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Jathniel
G I A N T
103
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Posted - 2013.03.22 03:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
WARNING: Long read.
I've been here for the past 3 builds.
I'm noticing a pattern with this game's updates and changes that are increasingly depressing.
(You can just ask corp mates of mine. I'm not enjoying this game anymore.)
The priorities, scales, or templates used for balancing, whatever they may be, are totally off, and KEEP on going in that off-direction despite feedback from the more experienced testers.
I'm referring to ALMOST every petition issued on BEHALF of niche players.
Players argue that the Assault suit is supposed to be the most adaptable suit, and they argue that the assault rifle is supposed to be the most adaptable and versatile weapon.
Yet, with every update the burden of "adapting" is constantly being shifted toward the niche roles, which is exactly what you should not do. They are meant to specialize NOT adapt.
The niche roles are supposed to create the circumstances of the battle, and the utility roles (Assault/Logistics) are supposed adapt to those circumstances.
IN THAT ORDER.
The complete opposite is the current reality.
I have observed changes made to this game, that has made it increasingly MORE difficult for niche players.
- Removal of ladders.
- Increased red zone in Ambush.
- Tank nerfing.
- Heavy nerfing.
- etc.
Then when I read the dev notes, and weekly reports, all I mostly see are MORE things catering to the assault/utility role:
- Consideration of no-vehicle ambush game mode.
- Consideration of anti-red line sniping methods.
- etc.
CCP, you are going the wrong way with your balancing efforts. Completely the wrong way.
Stop making the game itself easier for the class who's job it is to ADAPT, and simply make ADAPTING easier.
Example:
Instead of giving Assault suits a ton of HP (which currently enables them to 1v1 Heavies), give them the ability to change what type of ammo their shields can resist easier(maybe 50% damage reduction):
- Hybrid deflection mode
- Kinetic deflection mode
- Energy deflection mode
This way, they won't be the BEST defensively, just the most adaptable. They see a heavy? Kick in kin-def mode, and you have time to clear the HMG. A sniper firing at you? Kick in the hyb-def mode so you don't get 1-shot or 2-shot.
In turn, give snipers the ability to change ammo-type (which was the intention anyway), and make sure that heavies become king of infantry-combat again.
If you have the wrong shield mode active, the weapon will do significantly increased damage against you. This aspect could potentially give Type-1 and A-Series suits practical application again, since some Assault players would rather have the added insurance of some armor HP, in case they screw up juggling their defense modes.
This Adaptive Shielding concept (which would be exclusive to the assault suit) is just one idea.
The point I'm trying to drive home, is that you won't achieve balance by nerfing niche players, you're just angering us.
Stop catering to the whims of "nerf tanks" and "nerf heavies", or "stop the red line snipers", and give these cry babies the tools to actually adapt instead.
While you're at it... Please OPEN the Ambush maps back up!
I've been miserable at this game ever since the tighter red zones were introduced.
Using a Thale's sniper rifle recently, the zoom feature is so strong, it's clear that this weapon was meant to be used at ranges 500m or greater. If you don't open the maps back up this is going to be problematic.
Again, it's not the job of niche roles to adapt. It's our job to create circumstances.
It's the utility roles job to adapt, give them some well thought out and balanced tools to accomplish this, and give the niche roles back their power.
You guys have a lot of work to do. Luckily there is still plenty of time. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
763
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Posted - 2013.03.22 03:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
26
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Posted - 2013.03.22 08:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
This makes a ton of sense. +1 OP...
+1... |
Kray Dytt
THE DOLLARS
32
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Posted - 2013.03.22 09:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't really disagree with most of your suggestions here. The only issue I see is that they could implement it all and not change a damn thing about balance. I'm not saying it's all perfectly balanced now (and to be honest it never will be), I'm saying that changes like your suggesting would still be balanced by the same mechanics, which means it doesn't necessarily change anything about the position of niche players.
I agree completely that niche roles should be meaningful and fun to play. I also agree completely that CCP shouldn't nerf niche-roles because assault players get killed by them in their element. (red-zone sniping aside). I also wholeheartedly agree that maps need to be (much) bigger to allow for more useful application of niche roles (especially combined with larger team/squad sizes this would be probably the biggest boon to niche players imaginable).
I think the main issue with niche roles is that they aren't niche enough
To elaborate:
Take a Heavy with an HMG. They are supposed to be a walking tank. They are supposed to be able to withstand loads of damage, while dishing out massive damage as well. That sounds awesome. But, to not make them completely overpowered, all this has to be balanced. And that's where it goes t*ts up. Their mobility is less than an assault, but not so much as to make a solo heavy completely useless for running around killing people. To truly be a niche role, they'd have to be more powerful in their intended field, but less powerful outside of their comfort zone.
A niche role should fulfill a certain role on the battlefield. But they should not be able to fulfill other roles. They are, by definition, limited. They will also, by definition, have to rely more on the rest of their team. True niche players will shine in well-coordinated teams.
However, they should be in a cr*pload of trouble outside of their comfort zone. A sniper that gets found is basically dead. A heavy with an HMG that gets jumped from behind? Dead. A tank that drives out in the open without knowing if the area is safe? Dead. A medic without support? Dead. A shotgun scout that gets spotted before he reaches his target? Dead. Etc. Niche roles are a valuable asset to a team if applied/played correctly. The team will have to help them though.
I can't help but get the impression that you don't really want niche roles to work like this, but rather want them to simply be better than assaults, with possibly a minor downside here and there, which would turn assaults in to scrubs who simply haven't picked a cool specialisation.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
106
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Posted - 2013.03.22 20:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm not sure how you got that impression. I explained exactly what I have observed happened to and in this game over time. I explained why I think balance is an issue, because they are going about it the wrong way.
Balance can be achieved by enhancing the stated ROLES for each play-style. Enhance and enable the role to accomplish it's job.
When you limit the niche roles capacity to do its job, you are not going to achieve balance.
Assaults with assault rifles are the main ones that are supposed to adapt to circumstances, but they have no actual means of doing this(besides using their brains, but clearly they don't want to do this), and that's why people whine on the forums about tanks, heavies, and snipers all day every day.
So instead of giving them the tools to adapt to circumstances, and balancing the class that way, CCP instead opted to just make the game easier for them, by making the niche roles weaker and more vulnerable.
I listed the changes that actually happened to indicate this.
I gave an example of the kinds of buffs that an adaptability class should have, to help it fulfill its role, and be fun to play, without it displacing the purpose of niche roles.
-Assaults should NOT be tanks and dpsers in the same way that Heavies are, and Snipers should not be forced into the same combat range as Assaults.
-Assaults should have high defensive adaptation capacity, NOT tanking capacity.
Yet that is exactly what CCP has done more and more over time. It's now gone over the edge completely. Spec'd niche roles are next to useless vs. spec'd assaults with a shred of AV.
Assaults lay down the law on nearly every battlefield, and niche roles struggle to adapt. Niche roles are nothing more than minor nuisances that Assaults want to eradicate or completely escape from by going to their own game modes...
...and this too is being granted to them.
Why do you think players that are mainly niche roles are complaining about the ARs range or it's DPS, or it's accuracy, or how assaults are hard to kill?
Because it's harder for the niche role to adapt. Heavies get done up in 1v1s when Assaults have nearly matching HP levels and DPS, and Snipers spend more time running instead of sniping because they can't get the distance they need and are trying to avoid getting flanked for a whole match.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
106
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Posted - 2013.03.22 21:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let's take a walk down memory lane.
Assault vs. Sniper:
Previous build, Ambush maps were WIDE open, allowing for long range sniping. A sniper team could stay at long range and clone out the opposing side. Literally making the map totally hazardous for foot travel.
Snipers worked as intended.
The Assault players would compensate for this, by ascertaining the sniper's positions. Approach on foot was next to impossible. His guys would adapt by going from cover to cover, if they get hit, they had a medic.
One assault would play decoy while another assault ran flank.
Boom! Surprise flank on the entire sniper team. GG.
Snipers would laugh and give props for such a display of skill and adaptability. I know lots of guys that said, "Well played."
Back then, spawn location was more random, the snipers would have to pick up, and try to set-up somewhere else.
Assault vs. Heavy:
Couple builds back, Heavies were absolute demons (I don't mind that their durability was reduced, I just think it was reduced too much). You saw the roster, and you knew who was a heavy. If everyone knew a Heavy was lurking inside somewhere, they didn't go in there. Assaults would set up traps. One would go and lure the Heavy into a firing squad. You often needed 4 Assaults to take 1 Heavy down, even then they died hard. If you faced a team of Heavies, getting out into the open was absolutely vital. You tried to hold a line by dropping nanohives, and making sure your guys concentrated firepower. If you couldn't hold, you had to retreat, because 1 Heavy would eat up your entire flank.
Heavies were slow, and they knew this. Some of them got creative, and introduced the concept of driving around with an LAV, and jumping out the LAV at the last minute to perform surprise attacks. (Some old-school Heavies still do this.) The downside to this was they were vulnerable to insta-popping to AV nades, so you had to be quick.
Back then, good Assault players stood out by their ability to adapt. They had the disadvantage, but always adapted. It doesn't work that way anymore.
Ambush is cramped, and Heavies are weak.
The best offset for all of it was that not everyone could snipe.
Not everyone could run a heavy. I know I can't.
All that would have been necessary was to increase the number of people allowed in Ambush, and double the amount of available clones.
Give Assaults more abilities (like the one I proposed). Give Heavies abilities to make CQC even more choked (with armor hardening abilities), and don't take range away from snipers.
Basically, make everyone's job easier by giving abilities and modules to help them DO their jobs. Right now, CCP seems to be going in only ONE direction, and it's anti-niche, pro-assault. |
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