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TheArchon
G I A N T
0
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Posted - 2013.03.08 05:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey all, first time posting on the forums.
Let me be frank, I love the kinetic catalyzer. A Vk0 scout can have a 10 sprint speed using three proto leveled catalyzers. That's just outright ridiculous. But the problem I see with them (as someone who runs a scout/kill logi hybrid) is that there's no movement speed buff.
And maybe there's a reason for that (I point to: Strafing).
While I understand that a scout using even a militia catalyzer would give a Vk0 a healthy '5.88' movement speed; adding any armor plating to any suit doesn't allow the movement speed to be improved. Therein, my request would be to have the kinetic catalyzer buff the movement speed as well; and even still, maybe not the same amount that was added to the sprint speed (again, because of the potential exploitation of Usain Bolt-like strafing). |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1052
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Posted - 2013.03.08 05:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheArchon wrote:Hey all, first time posting on the forums.
Let me be frank, I love the kinetic catalyzer. A Vk0 scout can have a 10 sprint speed using three proto leveled catalyzers. That's just outright ridiculous. But the problem I see with them (as someone who runs a scout/kill logi hybrid) is that there's no movement speed buff.
And maybe there's a reason for that (I point to: Strafing).
While I understand that a scout using even a militia catalyzer would give a Vk0 a healthy '5.88' movement speed; adding any armor plating to any suit doesn't allow the movement speed to be improved. Therein, my request would be to have the kinetic catalyzer buff the movement speed as well; and even still, maybe not the same amount that was added to the sprint speed (again, because of the potential exploitation of Usain Bolt-like strafing).
Okay, I brought this up once and I'm going to bring it up here because it's relevant.
This suit? The scout dropsuit? It's supposed to have built-in servomotors and what-not that increases movement speed of the user. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH even at 10 meters a second (36 kilometers per hour or 22 miles per hour) you're still running slower than Usain Bolt's average speed of 23.2 mph.
And that's with a Vk0 and three proto catalyzers.
Honestly, I've been advocating a buff to the scout ever since they nerfed the absolute **** out of it with the strafe speed reduction in tandem with the implementation of hit scan. To top it off, due to the lag the hit box will drag behind the model and a lot of times you'll wind up dying even though you've already rounded the corner behind cover.
So +1 because the Scout has VERY VERY little going for it in terms of survivability despite hallmarking that it's speed is the main source of it's defense. The fact that Usain Bolt remains the faster competition, even without the use of technological advances, sort of makes me irritated. |
TheArchon
G I A N T
1
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Posted - 2013.03.08 05:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
I fully agree about buffing the scout suit. I'm fine with where the HP is. It makes sense; as the scout is supposed to be paper. But we don't see much in return (in terms of CPU/PG or...anything). But even without the built-in attribute to the scout, the catalyzers should negate the [movement] speed lost by armor. I feel like that's reasonable enough. There's no innate attribute to purely upgrading the kinetic catalzers. It all lies within fitting the PG intensive module on one's dropsuit (thus helping in negating the possibly OP-ness of it all). |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
525
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Posted - 2013.03.08 06:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
TheArchon wrote: fitting the PG intensive module on one's dropsuit (thus helping in negating the possibly OP-ness of it all).
There's only one module that breaks the PG on my dropsuits, literally one and those are Kinetic Catalyzers. Strafe speed is a good discussion to spark up though because that's the do or die in FPS so perhaps instead of boosting overall movement speed by the same amount, maybe reduced percentage bonus to the basic movement speed because sprinting requires stamina but just moving around doesn't so to balance it....also I'm going to drop a link here... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=60283&p=1 |
RHYTHMIK Designs
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
56
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Posted - 2013.03.19 19:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Go off what Bojo said, make the movement bonus 60%of the sprint bonus. So with a std. KC, you'd get a 3% movement bonus and 5% sprint bonus. Advanced - 4.8% move, 8% sprint. Proto - 7.2% move, 2% sprint. I think that seems fair. |
mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
87
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Posted - 2013.03.19 19:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
All of this is well and good. But they also have to get the animations and physics correct.
I'd expect a complex kin cat stack on a proto suit should have you running around 16-18ms.. so about 35-40 MPH. Why would you develop advanced technology to run just the tip top of human speed? The movement speed SHOULD be jacked up as well otherwise it doesn't make physical sense? I'm thinking that this is on the list of stuff for them to work on balancing. IT's just a long list right now :)
As an aside, maybe you can hit an inject button and you see your speed boosted... like blood doping of sorts :D
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Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1096
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Posted - 2013.03.19 20:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just saying a Scout should be able to keep up with an armor tanked HAV O_o; |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1223
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Posted - 2013.03.20 08:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
TheArchon wrote:I fully agree about buffing the scout suit. I'm fine with where the HP is. It makes sense; as the scout is supposed to be paper. But we don't see much in return (in terms of CPU/PG or...anything). But even without the built-in attribute to the scout, the catalyzers should negate the [movement] speed lost by armor. I feel like that's reasonable enough. There's no innate attribute to purely upgrading the kinetic catalzers. It all lies within fitting the PG intensive module on one's dropsuit (thus helping in negating the possibly OP-ness of it all).
Personally, i still think the last movement nerf done after precursor was way too hard. On all classes. And what it partiularly hurt is the difference in base speed between heavies, assault, logi and scout.
I can get that they wanted to pace down the game. But then, they shouldnt have go "-25%" speed for everyone. Should have been -30 for heavies, -20 for assault logi and -10 for scouts. In order to maintain the specificity of each classes.
Would have avoided many buff\nerf related to that change. |
Bhor Derri
Legion of Eden
102
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Posted - 2013.03.20 11:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Just saying a Scout should be able to keep up with an armor tanked HAV O_o;
Needless to say CCP ruined the living **** out of the already slow as balls armor HAVs by making it even slower fix them CCP |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1099
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Posted - 2013.03.20 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bhor Derri wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Just saying a Scout should be able to keep up with an armor tanked HAV O_o; Needless to say CCP ruined the living **** out of the already slow as balls armor HAVs by making it even slower fix them CCP
"Hey, guys, wouldn't it be cool if - while making them slow due to their armor - we had them catch on fire for no apparent reason when they got low on Armor?"
"Ummm.. No. That doesn't happen in Eve Online, so why should it happen in Dust 514?"
"Because it's cool! Oh, by the way, no hull bar."
"1%!#$!#%!#?!"
Edit: I'm just saying, I don't remember being asked for my feedback about this "feature". |
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Jack Sharkey42
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
55
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Posted - 2013.03.20 13:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:[quote=TheArchon]
So +1 because the Scout has VERY VERY little going for it in terms of survivability despite hallmarking that it's speed is the main source of it's defense. The fact that Usain Bolt remains the faster competition, even without the use of technological advances, sort of makes me irritated.
I'm ok with my clone in a drop suit not being as fast as one of the fastest people in history unencumbered lol |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1100
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Posted - 2013.03.20 13:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack Sharkey42 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:[quote=TheArchon]
So +1 because the Scout has VERY VERY little going for it in terms of survivability despite hallmarking that it's speed is the main source of it's defense. The fact that Usain Bolt remains the faster competition, even without the use of technological advances, sort of makes me irritated. I'm ok with my clone in a drop suit not being as fast as one of the fastest people in history unencumbered lol
Right, but we're supposed to have servomotors built into our one-piece jump suit O_o; Supposed to make us run faster X_x; |
ugg reset
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
236
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Posted - 2013.03.20 13:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
TheArchon wrote: you're still running slower than Usain Bolt's average speed of 23.2 mph. I'd like to see Usain break 20 MPH with an Assault rifle in his hands. Also, what if I told you that movement speed is based on gameplay, not real life physics? |
Kesi Raae Kaae
Much Crying Old Experts
63
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Posted - 2013.03.20 14:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
ugg reset wrote: Also, what if I told you that movement speed is based on gameplay, not real life physics?
Such crazy talk has no place on these forums
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Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1102
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Posted - 2013.03.20 18:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
ugg reset wrote:TheArchon wrote: you're still running slower than Usain Bolt's average speed of 23.2 mph. I'd like to see Usain break 20 MPH with an Assault rifle in his hands. Also, what if I told you that movement speed is based on gameplay, not real life physics?
Alright, let's put the Assault Suit versus the Scout in the 100m dash and see who wins.
The Assault Suit takes off to a blinding start! He's sprinting down the line with no obstructions! 14.286 seconds later he reaches the finish!
The Scout Suit is in hot pursuit with nova knives out! He's hot on the tail of the Assault Suit - 13.158 seconds later he reaches the finish line and attempts to charge his knives so that he can remove the Assault Suit from play - OH NO! The 1.5 second charge up time has just allowed the Assault Suit to leave melee range by an entire 0.372 seconds!
Yeah. You're really not getting that big of a bonus in terms of speed. So even based on gameplay the damned thing sucks. You're sacrificing a hell of a lot for that whole 0.6 meters per second increase to your sprint speed and to top it off I'm utterly convinced that the scan system is broken.
Ever try to sneak up on a Heavy just to have him turn around, guns ablaze like he knew you were there to begin with? Some really annoying **** - hard to get out of it too.
Speed? Nope. Barely faster than an Assault Suit and you can't strafe to save your fuckin' life. Original conception was that you could dance circles around Heavies (the scout was supposed to be their natural counter) but people kept QQing about their strafe speed in tandem with Ballistics Mechanics at the time. So they not only reduced strafe speed (like a mother ******) they implemented Hit Scan. So began the death of the Scout Suit.
Sneaky? Hardly. Point in his general direction and he lights up like a Christmas Tree for your entire team, same as anyone else.
Durability? Hah! Just saying, I'm rocking level 5 Mechanics and Shield Control with a grand total of about 300 or so EHP. Assault Rifle can rock out with >500 DPS. You don't have room for errors and you sure as **** can't move out of their turn speed when they're firing.
Versatility? Least amount of CPU/PG in the-game and uses PG Dependent modules. Laughable at best. I can just barely get a full rack of standard gear when using a CPU Enhancer and I have both Engineering and Electronics to 5 (max CPU/PG output for dropsuit).
Only reason I choose to specialize in the Scout Suit is because I have -always- gone with the underdog. I have -always- played the most difficult builds because it offers me more of a challenge and allows me to see the fundamental flaws in certain gameplay aspects. There was a point where people kept saying that the Scout suit wasn't meant to be a front-line unit, and that it was supposed to be a sniper. Interestingly enough, the Sniper Rifle can be used by any suit. Why choose the least durable suit with the least CPU/PG to play sniper, in that case? |
Jathniel
G I A N T
99
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Posted - 2013.03.20 18:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
omg so much THIS^
and by "THIS^" I mean, nearly EVERYTHING everyone has said.
frickin +1 for everyone here.
Something just HAS to give with the scout suit. Between the exaggerated shield defense for the assault suit, and the fact that Heavies should be hard to kill.... the scout's suits mobility means nothing, if it's supposed to rely on it.
A cloacking device? A mobility buff? How about a bunch of gizmos to boost it's infiltrator skills?
Why in God's green earth does a LOGI suit have a faster hack speed than a scout? Isn't the scout supposed to be the infiltrator.... You can go on and on... |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1108
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Posted - 2013.03.20 20:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:omg so much THIS^
and by "THIS^" I mean, nearly EVERYTHING everyone has said.
frickin +1 for everyone here.
Something just HAS to give with the scout suit. Between the exaggerated shield defense for the assault suit, and the fact that Heavies should be hard to kill.... the scout's suits mobility means nothing, if it's supposed to rely on it.
A cloacking device? A mobility buff? How about a bunch of gizmos to boost it's infiltrator skills?
Why in God's green earth does a LOGI suit have a faster hack speed than a scout? Isn't the scout supposed to be the infiltrator.... You can go on and on...
Oh dude I argued the absolute **** out of this. Made no sense to me.
That and the fact that some IDIOT designed the Code Hacker modules to go IN THE SAME FREAGGIN SLOT AS THE KINETIC CATALYZERS |
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