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Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.03.07 20:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:They actually do very well. The reason you see HAVs isn't because they are overpowered, it's because they serve a role in the game. If everyone was running around in a HAV, that would be kind of pointless. HAVs are not overpowered. If anything, the often urban environment of the districts frequently gives them the finger. Vehicle physics are especially bad, and trying to move through an urban environment with a HAV is like a fat guy squeezing through a hole in the wall.
Either way, there is no reason to remove vehicles, and this has been suggested many times too many.
For Christ's sake, just get some AV grenades. Those things are devastating.
You obviously are not a good HAV player, as it stands right now, folks trying to skill up, or just get some training have to deal with good players who use HAV as their 'Drop suit'.
What does that get a good HAV player(not you, because of what you said above, maybe you spoke too fast)
- (Can easily get out of dodge, because they know/are aware of good cover.) You cannot headshot/OHK a HAV. Good players cannot be killed without focus fire from multiple players. Not true for any other player with exception of Heavy suit much better with 2 attackers but surprise will let you kill one on one.
- Have unlimited ammo requiring no/little support. They thought it important for Heavy Drop suits to have limits... Not HAV drop suit.. Those players are OK to be fully self sufficient for their 8 minutes of fun.
- move faster than players when they need to. Talking about good players, who are situationaly aware not to be in stupid area.
- Immune to anti-infantry weapons. You come in one suit, and never have to adapt. But the infantry needs to die to your gun, or get to Supply Depot and change to be almost helpless against infantry so he can hurt the player in HAV drop suit. Again, talking about all good players out on the field. So HAV kills everything, but you have to take serious penalty.
I can go on, because I've actually played the game like OP, but to my point. Killing tanks is just not worth the reward for all the risks that you take as infantry AV. You come out as net loss, all the time the HAV player is getting better in his self sufficient kill everyone, immune to most weapons Drop suit. So everyone else takes serious negative for supposed advantage while HAV because of 'Isk' cost have none. In reality, there is no balance between such players during their 8 minute fight. And that is the point of OP.
Again, think about all competent/good players on field before you talk.
Lastly, the only antitank is another tank. You really have too little experience with Dust if you have not come to understand that.
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Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.03.07 21:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:Alderstaz wrote:
Lastly, the only antitank is another tank. You really have too little experience with Dust if you have not come to understand that.
Until CCP gives us bombers and jets,  ! Oh the Derpa derp tears will be flowing then.
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Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 21:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
The point is player A is HAV, player B is anything else. Both good players.
Player A tells others to adapt/change to deal with situation.
Does player A have to ever change anything during match?
Infantry AV comes at serious anti-infantry cost. Specific infantry roles come with significant weaknesses. Like Heavy having no equipment slot. Like all infantry being succeptible to OHKs. Pretty balanced time to live. Nothing new. Standard FPS.
Player A however, does what player A wants entire match. Its a bird, a plane, a man , doesn't matter...
Classic FOTM. For entire match, no matter what the match, player A sits in HAV and plays whack a mole.
What does any other player do, they adapt, they change roles/fittings...
Pub matches are only place for Everyone to get skill points and train...
As designed, HAVs don't belong on same map as an infantry player. Its like two separate games. Nothing against HAVs in Corp/win matters matches. But like a knife in gun fight, infantry don't belong in currently designed pub matches. Maps with tons of SD won't matter, if its bad map for HAV won't matter. It should be reasonably same fun and effort no matter what your drop suit.
Talking about two players who come into a match. Mostly OK no matter what infantry fitting either choose. Not so if one chooses |
Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 22:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Only reason I'm responding is to try to figure direction. Don't take it personally, but I have too much experience with FPS/MMOs.
The omega boosters gave sneak peak of $49/month subscription rate(merc gives 30 day active not passive, as I was corrected) as base rate, plus you need Aur for best in slot weapons and gear( go look in market place, don't take my word). When Corp battle wins matter, you'll need it to be on same footing.
The only reasonably balanced map is the hills one, where starting side doesn't matter. New spawn strategy is great for it. The other maps have key locations that a starting blob near them has significant advantage all things being equal. A design issue.. Why random spawn was good for them.
Nothing against you, but what I'm stating with HAV are facts, not opinion. They are design choices that the devs had to make. Unlimited ammo for HAV but none for Heavy were conscious decisions. One hit killable infantry, one/two clip killable infantry versus much longer time to live HAV are design decisions. A players experience/expectations in either role is very different. And that to me is bad. Because its an 8 minute match for all.
The decision of what's in the game now at this point in time is a choice. This is PS3, there is not much tech support overhead. After all this time.
Anyway, imagine you're really good player. Imagine everyone is. They always make good choices. What does a HAV player do? What then do every infantry player do?
As designed, you get real skill points and experience in pub matches. I fully discount Ambush as it is again the developers conscious design choice after all this time not to deal with AFKers.
Nothing new here, they've run Eve for 10 years.
So again, its all conscious design decisions, FPS have been around forever and balance issues are nothing new to Eve.
As a player, there is too much imbalance toward vehicle, if everyone's time is worth the same. |
Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 22:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alderstaz wrote: gigantic strawman post. No. If you want to succeed you need to be able to use all of the tools. Most of the people who **** and moan about tanks automatically dismiss the usefulness of heavies and swarms because it reduces their effectiveness against infantry. If you choose to not bring an anti tank weapon onto the field to counter the tanks you are going to get steamrolled. It's that simple. I have taken the time to skill AV above minimum for proto. i routinely drive Marauders off the field and kill anything less. But i only deploy it when I need vehicleds destroyed. I run my HMG or assault suit otherwise. but every argument here dismisses this as an option. Because why? You don't want to spend the skill points there? That is not the HAV driver's problem, it's yours.
If you're infantry you must adapt.
If you're HAV, you play whack a mole. I'm not disagreeing with what good infantry does.
But after first week or so, I realized infantry AV has serious draw backs. HAV is all purpose, no draw backs. As far as a player at console is concerned. Which is why I don't bother with AV except grenades for LAV heavy matches.
Not in a vacuum, in a match. After you kill one tank, what do you do as full AV infantry. Didnt mean to say you... Don't take it personally, I'm sure your fine...
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Alderstaz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 23:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Alderstaz wrote:
Not in a vacuum, in a match. After you kill one tank, what do you do as full AV infantry. Didnt mean to say you... Don't take it personally, I'm sure your fine...
I use my assault forge gun to run around and clip any red dot who gets between me and the supply depot whereupon i shall refit to my trusty HMG and go shoot more people in the face. if I die, my work was done already. your tank is dead. I have no urther need for the suit. Plus i'm really good at zapping infantry trying to move across open ground with assault forges. Rarely get the direct-hit one-shot though. usually takes 2-3 splashes to kill the rangy little buggers. Edit: before you ask "what if there's no supply depots my answer is as follows: go to map, choose suicide option. respawn in more appropriate suit.
Now imagine you were an HAV player. Do you ever have to stab yourself in eye to become paper to fight what I say is no rock. Because this rock doesn't care what you are. Just too much imbalance in what some Isk gets you.
They don't belong in matches with infantry. You listed a good chunck of what good infantry have to do. What does a good HAV do? No need to resupply, no worry about being one shotted, can kill anything, immune to most players.
I'm perfectly OK, with HAVs in strategic Corp fights...
Of course planned future changes to game could change this. But right now, good vehicle users just run over infantry with no weakness. Player versus player. Not team versus team. They are consciously designed for Corp battles. |
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