gunners from the capable and effective kinds; Clear communication between the pilot and the gunner. the gunship version i proposed takes this relationship to another level, subtracting the additional responsibilities of troop transport and replacing it, a focus on anti-infantry or anti vehicle operations. That is my idea behind the 2-man crew for the gunship. i wish to hear more of your thoughts on this matter please. -Safe Hunting
Hunter Junko Bojo's School of the Trades 57	Posted - 2013.03.29 06:23:00 - [15] - Quote shameless bump :D
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1	Posted - 2013.03.29 07:06:00 - [16] - Quote I would say keep them similar to dropships in many regards, but give them a light bump to either shields or armor (depending on the type) as well as PG/CPU, and give them 4 small hard points for turrets: 2 door gunners, 1 forward facing belly gunner, and one rear facing tail gunner. The pilot's job is just that: to be a beast pilot that can keep the bird steady when there is the need, and escape danger when that need arises as well (as well as rack up kill assist WP's for their trouble).
Charlotte O'Dell Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 78	Posted - 2013.03.29 18:18:00 - [17] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: I would say keep them similar to dropships in many regards, but give them a light bump to either shields or armor (depending on the type) as well as PG/CPU, and give them 4 small hard points for turrets: 2 door gunners, 1 forward facing belly gunner, and one rear facing tail gunner. The pilot's job is just that: to be a beast pilot that can keep the bird steady when there is the need, and escape danger when that need arises as well (as well as rack up kill assist WP's for their trouble). +1
DESTROYER416 Militia Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.30 01:22:00 - [18] - Quote Farsund Solheim wrote: I would say keep them similar to dropships in many regards, but give them a light bump to either shields or armor (depending on the type) as well as PG/CPU, and give them 4 small hard points for turrets: 2 door gunners, 1 forward facing belly gunner, and one rear facing tail gunner. The pilot's job is just that: to be a beast pilot that can keep the bird steady when there is the need, and escape danger when that need arises as well (as well as rack up kill assist WP's for their trouble). this is more of the old style bombers whichs would be alot better for a bomber, however it is a really good idea,but for a gunship should be a 2 person limi,pilot and a gunner with mid armor and sheild, a gunship has to be able to take hits while dealing damage, i think a good gunship would mainly have a nose gun which would be a blaster or type of chaingun something like the HMG but bigger and missile pods, for countermeasures be so type of flares or a mini emp something around that area
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1115	Posted - 2013.03.30 01:40:00 - [19] - Quote Dropships aren't all that complicated to fly, and not that difficult once you put in sufficient practice. I've flown aerobatic aircraft with a stick and rudder and it is quite intuitive. It's the way all early aircraft were controlled. I would love to see Yaw moved to rudder pedals to free up the right stick. You could use it to aim a gun, but I'd like to see a well done 1st person cockpit and the right stick used exclusively for the look camera control. A good pilot always has his head on a swivel and his eyes outside the cockpit. It would be wonderfully immersive and give the pilot great situational awareness.
Farsund Solheim The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 4	Posted - 2013.03.30 06:18:00 - [20] - Quote DESTROYER416 wrote: Farsund Solheim wrote: I would say keep them similar to dropships in many regards, but give them a light bump to either shields or armor (depending on the type) as well as PG/CPU, and give them 4 small hard points for turrets: 2 door gunners, 1 forward facing belly gunner, and one rear facing tail gunner. The pilot's job is just that: to be a beast pilot that can keep the bird steady when there is the need, and escape danger when that need arises as well (as well as rack up kill assist WP's for their trouble). this is more of the old style bombers whichs would be alot better for a bomber, however it is a really good idea,but for a gunship should be a 2 person limi,pilot and a gunner with mid armor and sheild, a gunship has to be able to take hits while dealing damage, i think a good gunship would mainly have a nose gun which would be a blaster or type of chaingun something like the HMG but bigger and missile pods, for countermeasures be so type of flares or a mini emp something around that area Interesting take on the gunship there. Essentially, i was proposing a "lighter" version of the modern day AC-130 Spectre, whereas you are proposing a slightly heavier, 2 person version of the A-10 Thunderbolt II. I actually like the idea behind both of these, and would like to see something similar implemented in-game.



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