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Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
0
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Posted - 2013.03.12 18:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm rather curious if such a thing is/will be implemented in the game. It ticks me off that a scout with a shotgun can 3 shot my Heavy Proto suit with 1200+ HP armor and shield while I can't manage to kill the roach with a clip out of a Freedom HMG or an Exile AR. Yes, I do go heavy AR sometimes '-_-
Point being, shouldn't there be more of a reward other than CPU/PG and SOMETIMES a slot upgrade in the higher tier dropsuits? Like damage mitigation? Tanks have it, so why not infantry? I don't care if it's a module for the DS or if the DS itself has a 10% damage intake reduction.
Or perhaps a damage mitigation percentage against "x" weapon.
TL:DR I hate dying on a heavy proto suit with 1200+hp to weaker players. No, I am not bad. 3.7 K/D as pure infantry.
In before trolls/hate posts. |
Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
0
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Posted - 2013.03.12 18:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:a scout with a shotgun
I hate dying on a heavy proto suit with 1200+hp to weaker players. Cut down to just the parts I want to focus on here. What make "a scout with a shotgun" a "weaker player" than you? To get the kill, they need to have passed all the way through your optimal range, and they still have to land 3 shots on you at point-blank almost-melee range without letting you get a bead on them for the approximately 0.5s it takes to reduce their paper suit into a pile of scrap with something that used to be a body inside its swiss-cheesed remains. If they're too far, it can take 4 or 5 shots to finish a well-fitted Heavy with even a high-tier Shotgun. If you let that happen, you're as bad as a tank driver complaining about AV when he's running without support. You screwed up, your enemy punished you for it. Heavies are the Scout's natural prey. You need someone to keep them off you, just like most front-line Assaults need someone to keep the Heavies from steamrolling through them. And just like all the AR guys need some friends with AV capabilities to keep the tanks from rolling through and wiping them out.
The mobility of a heavy is the weakness and scout suits know just damn well how to exploit that. The problem is the mobility in aiming as well though. Even with sensitivity cranked up to max, it's a problem. Sure 0.5s is all it takes to kill a scout or even a logi with little health. It's not the issue. The amount of stamina the non-heavy drop suits have is such an advantage over a heavy when they can jump around like a rabbit on a pogo stick to get at point blank range as you put it.
I get the pro part of being a heavy, more health, big ass gun. But it seems the cons outweigh the good in higher tiers. Or have you not read the countless heavy threads in this forum?
Now you misunderstand me in the part that I am complaining about a heavy in particular. I am saying that ALL dropsuits should have some damage mitigation as you start getting into the higher tiers. Especially with the amount of SP that is being spent on them. |
Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:Now you misunderstand me in the part that I am complaining about a heavy in particular. I am saying that ALL dropsuits should have some damage mitigation as you start getting into the higher tiers. Especially with the amount of SP that is being spent on them. Part of your complaint is that your Heavy suit was dying fast to a low-RoF weapon designed specifically for the range bracket you ended up in with no effectiveness if you managed to kill them while they were moving into position. But in response to this part, I disagree. IF they add damage mitigation, it should be a baseline advantage to Heavies to help balance out the fact that they get shafted at higher tiers, because that IS a legitimate complaint. Other suits get better by a larger margin than Heavies do as you skill up, particularly when you consider the price of Heavy suits. They could, like they do with vehicles, add damage reduction modules as well.
I merely used a heavy as an example seeing as how that's a class with a crap ton of HP but I could have easily used an assault for the argument. People here are under the assumption that I simply run heavy. Quite contrary, I actually like to run Logi suit and stack it up with plates to make a formidable AR class and it works.
My point is and still remains that the dropsuits should have damage reduction. And I did mention modules as a possible solution. It doesn't matter for what class. The counter argument people have is "heavy QQ" while that isn't the topic at hand. While yes, a heavy could use damage reduction from a shotgun, a scout or a Logi could use damage reduction from a heavy. Will it simply negate the damages done and not have them in the first place? On an equal level, yes, but not in higher tiers as the dropsuits/modules have more damage reduction.
Just as there are damage modifiers for weapons, the same should and could be done for suits. |
Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
0
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:
Just as there are damage modifiers for weapons, the same should and could be done for suits.
We call them shield extenders, a complex one will reduce the damage from an AR by a whole 2 bullets.
A whole 2 bullets from an AR can be 100+ damage but therein lies the debate of whether a person should use shield extenders/armor plates or complex modifiers in place of the shield extenders to put out the damage as fast as said opponent weapon.
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Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:
Just as there are damage modifiers for weapons, the same should and could be done for suits.
We call them shield extenders, a complex one will reduce the damage from an AR by a whole 2 bullets. A whole 2 bullets from an AR can be 100+ damage but therein lies the debate of whether a person should use shield extenders/armor plates or complex modifiers in place of the shield extenders to put out the damage as fast as said opponent weapon. Actually, shield extenders win almost every single time, even with the broken damage mods. Disturbingly Board did the math. All though I think we are supposed to get resistance modules if I remember right.
Then that answers that. Resistance modules = damage mitigation. That was all I wanted to know. |
Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
0
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Posted - 2013.03.12 19:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:
Just as there are damage modifiers for weapons, the same should and could be done for suits.
We call them shield extenders, a complex one will reduce the damage from an AR by a whole 2 bullets. A whole 2 bullets from an AR can be 100+ damage but therein lies the debate of whether a person should use shield extenders/armor plates or complex modifiers in place of the shield extenders to put out the damage as fast as said opponent weapon. But then there's the fact that, as fixed-value bonuses, Shield Extenders aren't subject to stacking penalties. While not currently working as intended, Damage Mods SHOULD be limited in that regard. And I think it would be interesting to have a Shield Resistance Amplifier that reduces damage while your shields are still up, or an Armour Hardener that reduces damage to your suit's armour. And I think it would be a good idea if, as I said, Heavies got a "built-in" bonus to damage reduction, just like Logi suits get a built in hacking bonus and Scouts get a built-in advantage to scanning range. At their current capabilities, though, Low-tier Heavies are about where they should be, so it should be a bonus that they gain as you skill up. Give (for example) a 3% damage reduction bonus on Advanced suits, and a 5% bonus for Prototype. Or 5% and 10%, maybe. I don't know. I'd rather see them brought into line with the other suits than over-buffed though, so I'm leaning towards a smaller bonus instead of a larger one. But I DON'T agree with giving the other suits a passive bonus of this kind when they're already otherwise well-balanced within each tier. They used to have HP increased (both Shield and Armour) as you upgraded to the new suits, and that made a well-fitted Proto Assault more of a Heavy than a Standard Heavy suit could ever be. They NEEDED to make the advantage boil down to how you fit the improved suits, rather than the baseline stats being better.
The only problem I see with fitting an "improved" suit is just that. You have to fit it even though you have already spent X amount of SP to get there. And now you have to spend another X amount of SP to fit it to a degree in which it completes a higher tier suit. In short, and not that I personally care, why the need to spend more time and SP into other skills to be able to fit a high tier suit that a person has already spent time and SP into acquiring. There is very little reward in that.
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Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
1
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
low genius wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:I'm rather curious if such a thing is/will be implemented in the game. It ticks me off that a scout with a shotgun can 3 shot my Heavy Proto suit with 1200+ HP armor and shield while I can't manage to kill the roach with a clip out of a Freedom HMG or an Exile AR. Yes, I do go heavy AR sometimes '-_-
Point being, shouldn't there be more of a reward other than CPU/PG and SOMETIMES a slot upgrade in the higher tier dropsuits? Like damage mitigation? Tanks have it, so why not infantry? I don't care if it's a module for the DS or if the DS itself has a 10% damage intake reduction.
Or perhaps a damage mitigation percentage against "x" weapon.
TL:DR I hate dying on a heavy proto suit with 1200+hp to weaker players. No, I am not bad. 3.7 K/D as pure infantry.
In before trolls/hate posts. are you playing a lot of corp battles for 15 mil where that heavy proto is necessary, or are you whoring kills in ambush in that thing?
I only bring out the Proto Suit/Proto weapon in Ambush when I am playing with my squad of friends. We have dedicated roles and even if I go down, I get a revive. A loss here and there is OK but it's usually brought out every 5 games or so. As a main heavy suit I run the A-Series with a Boundless and the B series with a GEK/Exile both with complex mods and 87hp armor plating. |
Mr Pwnykins
East Los Angeles
1
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Posted - 2013.03.12 20:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Knarf Black wrote:Mr Pwnykins wrote:The only problem I see with fitting an "improved" suit is just that. You have to fit it even though you have already spent X amount of SP to get there. And now you have to spend another X amount of SP to fit it to a degree in which it completes a higher tier suit. In short, and not that I personally care, why the need to spend more time and SP into other skills to be able to fit a high tier suit that a person has already spent time and SP into acquiring. There is very little reward in that.
That's the game in a nutshell: the suit is merely the centerpiece of your fitting, and if you prioritize all your SP on getting the best suit right away, then you have accomplished little more than increasing the cost of your deaths. It's the combined accumulation of a variety of passive skills and high level gear that really makes you more powerful.
Powerful = expensive nonetheless. But I know this all too well. A proto suit running top tier proto weapon and complex mods alone can equal several matches worth of ISK. |
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