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trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
200
   |
Posted - 2013.03.11 14:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
A controversial one incoming.
DROP UPLINK is the most powerful item in game currently. This tactical equipment allows teams to completely bypass midfield, potentially making snipers very niche and dumbing down tactics to "keep uplinks going, everywhere, and run close range setups". To me, this item clearly needs adjustment.
Since some while, drop uplinks work for squads only. Keep this as is, while looking for the ultimate balance to the uplinks. Having uplinks squad based narrows them down and is a good thing.
The long term balance fix I'd like to see with uplinks would be for them to work with Sky Spawning; the spawn point of each uplink located 500 meters above ground. This would allow spotting (and sniping) of dropping mercs in transit. This would also balance the force projection speed of uplinks, as an additional 20 seconds would be spent falling. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
790
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 16:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Uplinks have always worked for teams at least since CODEX build. Nor were those limits defined by the type or meta level of the uplinks in question.
There were some sort of limitations on when/how those links would show up for team members outside of squads, seemingly tied to area died vs placement of uplink.
Furthermore the current state of things does nothing to hamper effective snipers who should be camping two null cannon panels or at the very least one far panel with RE's on the near panel.
The only actual of late is removing default squads causing the players who are only in the Team pool to be greater and thus increasing the likelihood of uplink use by Mercs outside of a squad.
The change proposed in the OP would not only invalidate most of the value given by upgraded uplink types, also requiring an alteration to the current spawn mechanics (since links have never been squad locked) but creating entire new mechanic to be coded (sky spawn) but further would remove any tactical stealth/infiltration elements from uplinks entirely (as falling from the sky will highlight the merc with both sound and visuals).
In short the net effects of the OP are as follows.
[list]
Remove tactical play & the value of higher metas from uplinks
Expend development resources
Create more QQ thread's about how "snipers are 'ruining' the game" (note I don't think said threads are legit, but there would no doubt be more of them if this change were enacted)
0.02 ISK
Cross |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
201
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 17:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Being able to insta deploy is more detrimental to tactics, as it promotes close quarters spam. |
Spy Mouse
New Eden Space Pirates
6
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Posted - 2013.03.11 17:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Over 25% of my war points come from uplinks. I can place 4 at a time by changing fittings at a supply depot or by respawning. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
323
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Uplinks dropped by squad members only work for members of that squad.
Uplinks dropped by the unwashed horde is usable by all members of the unwashed horde.
I believe the hacked uplink can be used by the entire team but don't quote me on that. and it only comes in the merc pack if it does in fact work like that. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:Uplinks dropped by squad members only work for members of that squad.
Uplinks dropped by the unwashed horde is usable by all members of the unwashed horde.
I believe the hacked uplink can be used by the entire team but don't quote me on that. and it only comes in the merc pack if it does in fact work like that.
This is incorrect. I have tested and confirmed (both before and after CCPs recent changes to the "auto squad" mechanic) that uplinks deployed within a squad can be used by players from other squads or no squad on the same team.
The notion that the hacked uplink is the only uplink able to be used by the entire team is a myth, even the basic militia uplink can allow for team spawns.
@trollsroyce
Your reply to my prior post fails to address nearly everything I said, and what it does address it provides no supporting description or data for, rather it simply makes a statement without providing any information or reasoning to support it or attempt to illustrate how it might theoretically have a great impact that the aspects I raised. Please respond to the whole post and provide the reasoning and information behind your conclusions.
Cross |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
323
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
hooray for once i am glad to be wrong! maybe now i can get the blue dots out of the red line!
i realize i am probably hoping for to much but maybe just maybe... |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Val'herik Dorn wrote:hooray for once i am glad to be wrong! maybe now i can get the blue dots out of the red line!
i realize i am probably hoping for to much but maybe just maybe...
Be advised there is some limiting mechanic that I have yet to fully varify, preliminarily testing seems to indicate that it has to do with proximity to the uplink upon death and that meta level of uplinks may increase the radius of the "respawn bubble".
A further note is that the range of possible "out of squad" respawn is based on a bubble not a circle so elevation does matter. In essence this means that to get the blue dots out of the redline you'll have to "bread crumb" an uplink trail out into the field of combat. I have used this bread crumb method with limited success.
Oddly the less secure the uplink location the more frequently I seem to gain team spawns from it but whether that's due to a game mechanic or a quirk of bluedot psychology I cannot reliably ascertain.
Hope some of the above information proves useful to you (many Both... er I mean Uplinks gave their lives retrieving this information).
Cheers,
Cross |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
201
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cross: Your response is tied to the current iteration of dust, which is built wholly around frontline objective play. My ideal is a gameplay that adapts to map types and circumstances, providing different engagements.
In the current, limited Dust experience, snipers are best off doing what you propose. It's objective centric, while it could sometimes be field control centric. This is why I state drop uplinks are detrimental to tactics: you don't need to pass field, just spawn at next objective uplink. This is narrowing the game.
As far as uplink history, if they were a design failure that was improved by becoming squad based (requires more uplink running, which expands the game), then it's better to keep the current.
SkySpawn uplinks would shift the focus towards field control, and the game needs this shift or it will be close range favored, too heavily. Think of it as Local vs. Global tactics. The latter is currently nonexistant; the optimal way is to keep uplinks everywhere and deploy where needed instantly.
The stealth point is a valid one. This would be better solved by having a materialization time instead of sky spawn. Sneaking uplinks in place and cloaking devices will be the upcoming answer, as well. You can use the cloak while falling as well.
Sniper whining on forums doesn't really affect the game, and snipers need a reinforced Global role right now. Local is always more shallow than adapting to both local and global. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
78
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Posted - 2013.03.11 20:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Well, OP, if entire teams bypassing the field of control is the main issue that concerns you about the uplinks...
A proposal limiting the number of spawns would be in order.
Consider Battlefield 3. Their deployable spawn point only works ONCE, for whoever in that squad uses it. In Dust this would translate into 1 spawn per uplink planted. With the maximum allowed (for gauged uplink variants) being 3-6 uplinks.
For the sake of the OP's argument, say uplinks only provided as many spawns as there were people in that squad. 4 max. Every person on that squad, can only spawn at that particular uplink once. That should enable a team or squad to do one more good push on a position before having to cross the field again
This is not something that assault players can afford to spam. You would need a dedicated uplink logi, in order to maintain a consistent uplink push.
In the end, I don't really see how this would boost demand for field control, save when the uplinks were exhausted.
But as I said in another thread before, I don't see snipers controlling field being very important until players can deploy their own installations: Supply Depots, CRUs, etc.
Because as things stand, we don't have much need to issue Rally orders (Rallying being something that requires a position on the field).
If players could deploy installations, they would be able to make advanced forward bases, that would clearly be well-within sight of sniper fire.
Bottom line is, if players don't have a way of using the field, we as snipers don't have much reason to cover it, besides simply shooting flankers. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
797
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Posted - 2013.03.12 21:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Cross: Your response is tied to the current iteration of dust, which is built wholly around frontline objective play. My ideal is a gameplay that adapts to map types and circumstances, providing different engagements.
In which case is it not accurate to say my response is apt for the current functional context and that extending the play of D514 beyond that is more of a level/map creation concern than a function of the Uplink?
Quote:
In the current, limited Dust experience, snipers are best off doing what you propose. It's objective centric, while it could sometimes be field control centric. This is why I state drop uplinks are detrimental to tactics: you don't need to pass field, just spawn at next objective uplink. This is narrowing the game.
Snipers can post up at any part of the field and aside from opening deployment (or being redlined) there are not functionally any "sides" in my experience even uplinks notwithstanding. There are spawn points on ever objective as well as additional CRU. There are (Maus Peak aside) very few choke points within maps that could be used to lock down ingress regardless of uplinks/internal spawns and even in those areas where choke points do exist vehicles preclude snipers alone from exercising field control. In essence even without uplinks you don't have to functionally pass the field as far as snipers are concerned. Granted there are counters for various vehicles but if we are expanding beyond the more direct context it is worth noting that uplinks cannot be placed across the field without first crossing the field, thus if a sniper were able to exercise field control uplinks would only hinder that if the sniper failed at exercising said control in the first place.
Quote:
As far as uplink history, if they were a design failure that was improved by becoming squad based (requires more uplink running, which expands the game), then it's better to keep the current.
Not quite sure I"m following you here, would you mind elaborating? Thanks 
Quote:
SkySpawn uplinks would shift the focus towards field control, and the game needs this shift or it will be close range favored, too heavily. Think of it as Local vs. Global tactics. The latter is currently nonexistant; the optimal way is to keep uplinks everywhere and deploy where needed instantly.
Just to be clear I have nothing at all against the addition of sky spawning, I just do not see it as a net gain to replace the current mechanics with sky spawning. If new uplinks were added which used this mechanic and players at the option to employ either that would be fine.
I'm not sure how much/often you and your squad employ uplinks but keeping uplinks active all over the map is neither easy to set up easy to maintain and not only takes time away from the firefight and hacking but carries a rather high fitting requirement which usually entails creation of a secondary sub-optimal fit specifically for uplink deployment.
And that doesn't even touch on the "safe vs accessible" tug of war inherent to placement location.
In short there's quite a lot that goes into using uplinks to meaningful effect within a Skirmish, let alone maintaining whole network of them across the entire field.
I do feel however that I may be missing some aspects of what you're saying here, could you elaborate further on which weapons (vehicles included) you're defining as close range vs long range within this conversation? Also perhaps outline a theoretical example of how in your view territorial control would function if fully included to your ideal specifications.
Quote:
Sniper whining on forums doesn't really affect the game, and snipers need a reinforced Global role right now. Local is always more shallow than adapting to both local and global.
In concerns me as I've already seen sniper nerfs come down that I still remain unconvinced were beneficial or proper but which did cater to quite a few of the whining threads I read on the forums. I hope there are valid reasons for the changes which have simply never been presented to me but the experience has left me wary regarding that subject.
Cheers,
Cross |
Bren Butchman
Tgrad Mercs
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 21:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
My two cents:
First and foremost: I play as a sniper.
When I spot and enemy drop uplink (not very hard to do so, usually there is an unusual concentration of enemy troops around it) I can either:
1) farm the incoming enemies
2) actually kill the uplink.
In no way, as a sniper, I'm hindered by the drop uplink use. |
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