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Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have 3 general concerns of economics and grinding based upon the devblog/thread/irc information. I am using http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest#Loot_Rewards as reference in my calculations
First let me start with the ecnomoics of attacking and defending. I am going make this best case and simple to follow. Note MCCs have no cost at moment but will long term.
In this example I will assume unreal are 2 weeks into lowsec sov. The district owners have spent 20 mill isk to plant a flag on the planet and an additional 100 million to purchase a production facility. Thus giving is higher clone production and isk earning potential.
The district has maxed its clones at 300 and continues produce 60 additional per day that can be converted into to 6 million isk for the corp. At 6 mill a day i till take approx 20 days to recoup intial investment (beyond the first 4 to go from 100 to 300 clones). This district will then earn ~ 180 mill isk a month for it's owners
Problem is PFBHz move in next door. Gizmo and the lads opt for more defensive district since they live next to super baddies unreal. They choose to spend 100 mill isk on a cargo up. Thus upping their clone total to 450 while keeping their clone production at 40 or 4 mill isk a day. For them it will take ~8 days to max clone count and another 30 days to recoup initail investment. This district will make ~120 mill a month for its owners
Fast forwd 40 days so all isk has been recouped for both corportations. Unreal unable to roll a 20 to dodge saving throw against PFBHz they get attacked. The cost for PFBHz to move 1 district over is 0% loss of clones.
PFBHz attacks on day 41 with a corp battle to be scheduled for day 42. PFBHz takes 100 clones with them and unreal will defend with 100 clones.
Match results
PFBHz -loses 60 clones at a cost of 6 mill isk. -Not using anywhere near max gear I assume 150k avg suit cost x 60 = 9 mill -low est of vehicles lost is 12 mill (average tank can be 2 mill easy)
Total loss victory of 27 million
unreal -MCC was destoryed 0 isk -100 clone min 10 mill isk -not using anywhere near max gear I assume 150k avg suit cost x 88 = 13.2 mill isk (88 is actual clones lost) -low est of vehciles lost is 14 mill
Total loss is 37.2
PFBHz is rewarded with 20% ~7.4 million in loot
For simplicity lets say the next day has same results. So after 2 days of attacking PFBHz have spent 40 mill as a corp while unreal has lost 75mill isk
Day 3
surpise unreal wins a close one as they throw everything to win while PFBHz assume easy win let gizmo play
unreal -loses 95 clones at 9.5 million -max gear avg 250k a suit x 95 is 23.7 mill isk -vehicles cost about 16 mill
total loss is 49.2 million
PFBHz
-100 clones at 10 million isk -75 suits at 150k suits for 11.2 million isk -14 million in vehicles
total loss 35.2 mill isk
unreal is rewarded with ~7 million in loot. Since it won its allowed to product 60 more clones. Which gives unreal 65 clones to defend the district
Day 4
PFBHz doesn't let gizmo OR veritas play and rolls out the tryhard, 0 try harder, Nighteagle, James, that laser guy I hate, etc
PFBHz -loss of 30 clones at 3 million isk -30 suits at 250k is 7.5 milion isk -10 million in vehicles
for a total of 20.5 million
unreal
-65 clones for 6.5 million isk (they only have 65 so thats all they can bring) -65 at 250k a suit 16.5 million isk (gotta put it all on the line now) -14 million in vehciles
for a total of 37 million isk lost
PFBHz gets loot of 6.4 million
PFBHz now controls the district. It took 4 days and a cost of 89.3 million isk. while unreal lost quiet a bit more and the district. It will take PFBHz ~ 15 days to recoup its losses from the district if no one attacks it.
So this is middle of the road in costs/clone loss/ vehicle losses for corp battles of 8v8 matches. Kain, gunner, and I pulled these number from real corp battles we watching on youtube that where posted. Going to a 16v16 will be even more expensive. I tracked losses from the tourney when it was 15v15 and battles easily exceed 50 million in gear and vehicles.
more examples to come. |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:27:00 -
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Based on the example above lets assume that unreal purchased a cargo hub instead, thus increasing its total clones to 450.
If unreal defends with only 100 clones in the first 4 matches and loses they still force PFBHz to attack 5 times in a row. If we assume that 5 days in battles costs PFBH a total of 160 million isk. This is 32 million a match and more then resonable even in victory.
PFBHz will need ~ 40 days to make up the cost of taking the district.
Moral of story is buy the cargo hub and make it a finacial deterent to attack your district.
This is step one of the Blue Donut of Beers |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:27:00 -
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Reserved |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:55:00 -
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Mr Turtlez wrote:What did i do :(
Kill me... not cool man. Not cool. |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:56:00 -
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NightEagle11 wrote:That cant be right, if we (PFBHz) were to attack unreal, they would undoubtedly just give up the territory in their infamous tactic of dodging.
Its why i noted they failed their dodge saving throw. They need a 20 when you bitches roll up |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 02:59:00 -
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J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:I'm not sure if I misread this but is MCC destruction not a district capture condition for the attackers? Only clone depletion?
Not sure I like district capture based around TDM, it should be an objective based capture as well...
I noted the MCC in the first battle but since it has no isk value i left it out to save space.
It is objective based but you still lose clones, gear, and vehicles in the process and those are the 3 distinct things calculated |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 03:00:00 -
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Veritas Vitae wrote:This thread made me lol with all the insertions of corpmates. But the point is valid; holy ISK sinks!
made you famous |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 03:10:00 -
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Government CheeseBurger wrote:Nice post Beers. +1. Would like to have seen corp A and Corp B. But you make valid constructive points.
having fun with friends > corp A or B |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 03:46:00 -
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Daddrobit wrote:Free Beers wrote:
PFBHz now controls the district. It took 4 days and a cost of 89.3 million isk. while unreal lost quiet a bit more and the district. It will take PFBHz ~ 15 days to recoup its losses from the district if no one attacks it.
I wanna look at this for a bit. After your battle, PFBHz was left with 250 clones. Let's say they leave it in the 60 clones per day district so as to max that out faster and start moving it into the 40 clones a day district. After day 1, the 60 clones per day would be maxed and the 40 clones per day would have a total of 50 clones, (10 were transferred from the overflow of day 1.) At 100 clones per day total, it's a simple 4 day jaunt until both are maxed out and profit starts rolling in. Then it would be 9 days at 10 mil a day to recoup battle losses. So it would be a 13 day turnaround. The rest looks good though.
What?
It has nothing to do with the close PFBHz have left. It has to do with total loss of isk incurred while taking the district. Once PFBHz has control of the district it produces 60 clones a day because it has a production facility which generates 50% more clones. The basic clone generation rate is 40 der day or 4 million isk.
This district generates 60 clones a day or 6 million into 89.3 million is ~14 days. |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 03:57:00 -
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Vrain Matari wrote:This is approx how I was thinking about it. There's also what's going on overhead - if we're taking these districts for our own interests then maybe orbital support is throwing us a freebie, otherwise we're prolly paying something significant for it.
Beers' analysis is essentially the game for now - there will be variations on this - raider corps, disposable minimum investment territory, feints, etc., the economics of which we will have to plow through.
No MCC cost right now, but also no EVE Bonus stated yet. Would make the cost of district ownership lower if it was also attractive to an EVE entity - this is prolly the long term economics of the thing. We give them enough districts to get their bonuses, we get cheaper districts ourselves.
Question is, who gets the exposed buffer districts and who gets the cozy middle district?
Its just based on what CCP has told us. The only real thing that is left out is eve bonus which I can't see as helping dust mercs finacially
At the moment we have nothing eve wants or needs. I get it clones and pilots need them but they aren't going to ever need that many to make anything on the secondary market.
In FW i can see militas wanting to do OB because they have an interest but there is no incentive in lowsec for eve pilots.
Once MCCs cost and if players have to pay isk for OB support (I doubt mercs will pay for it since warbarge/mcc have function now) |
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Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.03.15 07:58:00 -
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Gunner Nightingale wrote:Even though its negligible if you are on the same planet as a district you want to control there is still a 500K ISK cost to transport your troops into the neighboring district each go.
There is also the attrition cost for travel beyond the planet and the travel cost also rise with obviously cuts into the profit. In your scenario its only an additional 500K ISK/per attack so if it take 5 attacks thats an additional 2.5 Million added to the books and thats just to attack a district thats on the same planet
Districts within the same solar system is 1M ISK travel cost per attack cycle and unless coming from a district with a research lab thats a 5% loss on clones which is 100K/clone loss per attack cylce.
I'll reread but im not sure if that was factored into the attack cost.
So if a corp is smart enough to the right solar system or at the least the right mix of small district planets it will become extremely unviable economically to attack them.
circle gets the square.
I did not factor in that amount. i went for 3 numbers and a 20% loot amount to keep it simple.
seems like it just get more and more expensive the more we talk about it |
Free Beers
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Posted - 2013.04.03 18:09:00 -
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Beren Hurin wrote:Why do we think its necessary that the average fit is 150k? Wouldn't profit improve for attackers/defenders if they could engage forces with suits that were ~50k?
Here is a basic type 2 assualt suit fit
2 complex sheild extenders GEK basic plate basic rep nano hive nade
costs like 70k+
My A series logi fits with no proto level gear can cost over 100k
Most heavies with hmg or forge will cost you close to 100k with no proto equipment.
The 150k average is when you take all "step below proto" level suits across the roles and average them.
Last build my logisuits in any corp battle just I never ran under 150k suit and used just A series.
I have all the math for the suits. Its just not there beren and i cringe at how bad a 50k suit would be |
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