DUST Search - Change of strategy and importance of roles in big maps.

zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote:

gbghg wrote:

Nguruthos IX wrote:

gbghg wrote:

860 wrote:

Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights.

.

actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft.

Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P

I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but when we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots.

Im thinking that perhaps with the bigger maps the Dropships might be over looked easier than in the current maps

scenario now:
See a drop ship
everyone with Swarm launcher or other av they can switch too or have equipped aims

Possible scenario with bigger maps:
Drop ship flies quietly around major battle points to where it wants to go
possible taking fire from a jet
Keep in mind though that jets May be very expensive
meaning we might see less of them

even if the jets do see them
drop ships might have counter measures like flares and things to avoid missiles by then
IDK though lol
just my 0.2 isk

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860 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:39:00 - [1] - Quote Go to the Overview Map in any match. This is Dust at it's current state. Zoom out all the way. This is Dust when it is released. When CCP makes the jump from the current small maps to the big maps the order of importance will be shaken up quite violently. I'm not saying this like it's a bad thing, no. I'm looking forward to the big maps and the new dimension of tactics it'll bring and I'm not even saying that big maps is all we're going to get. I can't really imagine a pub Ambush taking place on a 5km x 5km area. Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. What will become of the CQC shotgun scout who has spent all his SP into that role? Dust to dust, that's what. When do you think they will give us access to the big maps? Are they even going to give us the whole map all of the sudden or are they slowly going to make the maps bigger? Will you be preparing for the bigger maps by focusing your SP on mid and long range roles aswell as vehicles? How do you think the switch is going to affect the importance of vehicles, tactics and roles on the battlefield especially in corp matches? I think this is a really interesting subject and I'd love to get some good discussion out of it.
Rifter7 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 30	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:41:00 - [2] - Quote 860 wrote: What will become of the CQC shotgun scout who has spent all his SP into that role? Dust to dust, that's what. uh.. sitting on a point as usual?
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 445	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:48:00 - [3] - Quote 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:54:00 - [4] - Quote gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 837	Posted - 2013.03.02 19:57:00 - [5] - Quote To me, this game will never truly be balanced until they make these maps the size shown when you fully zoom out. Everything that was designed in this game when it was first released did what CCP thought it should do on a mass battlefield, but ever since first release they have constantly tweaked EVERYTHING to what it should be on the tiny maps we have now. When big maps are released we will see a lot of imbalance, and people will cry. Just my 2 cents.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 445	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:03:00 - [6] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:07:00 - [7] - Quote gbghg wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but when we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots. at a 700ISK price tag, I'd say that's too hazardous to fly under those conditions. Fronting the full cost of this role will never pay off.
zeek1227 zeek1227 Blitzkrieg Co. 159	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:12:00 - [8] - Quote gbghg wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but when we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots. Im thinking that perhaps with the bigger maps the Dropships might be over looked easier than in the current maps scenario now: See a drop ship everyone with Swarm launcher or other av they can switch too or have equipped aims Possible scenario with bigger maps: Drop ship flies quietly around major battle points to where it wants to go possible taking fire from a jet Keep in mind though that jets May be very expensive meaning we might see less of them even if the jets do see them drop ships might have counter measures like flares and things to avoid missiles by then IDK though lol just my 0.2 isk
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 445	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:15:00 - [9] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but when we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots. at a 700ISK price tag, I'd say that's too hazardous to fly under those conditions. Fronting the full cost of this role will never pay off. I see it as a matter of pride that I have never asked for corp money to fund my dropships and remain independent in funding them, but I can't see that being viable in the future. I'm afraid that they might end up like the transport helicopters in bf3, used to gain an early advantage then utterly ignored unless a sniper wants to get to a good vantage spot.
Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:28:00 - [10] - Quote zeek1227 zeek1227 wrote: gbghg wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: gbghg wrote: 860 wrote: Dropships are clearly going to become absolutely mandatory. Getting people from A to B quicly will be vital. Not only that but having dropships scout the map for enemy intel. Where are their tanks? Which way are they coming from? Can we position ourselves in a vantage point on their route? Do they have dropships spying on our side and last but not least, sweet baby Jesus, dropship dogfights. . actually we're going to get fighters and maybe gunships, so the sky's will become very unsafe for dropships. I definitely want countermeasures and points for actually doing a dropships job, otherwise most pilots will just switch over to other aircraft. Surely you don't mean to say that the sky's are safe for dropships now. :P I'm not that foolish, but at the minute we can run away and hide from AV users, but when we get enemies that can go faster than us, can do way more damage than we can, and can follow us everywhere, things are going to get very nasty for dropship pilots. Im thinking that perhaps with the bigger maps the Dropships might be over looked easier than in the current maps scenario now: See a drop ship everyone with Swarm launcher or other av they can switch too or have equipped aims Possible scenario with bigger maps: Drop ship flies quietly around major battle points to where it wants to go possible taking fire from a jet Keep in mind though that jets May be very expensive meaning we might see less of them even if the jets do see them drop ships might have counter measures like flares and things to avoid missiles by then IDK though lol just my 0.2 isk When I'm not in a map so small that I'm always within 1 forge gunners range it might improve. But the problem with vehicles is that we pay for it, call it in, and then it's a constant liability. Whereas ground troops for not even a fraction of the cost can just stop by a supply depot and swap to AV at their whim. Then put it away once we're either dead or out of range. Remember the matrix? Anyone who's still plugged in... Is an Agent. Anytime you see a supply depot on a map with red player no matter their current outfit, they can and will instantly become a forge gun of doom. TL;DR, in big maps, supply depots will be death beacons.

Nguruthos IX Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:30:00 - [11] - Quote gbghg wrote: I see it as a matter of pride that I have never asked for corp money to fund my dropships and remain independent in funding them, but I can't see that being viable in the future. I'm afraid that they might end up like the transport helicopters in bf3, used to gain an early advantage then utterly ignored unless a sniper wants to get to a good vantage spot. Kameira Lodge never paid for one of my ships :(
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 14	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:30:00 - [12] - Quote I havent seen it confirmed that the red zones on the current maps will expand into a map for a giant game modes. Is that likely yes and i believe it. It's never been confirmed though. Also your mental if you think we are going to have all that territory before release. The time it takes for new maps to be entered into the game/tested will not allow that. What will happen to close range? The same thing that happens in arma 2. The map is massive. It would seriously take you over an hour to walk from one side to the other. 80% of the transportation is by helicopters controlled by players. Shotgunners get in the helis go to the objective and jump out. That's what close ranged people will do. They will fight on objectives. Long range people will fight on objectives/out skirts. The tactics will very much change it will be very exciting. I think dropships will be hugely important for transport/scout rolls. I can't wait. I hope we get black ops tanks too. Long range weapons will have and advantage. They do in every game. There isn't a game where you can sit in the back and shoot the shotgunner running towards you. Fair enough these maps will be large the solution for short ranged people is to not run into a 100km clearing. Those games aren't broken this one won't break either. I think when bigger maps become the norm they will re-balance somethings.
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 14	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:34:00 - [13] - Quote Double post.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 445	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:49:00 - [14] - Quote How? there's a 4 minute difference in your post time and the post wasn't edited, what are you up to?...
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 14	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:51:00 - [15] - Quote gbghg wrote: How? there's a 4 minute difference in your post time and the post wasn't edited, what are you up to?... I was trying to edit my first post but acidently quoted. I didn't know id be under interrogation when i said double post ;P
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 445	Posted - 2013.03.02 20:57:00 - [16] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: gbghg wrote: How? there's a 4 minute difference in your post time and the post wasn't edited, what are you up to?... I was trying to edit my first post but acidently quoted. I didn't know id be under interrogation when i said double post ;P It just looked strange.
860 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:46:00 - [17] - Quote Rifter7 wrote: 860 wrote: What will become of the CQC shotgun scout who has spent all his SP into that role? Dust to dust, that's what. uh.. sitting on a point as usual? Oh, shut up you. It was a clever line. I had to use it. On topic: How much do you think the maps are going to change and how? Surely they can't stay as mountanous wastelands with a hotspot in the middle. I think we're going to see alot more buildings around the map.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 304	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:56:00 - [18] - Quote 860 wrote: Rifter7 wrote: 860 wrote: What will become of the CQC shotgun scout who has spent all his SP into that role? Dust to dust, that's what. uh.. sitting on a point as usual? Oh, shut up you. It was a clever line. I had to use it. On topic: How much do you think the maps are going to change and how? Surely they can't stay as mountanous wastelands with a hotspot in the middle. I think we're going to see alot more buildings around the map. If you examine the maps under the map feedback section you'll notice that we've been playing different areas of one big map. Perhaps our objectives will move from one zone to the next as the battle progresses.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1073	Posted - 2013.03.02 23:01:00 - [19] - Quote And scouts will actually be scouts- using their sniper rifles and superior scanning to find the enemy, without being seen.


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