DUST Search - So I did some physics on the railguns....

Anax 01 wrote:

Does the 80GJ figure come from an official source? (Do we even have an official wiki yet?)

I'm looking at the in game description of the sniper rifle at the moment and all it says is that it shoots 2-inch, "beehive" flechettes. I know next to nothing about guns, so when the game says "... the sniper rifle effectively weaponizes velocity, putting an inert round downrange in excess of 2500 m/s," I have no idea whether that accounts for, say air resistance. Still, it sounds like you guys don't need to guesstimate a figure for velocity and need only play with mass. Mass that must still sound reasonable for a 2-inch flechette made of whatever material that's light enough to allow a scout to sprint at 7.8 m/s.

If we plug 2.500 m/s into the equation E = 1/2*M*V^2 we get M = 25,600 Kg. So, a fully loaded tactical sniper rifle would weight 768,000 Kg or about as much as 716 Hyndae i20s. Also, each 2-inch flechette would weigh about as much as 24 i20s. That's a lot of mass for a mere 2 inches!

(I'm laughing so hard right now Big smile

)

Yeah, the 80GJ figure just can't be right x'D

... and lets not even get into how the hell can the scout suit guarantee a 7.8 m/s sprint speed, regardless of the planet's gravitational field. Unless we assume New Eden is strewn with Earth like planets :p

EDIT: I just realized that the OP was talking about the big railgun installations, not the mini-railguns snipers carry around. My bad, but I'm gonna leave the post here in case it makes anybody laugh.

undeadsoldier90 wrote:

I would tell you to get a life but anyone who does a physics problem about a weapon in a video game during their free time obviously does not have one.... that ship has metaphoricly sailed....

Tell me more about how you are surprised to find nerds in the forums of a sci-fi MMOFPS Roll

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VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 147	Posted - 2013.03.16 01:30:00 - [1] - Quote So unless physics works different in Iceland.... So they are 80 GJ railguns that is 80,000,000,000 J Work equals change in energy 80,000,000,000= 1/2 M V^2 assuming the mass of railgun projectile is 100 kg (prolly on the heavy side) V= 28,284 M/S Now that makes it from my house in Wisconsin to Iceland roughly 3 min. That would be enough to orbit almost ANY planet That hits the 600 m max range in .02 seconds. If you had a 30 FPS film of the railgun you would not even catch the projectile in 1 frame The air pressure would be enough to blow clones away Now lets assume the shield tank weighs about 100 Metric tons (M1 abrams tank weighs 60 Metric Tons) Then M1V1= (M1+M2) V2 V2 = v tank V2 = 31 M/S That is more than the top speed of the tank, so if it is moving at full speed it will be pushed back at about 10 m/s So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Even assuming something insane, like a 50% railgun inefficency, just half all the speeds and double the times and it is still outrageous. I lol so bad when i was doing this! So ya, this is what I do when I don't play Dust
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 982	Posted - 2013.03.16 01:40:00 - [2] - Quote Physic do not apply to sci fi games everyone knows that
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 455	Posted - 2013.03.16 01:40:00 - [3] - Quote VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG?
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 147	Posted - 2013.03.16 01:46:00 - [4] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Physic do not apply to sci fi games everyone knows that 1 its kind of a joke bud, calm done 2 if physics don't apply then.... we can jump and never come down/? grenades can throw and never drop? Mass drivers go in a straight line? 3 if physics don't apply then what does...... what other way does the universe work? people were raging about random dispersion but if there is no physics then EVERYTHING is random!
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 250	Posted - 2013.03.16 01:50:00 - [5] - Quote I would tell you to get a life but anyone who does a physics problem about a weapon in a video game during their free time obviously does not have one.... that ship has metaphoricly sailed....
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 983	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:10:00 - [6] - Quote VicBoss wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: Physic do not apply to sci fi games everyone knows that 1 its kind of a joke bud, calm done 2 if physics don't apply then.... we can jump and never come down/? grenades can throw and never drop? Mass drivers go in a straight line? 3 if physics don't apply then what does...... what other way does the universe work? people were raging about random dispersion but if there is no physics then EVERYTHING is random! If the coding is right, then all of that can happen. Also, i was just making a smug comment, I wasn't trying to attack you or anything. YOU CALM DOWN.
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 148	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:16:00 - [7] - Quote CCP really needs a sarcasm face, or a note at the bottom that says "this post is sarcastic" It would probably solve many problems through text
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 77	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:28:00 - [8] - Quote VicBoss wrote: assuming the mass of railgun projectile is 100 kg (prolly on the heavy side) V= 28,284 M/S Acctualy (ideally) you would not want to use material with a high mass as a rail projectile. Basically the idea behind rail tech is to weaponize velocity itself. In so doing you would want to use a material with an extreme low mass but strong molecular bond. Aluminum or some composit material perhaps. Ideally the target speed you would be attempting to achive would be well in excess of 10^4 miles per second. Mater impacts behave much differently at these speeds. Also you would want to maximize impact surface area, and thus, would be firing a cone shaped projectile (a diamond shape for instance) butt first.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 674	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:35:00 - [9] - Quote They seem to have projectile drop and fire so that you can see the projectile fly across the map at about the speed of a cannonball. Like many things in Dust 514 they are so advanced they have gone all the way around the other side and become antiquated versions of themselves.
Jonny Moreau Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 13	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:39:00 - [10] - Quote Hormonal Teenage Response Request Queued, ETA 15 Seconds. Request Accepted, RDV Inbound. Zekain Kade wrote: Physic do not apply to sci fi games everyone knows that *Deployment Failed, RDV Destroyed En Route. Can we fire magnesium shots to blind and kill foes simultaneously? It's getting dark in here, let's turn on some lights. And wouldn't a shot near a clone create a vortex strong enough to suck them in?

Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming 25	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:41:00 - [11] - Quote If the difference in reality is so extreme but the game still needs to operate with the same functionality, why not just have CCP fix the description numbers and not the graphics. Sounds like an easier solution than looking incredibly foolish. Course I don't know a damned thing about physics, so it obviously wouldn't effect my experience much...
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 153	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:42:00 - [12] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: VicBoss wrote: assuming the mass of railgun projectile is 100 kg (prolly on the heavy side) V= 28,284 M/S Acctualy (ideally) you would not want to use material with a high mass as a rail projectile. Basically the idea behind rail tech is to weaponize velocity itself. In so doing you would want to use a material with an extreme low mass but strong molecular bond. Aluminum or some composit material perhaps. Ideally the target speed you would be attempting to achive would be well in excess of 10^4 miles per second. Mater impacts behave much differently at these speeds. Also you would want to maximize impact surface area, and thus, would be firing a cone shaped projectile (a diamond shape for instance) butt first, in order to maximize impact splash. {edit>>> As for moveing the tank on impact, this would not happen. As I said mater impacts at these speeds behave much differently. Upon contact, the projectile would instanaiously atomize the target and splash affected areas. At these speeds mater to mater contact behaves more like two bodies of liquid interacting. I stand corrected. THEY GO MUCH FASTER THAN I THOUGHT! Please note that i do not advocate changing game mechanics, just thought i would actually do the math for kicks
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 2060	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:50:00 - [13] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG? Am I really a clone? O.o
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 518	Posted - 2013.03.16 02:54:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG? Am I really a clone? O.o Nope, you are a sponge.
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 84	Posted - 2013.03.16 03:01:00 - [15] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG? Am I really a clone? O.o Nope, you are a sponge. You're a cantaloupe.
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 519	Posted - 2013.03.16 03:03:00 - [16] - Quote mollerz wrote: You're a cantaloupe. Wrong, I am Tuna that has been defrosted.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 661	Posted - 2013.03.16 03:04:00 - [17] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG? Am I really a clone? O.o Nope, you are a sponge. and you're a fish so we're partway to spongebob
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 77	Posted - 2013.03.16 03:06:00 - [18] - Quote mollerz wrote: Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: VicBoss wrote: So CCP are they really 80GJ railguns? Is my HMG really a HMG? Am I really a clone? O.o Nope, you are a sponge. You're a cantaloupe. ^^^ good quote ^^^ Frome the movie Real Love, and the best scene ever put to film IMO.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 70	Posted - 2013.03.16 05:17:00 - [19] - Quote This is a fun subject I think I'll try and do some math with you, but give me a break if I mess anything up. It's been a long long time since I've done physics. I will just do my work on in this post and you can see everything I'm doing. Now I already know that you are right that 80Gj is far too much for what we are seeing, but I think I can fit the formulas to match it. Lets start off with some assumptions. Let's say the projectile velocity is 3000 m/s, which according to wiki is within the limits of current military railguns. (I know... wiki sucks for numbers). I have no clue how long the turret is, but lets just say it's 5 meters for simplicity. v = v0 + at, let v0 = 0 m/s v=at=3000 Vavg = (v0 + v)/2 =v/2 = 3000/2 = 1500 m/s t=delta x/Vavg = 5/1500 = 0.0034 s a=v/t =3000/0.0034 =882000 m/ss Lets assume with a wild guess that the projectile is 5kg a=F/m or F=am=8820005kg=4,410,000 = 4.41MN A newton is a measurement of force, while a joule is a measurement of work which is force through a distance. Our distance is 5m 80Gj=F5, F=j/delta x= 80Gj/5m=16GN....... wow thats alot, lets fiddle with the projectile mass F=am F=work/delta x F=F am=work/x m=work/(ax)=80Gj/(8820005)=18140kg put back into the previous equations. F=am=882000 m/ss * 18140 kg=15.999GN F=j/delta x =80Gj/5m=16GN There we go, thats much better. ignoring the rounding errors, lets just call it 16GN. Now since I'm just doing math... I didn't see the funniest thing about this until I calculated it. I'm still laughing as i'm typing this. 18140kg is about equal to 40000 pounds or 20 tons... OMG!!! A 20 ton projectile flying at 3000 m/s. The in game visuals do not do justice to the horror show that would be a dropsuit being hit with that, or even a tank. Then there's the thing that was brought up, the projectile is not traveling that fast. Well that would mean the projectile is even heavier.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2013.03.16 05:23:00 - [20] - Quote yeah, I'm pretty sure any suit even grazed by that shot just kind of stops existing. Period. You have been atomized, do not pass go, do not get revived.

WyrmHero1945 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 40	Posted - 2013.03.16 05:36:00 - [21] - Quote Physics FTW.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2013.03.16 05:43:00 - [22] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: Physics FTW. to quote mass effect 2 "Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-***** in space."
Django Quik R.I.f.t 279	Posted - 2013.03.16 09:39:00 - [23] - Quote There are an awful lot of assumptions here, most importantly that gravity and atmospheric density on Dust planets are the same as Earth's. 16GN is not a measurement that would exist anywhere other than our own planet.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 430	Posted - 2013.03.16 10:19:00 - [24] - Quote The forge gun is listed as 7000m/s, tank rail guns would be the same or faster. So, the same weight projectile at 7k m/s would have 5.4444... times the energy at the same weight. I would guess the 80gj also counts the thermal energy, rail guns rounds even of current real guns tend to heat to point melting of the metal is possible. It could also include the wasted energy that goes into the muzzle flash, recoil, and heating the weapon up. As a side note, current 120mm tank projectile (M829A3) weighs about 10kg and is fired at 1555m/s, about 11mj energy is claimed by maker. Iowa class battle ship 16" cannon, 355mj kinetic energy, and about 470mj chemical in the shell. What shape the projectile is would depend on what terminal effect you want. Do you want to convert the the energy to a blast, make a small deep hole, cover an area, or transfer inertia to the target. I think a dart type round like current apfsds tank rounds would punch through armour well, and flenchete bee hive for anti-personnel rail round(please don't add this in game though, rail hav don't need shotgun alt fire mod for balance sake).
Anax 01 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 17	Posted - 2013.03.16 13:29:00 - [25] - Quote Does the 80GJ figure come from an official source? (Do we even have an official wiki yet?) I'm looking at the in game description of the sniper rifle at the moment and all it says is that it shoots 2-inch, "beehive" flechettes. I know next to nothing about guns, so when the game says "... the sniper rifle effectively weaponizes velocity, putting an inert round downrange in excess of 2500 m/s," I have no idea whether that accounts for, say air resistance. Still, it sounds like you guys don't need to guesstimate a figure for velocity and need only play with mass. Mass that must still sound reasonable for a 2-inch flechette made of whatever material that's light enough to allow a scout to sprint at 7.8 m/s. If we plug 2.500 m/s into the equation E = 1/2MV^2 we get M = 25,600 Kg. So, a fully loaded tactical sniper rifle would weight 768,000 Kg or about as much as 716 Hyndae i20s. Also, each 2-inch flechette would weigh about as much as 24 i20s. That's a lot of mass for a mere 2 inches! (I'm laughing so hard right now ) Yeah, the 80GJ figure just can't be right x'D ... and lets not even get into how the hell can the scout suit guarrantee a 7.8 m/s sprint speed, regardless of the planet's gravitational field. Unless we assume New Eden is strewn with Earth like planets :p undeadsoldier90 wrote: I would tell you to get a life but anyone who does a physics problem about a weapon in a video game during their free time obviously does not have one.... that ship has metaphoricly sailed.... Tell me more about how you are surprised to find nerds in the forums of a sci-fi MMOFPS
The Dragon Ascendant Destruction Initiative Enterprise 120	Posted - 2013.03.16 13:29:00 - [26] - Quote Sci fi writers have no sense of scale
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 142	Posted - 2013.03.16 13:44:00 - [27] - Quote Yea railguns used to be like an instant shot, now they have travel time which is pure BS
VicBoss Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 170	Posted - 2013.03.16 15:45:00 - [28] - Quote Anax 01 wrote: Does the 80GJ figure come from an official source? (Do we even have an official wiki yet?) I'm looking at the in game description of the sniper rifle at the moment and all it says is that it shoots 2-inch, "beehive" flechettes. I know next to nothing about guns, so when the game says "... the sniper rifle effectively weaponizes velocity, putting an inert round downrange in excess of 2500 m/s," I have no idea whether that accounts for, say air resistance. Still, it sounds like you guys don't need to guesstimate a figure for velocity and need only play with mass. Mass that must still sound reasonable for a 2-inch flechette made of whatever material that's light enough to allow a scout to sprint at 7.8 m/s. If we plug 2.500 m/s into the equation E = 1/2MV^2 we get M = 25,600 Kg. So, a fully loaded tactical sniper rifle would weight 768,000 Kg or about as much as 716 Hyndae i20s. Also, each 2-inch flechette would weigh about as much as 24 i20s. That's a lot of mass for a mere 2 inches! (I'm laughing so hard right now ) Yeah, the 80GJ figure just can't be right x'D ... and lets not even get into how the hell can the scout suit guarantee a 7.8 m/s sprint speed, regardless of the planet's gravitational field. Unless we assume New Eden is strewn with Earth like planets :p EDIT: I just realized that the OP was talking about the big railgun installations, not the mini-railguns snipers carry around. My bad, but I'm gonna leave the post here in case it makes anybody laugh. undeadsoldier90 wrote: I would tell you to get a life but anyone who does a physics problem about a weapon in a video game during their free time obviously does not have one.... that ship has metaphoricly sailed.... Tell me more about how you are surprised to find nerds in the forums of a sci-fi MMOFPS Just to let you know, I LOLED sooooo bad when i read this
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 86	Posted - 2013.03.16 17:52:00 - [29] - Quote Ignoble Son wrote: mollerz wrote: You're a cantaloupe. ^^^ good quote ^^^ From the movie Real Love, and the best/most well acted scene ever put to film IMO. You mean True Romance? OR did you see some foreign translation of it? but yes! spot on :D Dennis Hopper vs. Walken? PFFT! Defines FTW!
Ignoble Son 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 78	Posted - 2013.03.16 18:54:00 - [30] - Quote mollerz wrote: Ignoble Son wrote: mollerz wrote: You're a cantaloupe. ^^^ good quote ^^^ From the movie Real Love, and the best/most well acted scene ever put to film IMO. You mean True Romance? OR did you see some foreign translation of it? but yes! spot on :D Dennis Hopper vs. Walken? PFFT! Defines FTW! Yah your right. My bad. Been a long time. Even though, don't know how the hell I kittened that up. It truly is an amazing scene though: The full scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yon2GyoiM&feature=youtube_gdata_player A little on the racist side, although I don't think that Clarence's dad was a racist, and that the only reason he said what he did was out of spite and to avoid torture.



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