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ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION...........................
This skill says " 2% to handheld wepon damage per lvl ". Yet ther is no connection to the Base of the gun ! If use Assault Rifle i should be able to calculate what this does and the numbers. Some say its BROKEN, but NUMBERS dont LIE for ex
1 + 1 = 2. This is the only thing that is ABSOLUTE 1+1 will always and forever be 2.
With this being said I would like clarity on how the damage should & or is Calulated. This in no way Disputes anyones RELIGION as Im searching for clarity. So please walk with me...............
The lvl 1 STANDARD ASSAULT RILFE is the base for this particular weapon its dmg is 31.0 The only skill that that as far as i can see that adds dmg directly into this weapon is ASSAULT RIFLE OP PROFICIENCY this add 3% per lvl when skilled up to lvl 5 this adds a 15% increase to the Base of this weapon.
EQUATION 1 ......... Base 31.0 x PROF .15 = 4.65
Base 31.0 + RESULT 4.65 = 35.65 / * NEW BASE FOR SKILLED WEAPON *
I dont see any connection to weaponry so I will simply use the Multipler in my suit to continue with my caluculations. Before I place any dmg mods in my suit the number is 1.00. As I begin to ADD dmg MODS, I notice what happens:
EQUATION 2...........DMG MOD 1 MULTIPLYER 1.10 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 39.2150 Dmg per unit
DMG MOD 2 MULTIPLYER 1.21 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 43.1365 Dmg per unit
DMG MOD 3 MULTIPLYER 1.33 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 47.4145 Dmg per unit
Conclusion: The skill weaponry applies only to the active use of the modules Not the wepon BASE AT ALL, and the 10 % for completing this skill to lvl 5 is merely .01 which gets added correctly when using 3 COMPLEX DMG MODS. by the way it tyotals just under 1 hit point in calculations as .03 when converted to dmg is 0.93 ( 31.0 x .03 ). So this is truly what this skill itself adds were talking about almost 1 dmg more as a skill bonus that is received only when module is in place.
Id like to know why the difference in numbers and why when the first one is placed it doesnt say 1.11. Shouldnt lvl 2 be 1.22, then lvl 3 would be 1.33 as stated. I can only think of stacking penalty but still doesnt quite fit. I know its a spreadsheet but, whats the EQUATION wher do these nubers come from and go? Help me out I need this explained, as I can only go by what I see. Whats the true way to do this and whats going on here?
END TRANSMISSION.........................
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION........................... This skill says " 2% to handheld wepon damage per lvl ". Yet ther is no connection to the Base of the gun ! If use Assault Rifle i should be able to calculate what this does and the numbers. Some say its BROKEN, but NUMBERS dont LIE for ex 1 + 1 = 2. This is the only thing that is ABSOLUTE 1+1 will always and forever be 2. With this being said I would like clarity on how the damage should & or is Calulated. This in no way Disputes anyones RELIGION as Im searching for clarity. So please walk with me............... The lvl 1 STANDARD ASSAULT RILFE is the base for this particular weapon its dmg is 31.0 The only skill that that as far as i can see that adds dmg directly into this weapon is ASSAULT RIFLE OP PROFICIENCY this add 3% per lvl when skilled up to lvl 5 this adds a 15% increase to the Base of this weapon. EQUATION 1 ......... Base 31.0 x PROF .15 = 4.65 Base 31.0 + RESULT 4.65 = 35.65 / * NEW BASE FOR SKILLED WEAPON * I dont see any connection to weaponry so I will simply use the Multipler in my suit to continue with my caluculations. Before I place any dmg mods in my suit the number is 1.00. As I begin to ADD dmg MODS, I notice what happens: EQUATION 2......... DMG MOD 1 MULTIPLYER 1.10 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 39.2150 Dmg per unit DMG MOD 2 MULTIPLYER 1.21 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 43.1365 Dmg per unit DMG MOD 3 MULTIPLYER 1.33 x *NEW BASE* 35.65 = 47.4145 Dmg per unit Conclusion: The skill weaponry applies only to the active use of the modules Not the wepon BASE AT ALL, and the 10 % for completing this skill to lvl 5 is merely .01 which gets added correctly when using 3 COMPLEX DMG MODS. by the way it tyotals just under 1 hit point in calculations as .03 when converted to dmg is 0.93 ( 31.0 x .03 ). So this is truly what this skill itself adds were talking about almost 1 dmg more as a skill bonus that is received only when module is in place. Id like to know why the difference in numbers and why when the first one is placed it doesnt say 1.11. Shouldnt lvl 2 be 1.22, then lvl 3 would be 1.33 as stated. I can only think of stacking penalty but still doesnt quite fit. I know its a spreadsheet but, whats the EQUATION wher do these nubers come from and go? Help me out I need this explained, as I can only go by what I see. Whats the true way to do this and whats going on here? END TRANSMISSION.........................
Why is it no one understands math anymore?
The reason two complex mods is 1.21 is because 1.1x1.1=1.21.
Three complex mods are the same: 1.1x1.1x1.1=1.331
This has nothing to do with any skills, it is simply how percentages work.
The only thing wrong here is your conclusions and the fact that stacking penalties are not in the game yet. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION.....................
So where does the 2% per lvl go and travel ?
END TRANSMISSION.......................... |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think skills are actually showing on Suit Stats. Every time I've looked at stats on my loadouts, it only shows the equipment/mods that are currently loaded, but not anything related to skills. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION..................... So where does the 2% per lvl go and travel ? END TRANSMISSION..........................
Well based on your first post, you just didn't multiply it in.
What do you want me to say? You have no data from the game, you've just done the math wrong and then say "Where'd this number go?" You didn't include that number in your math, so it didn't go anywhere.
This has no bearing on the fact that the extra percent or few that you are seeing in the damage multiplier on the fittings page considers the damage modifiers only. That number doesn't account for any skills. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION.......................
What is the 2% refering to. How and when is it applied? Dont just tell me.Show me how and why. We dont have to assume. Numbers write eqations than are provable or not. They are absolute I wanna know what it is and how it works and where to apply the 2% as this weaponry skill states. As I have posted here because of lack of clarity. Other skills Calculate just fine. This one doesnt seem too.
END TRANSMISSION.......................... |
Spec Ops Cipher
UnReaL.
15
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION........................... This skill says " 2% to handheld wepon damage per lvl ". Yet ther is no connection to the Base of the gun ! If use Assault Rifle i should be able to calculate what this does and the numbers. Some say its BROKEN, but NUMBERS dont LIE for ex 1 + 1 = 2. This is the only thing that is ABSOLUTE 1+1 will always and forever be 2. ... END TRANSMISSION.........................
1+1 = 1 in a certain branch of mathematics. +1 to the first to name it :P
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION....................... What is the 2% refering to. How and when is it applied? Dont just tell me.Show me how and why. We dont have to assume. Numbers write eqations than are provable or not. They are absolute I wanna know what it is and how it works. END TRANSMISSION..........................
2% to damage, just like it says. Applied using math, when you shoot someone. I can't show you though, because we don't have a combat log, so there is no where in the game that currently shows your points of a hit.
If you'd like to test this to collect the necessary data, you need to have a friend on the other team shoot you in a controlled fashion so you can record the delta in your shields/armor from hits and check vs their skill levels.
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION........................... This skill says " 2% to handheld wepon damage per lvl ". Yet ther is no connection to the Base of the gun ! If use Assault Rifle i should be able to calculate what this does and the numbers. Some say its BROKEN, but NUMBERS dont LIE for ex 1 + 1 = 2. This is the only thing that is ABSOLUTE 1+1 will always and forever be 2. ... END TRANSMISSION......................... 1+1 = 1 in a certain branch of mathematics. +1 to the first to name it :P
I'm gonna toss out Euclidian Geometry, unless you're talking about different bases. More obscurely, you might be referring to certain gauge theories.
I dunno though, I could be way off. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:1+1 = 1 in a certain branch of mathematics. +1 to the first to name it :P
Boolean Algebra? |
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION....................... What is the 2% refering to. How and when is it applied? Dont just tell me.Show me how and why. We dont have to assume. Numbers write eqations than are provable or not. They are absolute I wanna know what it is and how it works and where to apply the 2% as this weaponry skill states. As I have posted here because of lack of clarity. Other skills Calculate just fine. This one doesnt seem too. END TRANSMISSION..........................
Show me an example of other skills calculating just fine, and this one not calculating fine? I think I don't understand your question properly. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION...................
So your saying its added to the base of the gun? Increasing the gun base by 2% per lvl?
END TRANSMISSION........................ |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:2% to damage, just like it says. Applied using math, when you shoot someone. I can't show you though, because we don't have a combat log, so there is no where in the game that currently shows your points of a hit.
If you'd like to test this to collect the necessary data, you need to have a friend on the other team shoot you in a controlled fashion so you can record the delta in your shields/armor from hits and check vs their skill levels.
Ideally you can have a third person watch using a sniper scope, since scopes list Shields/Armor in actual numbers. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION................... So your saying its added to the base of the gun? Increasing the gun base by 2% per lvl? END TRANSMISSION........................
Somebody on antoher post (can't remember which one) said that you add the percentage skills together so that the 3% per level for Prof and the 2% per level for Weaponry becomes 25% when both skills are maxed out. So you would take the base damage of the weapon and add 25% to it, so that then becomes the new base damage. Then the Damage Mods would apply to this new base damage score.
Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what was explained. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 08:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION........................
SHEILD BOOST SYSTEMS ADDS 3% to dropsuit. Scout base is 40.0 if skill is at lvl 4 thats 12% .12 x 40 = 4.8 when added to base its total to 44.80. Exactly what the suit stats say. I can calculate this and prove the math. To me that skill works.
END TRANSMISSION.............................. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
I noticed that too. Same goes for the skill that increases Armor. It just doesn't seem to apply to anything else at the moment. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION.....................
Ok Hagi (for short), I can buy that this is what ive always thought. Ive even beleived I hit harder when skilling up weaponry to lvl 5 !! , yet this could be an assumtion on my part as the magic number i see appearing is exactly 10% of .10. which is .01 Coincidence that it just so happens to be the same 10% this skill, when maxed alludes to.?? HMM
END TRANSMISSION>.................... |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Explain again how you're going from 10% to 1%? |
Spec Ops Cipher
UnReaL.
15
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:1+1 = 1 in a certain branch of mathematics. +1 to the first to name it :P Boolean Algebra?
We have a winner!
Sorry OP, for borrowing your thread. ^^ |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Hagintora wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:1+1 = 1 in a certain branch of mathematics. +1 to the first to name it :P Boolean Algebra? We have a winner! Sorry OP, for borrowing your thread. ^^
I would like to thank all the little people -coughgooglecough- that help me become the man I am today!  |
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ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION..............................
HAGI....What is 10% of .10 = .01? yes? Each CPLX DMG MOD GIVES .10 yes? 2% x 5 = 10% yes? each dmg mod seems when you have 3 it adds up to 1.33. The 10% of 10% is added 3 times hence a "MAGIC NUMBER" of .01. If there is a stack penalty why does it add instead of subract if its broke I can understand this, but reverse. I just wanna find out what this skill and mods are really doing. This should explain how I got to these numbers.
BOOLEAN ALGERBRA IS THE ANSWER??? !!!!! lolz smarta alleck hahahahahaha and when following those rules I guess 1+1 = 1
Still is absolute within this set. So i gotta apply THESE RULES to calculate this skill loolz. I SEE HOW IT IS
END TRANSMISSION................................. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
You're assuming that the Damage Mods are adding together. 10%+10%+10%. But as Buster pointed out, if you multiply the Damage Mods together, as 1.1*1.1*1.1, then you get 1.331.
So it would seem that the evidence can support either theory, but I'm leaning towards the "Multiply Damage Mods" theory right now. |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
41
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION....................
AM I ASSUMING or maybe the reverse is true??? I wanna know exactly what it is. Who said its multiply? WE need clarity ! Im trying to Show & Prove.
END TRANSMISSION......................... |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2013.03.02 09:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
ImMortal SoLDieR X wrote:START TRANSMISSION.................... AM I ASSUMING or maybe the reverse is true??? I wanna know exactly what it is. Who said its multiply? WE need clarity ! Im trying to Show & Prove. Show me why I should multiply and ill do it!  END TRANSMISSION.........................
The only way (outside of CCP posting on this thread and telling exactly what's what) is to go out into the field, with some friends and collect data. Like I said, the sniper rifle lists Shields/Armor as a number count, which makes the math much easier. So have one friend stand there while you shoot him, maybe with a TacAR so you can see what a single hit can do. A third friend stands to one side with a Sniper Rifle and tells you what the numbers were before the shot and after the shot. Do this with Damage Modifiers on one suit, and no damage modifiers on another suit. If the damage without modifiers is the same as the base damage for the weapon, then your theory of skills adding a .01 bonus to damage modifiers would be correct. If the damage is NOT equal to the base damage of the weapon, then do the math and see if it equals the base damage plus the Skill Modifier. If it does, then the theory of "Multiplying Damage Modifiers" is correct.
God I love Science. I want to turn a lemon into a bomb so it can burn somebody's house down!  |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
288
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Posted - 2013.03.02 10:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Math discussion with a healthy blend of crazy talk. This forum never ceases to entertain  never stop guys. Never stop. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
304
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 11:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gotta love the start/end transmission stuff. I remember when I was 10 too, it was fun. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2948
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Posted - 2013.03.02 16:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dust 514 does not round actual numbers either, displayed ones maybe. |
Commander Tuna
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
7
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Posted - 2013.03.02 18:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Omfg you guys are not helping me understand this! |
ImMortal SoLDieR X
RestlessSpirits
42
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Posted - 2013.03.02 18:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
START TRANSMISSION......................
I can calculate every NUMBER on the right side of this Dropsuit. It really is simple ALGEBRA ( solve for X ). All the math stats are simple to figure out. Now I havent looked at the stats for vehicles this was just for Dropsuit. All the calculations solve this way.
BASE model of suit = original stat * x = the answer from the stats page of your suit (after skill has been upgraded). There are a few that befuddle me..
1. Is the one from the OP here I haven't seen anywhere where its said multiply the dmg mods x dmg mods.Then I've seen calculations yet these are for ships I've even looked on EVE websites yet for DUST 514 the dropsuit seems to act differently.
2. the repair rate for amour . This skill says 3% to Dropsuit recharge rate, yet the BASE number in each suit is 0 3% of nothing is nothing so when look in the right hand stat side the suit only receives what the mod actually does. if its 2 the number for this is just that. I think the word Rate is just interpreted differently that what we think it is. My hypothesis is that by Rate could mean interval this would explain the increase armor repair while still only usuig and showing the stats for the mod. I dont see a stat on the right for increased interval yet i know it repairs me faster or does it ?
3 The TYPE 1 scout suit starts with 100 shields the shield skill adds 5% per level my skill is level 3, by simple math should be 15%. When looked at it shows a grand total of 14% raising the shield count to 114 instead of the grand total of 115. thus the reason I'm saying it adds 14% .01 off So i looked at each suit the assault calculates correctly actually with a round down negating a mere .75. Given the simple math a total of 258, rising the base from 195 withe the same 5% multiplier @ this same level. This math Proves.
END TRANSMISSION................................................. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
366
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Posted - 2013.03.02 19:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Here's the deal. The math works the same way as EVE and I'm going to *assume* CCP will implement a system similar to the one in EVE for displaying information in the fittings window.
The individual bonuses from all applicable skills are added together and applied to base weapon damage. Mods are then compounded, sometimes with a stacking penalty.
The reason you don't see the bonus from weaponry on the fitting screen is because the numbers displayed there are only for the current dropsuit. In EVE, if you look at something on the market it will list all the base values. If you fit it to a ship, you hover your mouse over the weapon and select "Show Module Info" (or something like that) and in this screen the values have been changed to reflect your skills. You can also look at "Show Charge Info" to see any modifiers you'll get from the loaded ammo type.
Since these values will be the same for all ships (unless the ship's skill has an additional bonus to something) they are not shown on the fittings window. DUST does have this feature yet, which is why you don't see any bonus from Weaponry or Proficiency.
The numbers listed on the fittings window apply only to the current suit, so without any damage mods you have a 1.00 modifier to whatever damage you get from your skills. Notice it does not list an actual amount, only the modifier which is independent of your personal skills. Since it lists the actual amount of armor your suit has for example, this number changes depending on your personal skills.
Stacking penalties work for everything except Damage Modifiers. However, since there is now way to actually test your weapon's damage currently there is no way to know if the stacking penalty is actually broken or if the fitting screen is simply displaying it incorrectly. Remember, a couple of builds ago it always displayed a 1.00 |
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