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Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
955
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having ambush game where one side has to fight up hill with almost no cover, while the other side spawns in a building complex.
The other team gets a massive sniper advantage, and a **** load of cover, while the other team gets NOTHING BT A FEW INSTALLATIONS?!
Wtf were you thinking when you made this OMIS map? The team that spawns on the low end will almost always lose. They cant hide, the cant rush, there is nothing they can ******* do because theres nothing for them !
Some of you will probably say that it isnt realistic to give the attacking team that sort thing. But guess the **** what. Gameplay takes priority over realism if the gameplay is terrible, then the game will fail. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
916
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Oh im sorry, I didnt know battlefields were created with equality in mind. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
140
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
We dont run into countries without cover we tend to use their buildings to our advantage |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
3057
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Requesting a Dev Blog on maps. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
956
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
140
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps.
I agreed with you im sorry if my wording was bad.. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
314
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
I agree with the sentiment but at the same time it took me 5 seconds of reading to instantly think
LAVs and Dropships.
Yes AV could potentially blow them out of the sky, but again it comes down to knowing and recognizing the imbalance and coming up with a tactic.
A nice dropship and squashing those pesky snipers while dropping off a few MD's on top immediately turns the tables.
The question is can you successfully execute it? |
Bald Crusader Two
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:The question is can you successfully execute it? "With these weapons, I don't know." |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
956
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:I agree with the sentiment but at the same time it took me 5 seconds of reading to instantly think
LAVs and Dropships.
Yes AV could potentially blow them out of the sky, but again it comes down to knowing and recognizing the imbalance and coming up with a tactic.
A nice dropship and squashing those pesky snipers while dropping off a few MD's on top immediately turns the tables.
The question is can you successfully execute it?
Clear sight for an advanced forge gun ruins that plan before the dropship hits the ground. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
85
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Oh im sorry, I didnt know battlefields were created with equality in mind.
This, Dust is eventually supposed to be a massive warfare game. Conquest planets style.
I don't want balanced terrain. That will turn something fun into a crappy call of duty / generic FPS game.
Dust will have something that no other shooter has. An actual incentive to formulate battle strategies and organize team play around terrain based objectives. Like capture the highground. And if you're up against someone who has better terrain you have to find a way to get around that disadvantage. Real military style.
Generals don't play in balanced maps. IMO the crazier and more unique the maps are, the better.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
252
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps.
It doesn't matter if there are that many maps so no one can remember them all.
The real problem of unbalanced terrain is that if you have to fight on the same map so many times that ppl learn to take the max advantage of them.
IMO there's no need to fine tune the maps by hand if there's enough of them. Even if you happen to have a bad terrain for on your behalf in one game, there'll be better coming for sure. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
252
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 for the map dev blog btw. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
317
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bald Crusader Two wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:The question is can you successfully execute it? "With these weapons, I don't know."
"I'll have a phase plasma pulse rifle in the 40 watt range" |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
314
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:I agree with the sentiment but at the same time it took me 5 seconds of reading to instantly think
LAVs and Dropships.
Yes AV could potentially blow them out of the sky, but again it comes down to knowing and recognizing the imbalance and coming up with a tactic.
A nice dropship and squashing those pesky snipers while dropping off a few MD's on top immediately turns the tables.
The question is can you successfully execute it? Clear sight for an advanced forge gun ruins that plan before the dropship hits the ground.
Call it in behind the mountain peaks opposite the bowl where that supply depot would be.
Then fast attack that sucker and learn to strafe that Dropship with the yaw controls as you straight line it for the tallest building, Also use a miltia ARMOR DS, throw a small shield repper on it as well and activate both shield and armor reppers the second you take off.
Geez do i really have to handhold everyone,, just buy Zitro's book already i learned this tactic on chapter 42. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
917
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps.
This is eve. Grow up+get skills, or quit. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
957
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps. This is eve. Grow up+get skills, or quit. you are an idiot. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
447
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bald Crusader Two wrote:Gunner Nightingale wrote:The question is can you successfully execute it? "With these weapons, I don't know."
+1 for Terminator 1 reference. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
913
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Posted - 2013.03.09 23:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
we don't even have the cloaking dropships yet, hold your horses |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1096
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Everything has an advantage- you just have to find it.
Plus, when you're invading a district later on, I doubt the devs will care if the defenders have an obvious "home field" advantage |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1947
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
You're gonna hate the map system when we finally get it  |
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Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
499
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
You mean the new Manus Peak map they used for the event?
Counter snipe, use the buildings to your own advantage (It's very easy to hide behind them), get in close, make liberal use of vehicles.
Those are all things that will help solve your problems.
Personally, I like asymmetric maps. |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
429
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Agree that the maps sometimes favor one side or another and I like it this way.
If we ever get a progressive style of gameplay, where there is a true defender and attacker (ala Rush in BF3) the defenders should have the better advantage, seeing how it is their territory.
We need more map variety because people are learning the layout of the few maps rather quickly. |
Aeryn Orpaul
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.03.10 01:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
uplinks and flanking go a long way and typically will turn a match strongly in your favor |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
959
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Posted - 2013.03.10 02:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Aeryn Orpaul wrote:uplinks and flanking go a long way and typically will turn a match strongly in your favor There ae literally no words to explain just how stupid some of you are.
you cant flank if there's nothing for you hide behind, or to sneak into a potion where the enemy wont notice you.
There is almost no, or very little cover in all of the maps this game has to offer. There needs to be smaller bits of cover that people can hide behind, or crouch down behind. Something that waist high. No, I am not asking for a cover system like what Gears, or most of the other 3RD person shooters have. All I am asking if FOR SOMETHING TO GET RID OF THE MASSIVE SIGHT LINES IN THIS GAME.
You don't need to add in human made objects to help balance out the cover in the game. Just throw in some rocks, dead/ petrified trees. Something to clutter up the map a little.
Doing this would also stop the sniper spam on skim junction, as 70% of that map is nothing but open space.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
111
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Posted - 2013.03.10 03:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter! |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
294
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Posted - 2013.03.10 03:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well damn. I PREFER to start at the north end (the lower altitude portion) of the Manus Peak OMS map... You make the enemy come to you, or run to a supply depot and snipe them until they do. That map is SO much fun from the north end, I just hate the north end in regular ambush. I prefer to be in the south or the south east next to the spires for the regular one. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
963
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Posted - 2013.03.10 03:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter! Do you not understand what GAMEPLAY>REALISM ******* MEANS?! |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
922
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Posted - 2013.03.10 04:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps. This is eve. Grow up+get skills, or quit. you are an idiot.
translation: "I am too weak for the EVE/Dust universe so I must QQ to fill the tear-receptacles of my betters." |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
501
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Posted - 2013.03.10 04:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Buster Friently wrote:The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter! Do you not understand what GAMEPLAY>REALISM ******* MEANS?!
I like asymmetric maps. Makes the fight more interesting, and it will make sense once we start actually attacking districts; better to get that training in early.
And flanking in a pub match using my scout suit is easy, you must be doing it wrong. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2013.03.10 04:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:Buster Friently wrote:The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter! Do you not understand what GAMEPLAY>REALISM ******* MEANS?! I like asymmetric maps. Makes the fight more interesting, and it will make sense once we start actually attacking districts; better to get that training in early. And flanking in a pub match using my scout suit is easy, you must be doing it wrong.
I flank in an assault suit. you just have to be patient and not sprint. and memorize where snipers will typically be, and assume they will be there until proven otherwise. |
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
294
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Buster Friently wrote:The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter! Do you not understand what GAMEPLAY>REALISM ******* MEANS?!
This is gameplay above realism. In DUST, you have a defender, AKA the the side who get's to fortify their position, and an attacker, AKA the side who has to adapt to the battlefield to capture the area. This is an important mechanic as it gives the defender a better chance of defending it's own property, and the attacker has to really fight hard to capture the area. It feels weird right now because we aren't actually able to capture anything in pub matches, but once the FW element is fully put in place and Null Sec is instituted, this will be VERY important.
TL;DR: Working as intended. |
CommanderBolt
Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn
Ignore This.
1
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
This is simple really.
Match type A. You have the attacker and defender type match where yes, the DEFENDER has cover and terrain advantage. This is reasonable.
Type B. other types of matches, in this instance the terrain should be balanced, you dont want every match to be an assault on the enemy main defenses.
How and when these matches take place is up to ccp and the community. I was just thinking this could be a tactical part of the gameplay. |
CommanderBolt
Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn
Ignore This.
1
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:The maps aren't meant to be balanced.
There's going to be a lot of them :)
Homefield advantage is going to be a real thing in Dust. Yay for an intelligent shooter!
Im glad most people agree on this. :) Yay for a not so generic shooter :) |
markarth zeon
dr.neose's assassins
0
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
[Do you not understand what GAMEPLAY>REALISM ******* MEANS?![/quote]
if your that upset play a different game and bicker at the players of that game |
Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
59
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Having ambush game where one side has to fight up hill with almost no cover, while the other side spawns in a building complex.
The other team gets a massive sniper advantage, and a **** load of cover, while the other team gets NOTHING BT A FEW INSTALLATIONS?!
Wtf were you thinking when you made this OMIS map? The team that spawns on the low end will almost always lose. They cant hide, the cant rush, there is nothing they can ******* do because theres nothing for them !
Some of you will probably say that it isnt realistic to give the attacking team that sort thing. But guess the **** what. Gameplay takes priority over realism if the gameplay is terrible, then the game will fail.
So let me ask you a question. When players have the ability to place installations, do you think they are going to make the placement fair to the enemy? The answer is no, they are going to do everything in their power to make the area as hard to attack and easy to defend as possible. That means that you will have a place to deploy, but it will be in a wide open area where the defending forces have the ability to wipe you out before you even get a foothold. CCP is doing nothing wrong here. Learn how to adapt and counter the tactics of the enemy. That is the only way you will succeed at this game. Keep in mind that this will eventually be a player driven game. The NPC corps will put out contracts, yes, but the real money will be in taking the contracts of player corporations. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
859
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Posted - 2013.03.10 05:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Eventually, if a particular district is particularly unbalanced for one side, everyone will want to own that district and the cost/reward of owning the district will come into play.
If it's a great district to own, then fight like mad and have a great strategy until it is YOUR district, and then you can fight off the people who want to take it from you. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
963
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Posted - 2013.03.10 06:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps. This is eve. Grow up+get skills, or quit. you are an idiot. translation: "I am too weak for the EVE/Dust universe so I must QQ to fill the tear-receptacles of my betters."
Heavies Under powered? Welcome to new Eden.
Assault rifle able to out do everything? Welcome to New Eden.
Assault Suit too good at everything? Welcome to New Eden.
Dropships are like glass coffins? Welcome to new Eden
Scouts too slow? Welcome to new Eden.
Proto heavies too expensive? Welcome to New Eden.
Nova knives useless? Welcome to New Eden.
Mass drivers have too much splash damage? Welcome to New Eden.
Maps are too open, and unbalanced? welcome to New Eden.
Swarms take no skill to use? welcome to New Eden.
AV nades deal too much damage? Welcome to New Eden
Orbitals are too easy to obtain? Welcome to New Eden.
Every problem this game has can be excused with that phrase. Instead of ignoring the problem. Why don't we try to fix it?
Oh wait, we don't do that because it's not the "New Eden way."
Excusing an issue by saying "welcome to New Eden" is literally the same as saying "It's a beta" |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
925
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Posted - 2013.03.10 06:52:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:The 2 first replies did exactly what i said would ******* happen.
Gameplay> realism.
Having one side where there is no cover of anykind will lead to poor gamepay, which will lead to rage. Which willlead to people quitting. Fix your ******* maps. This is eve. Grow up+get skills, or quit. you are an idiot. translation: "I am too weak for the EVE/Dust universe so I must QQ to fill the tear-receptacles of my betters." Heavies Under powered? Welcome to new Eden. Assault rifle able to out do everything? Welcome to New Eden. Assault Suit too good at everything? Welcome to New Eden. Dropships are like glass coffins? Welcome to new Eden Scouts too slow? Welcome to new Eden. Proto heavies too expensive? Welcome to New Eden. Nova knives useless? Welcome to New Eden. Mass drivers have too much splash damage? Welcome to New Eden. Maps are too open, and unbalanced? welcome to New Eden. Swarms take no skill to use? welcome to New Eden. AV nades deal too much damage? Welcome to New Eden Orbitals are too easy to obtain? Welcome to New Eden. Every problem this game has can be excused with that phrase. Instead of ignoring the problem. Why don't we try to fix it? Oh wait, we don't do that because it's not the "New Eden way." Excusing an issue by saying "welcome to New Eden" is literally the same as saying "It's a beta"
not all of those are problems, just some, like those surrounding the heavies and dropships.
Also, continue your QQ. My tear cup overflows. |
Zekain Kade
BetaMax.
963
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Posted - 2013.03.10 06:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
Welcome to New Eden. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
298
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Posted - 2013.03.10 07:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:Zekain Kade wrote:complaints about people who did not agree unconstructive rebuttal to complaints blatant insult retaliatory insult complaining all issues in Dust as having the excuse of being in "New Eden, so HTFU" (paraphrasing), when in fact many of the issues listed are heavily debated to this day
Don't you love the internet? Such intelligence! So much maturity!
Anyway, those issues you listed are still being debated. The issue you listed here is the way it is supposed to work. One side defends, and to defend you need a fortified position. Since you are defending territory, that means you had it before your attackers ever arrived, which means you have the advantage of a defensible position. The attackers have to break that defensible position. It's how this game is meant to be played. They will probably add the type of maps you want eventually, most likely in an ambush setting or similar, but since this game is all about attacking and defending planets and districts, this is how maps are set up. It is by design, and as long as this game is about attacking and defending planets and districts, it needs to stay that way.
Not everyone gives the "welcome to New Eden" excuse for things being unbalanced, but this is one of those cases where that is what our side of New Eden is about. Attacking and defending. That's our job, and the maps reflect that.
That said, they do need more maps that are evenly balanced so you can have some even footing in ambushes since ambushes aren't really about taking territory so much as dwindling the enemy's financial resources. |
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Gusk Hevv
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.03.10 08:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Call Concord ! I have overdosed on tears! HALP! |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1102
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Posted - 2013.03.10 10:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Well duh nobody claimed that terrain is fair. Is nature fair? Nope. You cant blame a defending side to gain ground advantage. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
100
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Posted - 2013.03.10 10:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
A good team should be available to turn a disadvantage into an advantage.
Holding the high ground in a battle give you a better defensive position, but also traps you in a small area. A good team, with clever drop up-links deployments, can turn the battle around very easily.  |
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