Not to rain on your parade.

Please pay attention to the CPM0 meetings (if you're attending) most of the group is in agreement that an elected CPM is not needed at the moment for dust 514 and may detract from game development, we're not even out of beta yet.

While there is a CPM 0 in session now, they're still formulating how the whole debacle is going to play out.

Right now we're having the issue of voters and vote handling, unlike eve online we have free accounts here and CPM feels leaving the 'freebies' out is disenfranchising but in the end it may be the ugly necessity that only paying people could vote.

Other issues, to CPM or not to CPM. CCP has an elected council already, majority of the CPM is currently leaning towards a separate council to focus on our game issues and community feel. Then once seated an ambassador exchange is made between the CPM and CSM, one seat will be swapped and a CPM member will attend all CSM functions including the flight to Iceland. While the CSM ambassador sits and performs the similar functions to the CPM member and possibly fly to shanghai if that ever becomes a thing to do.

Then of course how the council is going to self govern, this is known as the white papers. So far CPM is mostly copy pasting CSM's own with some tweaks.

Next few issues and meetings the CPM is going to have is involving things like nominee process... Election Process and the sorts.

Once all wrapped up, hammered out, and refined a bit, then its going to get presented to you guys and then CCP to hopefully be the start of official frame work.

No one cares for overly self-important-know-it-all-try-hards of the dust cpm0. We have the irc and forums at moment and it seems ccp is talking to us give it up.

some of the people in cpm0 hardly play the game or are terribad at it. These are they type of people that deserve no voice in this game regardless.

also kain white papers are pointless from the outside looking in.

Right now we're having the issue of voters and vote handling, unlike eve online we have free accounts here and CPM feels leaving the 'freebies' out is disenfranchising but in the end it may be the ugly necessity that only paying people could vote.

Like you're any different

I can't help but take issue with this. In one month since open beta started, i have bought 2 merc packs and 2 starter packs. Which comes out to $60. Thats $11 short of an eve 6 month subscription, so lets say I paid for 5 months of EVE. In what world am i not entiteled to vote, beacuse dust is FTP? I am a paying customer, and therefore entitiled to a vote, i mean even if you buy $2 worth of AUR you are a paying customer. I think people don't understand that micro transaction systems make money. There are entire companies based off of micro transactions, and they are doing well. Secondly Dust is allready the majority. There are more active dust players than there are active eve players. Once CCP delivers a non-beta version those numbers will continue to increase, and eventually CCP will be making more money from Dust. So how can anyone justify not giving Dust players a vote. Especially since if we are part of the process more people will be inclined to spend money on a game, nay a universe where thier vote can effect change.

-Delta

Listen fanboi there are a few things that make us different.

-I am good at this game you are trash.
-I also have 3 accounts a play every suit/weapon/vehicle each build to TEST things. You just talk about the game.
-I am a 7 year vet in eve and have played about every part of the game (maxed out with 8 active accounts)

-The most important thing is I bring all discussions to the forums so the entrie community can be involved. I dont hide in an self-serving-elitest-try-hard irc channel.

Whats your claim to fame? Your rush to the forums to post what devs say in IRC. Other than that you are mentally challenged when it comes to dust.

TL:DR ***** please

Its a tricky subject I know, every time its brought up it gets more and more convulted every time, its one of the reasons CPM 0 exists is to discuss issues like these and work things out.

I will try to compile up a good post about the voting systems talked so far and ask all you guys on the forums to pitch your own ideas as well.

feel free (and anyone else) to join as at #dustcpm, we're going though a slight identity crisis right now :D

Here's the problem with that, i don't think eve players have any right to dictate or discuss if we get a vote. Even if they dabble in dust. They are eve players, with EVE as the top priority. My point was dust will soon way overshadow eve, we are currently the majority and soon we will be the majority of CCP's profits. This is bad for EVE players, and anyone with a half a brain would do everything in thier power to keep CCP's attention on EVE. It would be foolish for CSM to make decisions in dusts favor, therefore should have no say in dust's development. While this is extremly pessimistic, we are in New Eden, if there wasn't coruption and self intrest, we would be on seaseme street .

So you think the top 16 players of dust 514 should be the CPM?

-I kill more than I die so that mostly makes me non-scrub at least
- I test every suit/weapon/vehicle and module and feature, and scrape every map with a fine tooth comb every build. Unfortunately I do this on my main character despite knowing that its going to hurt me in the short run.
- I am 6 year vet in eve and been just about everywhere there and done just about everything as well :D
- Being the IRC speedbump is one of many things I do for this game need to look around and take notice.

Also in a very odd way, you too are a CPM 0 member Everyone here is...

This is one why I was arguing a separate council for dust 514, another topic I need to formalize and present.

The reason bad players shouldn't have a say is simple. They never believe its their own skill that determines the results. Instead they blame gear, skill bonuses, lack of sp, suits, gun, and all based on public play. It's never their fault they die.

Go back all those months at the AR is OP threads and look at the names of those people. I did and they are suck ass players. What happened with the AR Nerf? It made the Elite players better and the average ones worse. If you have elite AR skill you can adapt and over come and in reality if was the average players that realied on the "OP" AR to be better.

Also games like dust have to be balanced to the top not at the bottom.

Another thing is the game needs to be balanced to and for corp battles. My reasoning is that going foward these matter, not pve or pub stomping. I don't care if tanks are OP in pub matches (ccp needs to stop making stupid small maps and there needs to be more infantry advantaged sockets) its how are they in corp battles.

I can look at the top corps and players on leader boards (can't believe i said that) and you will see a lot of corp battle exp. More then that they have understanding of gear,tatics, and strats.

If you are an average player I'm sorry but you don't test the game at it limits like the high player does. Should average players have say in pubs/pv3 sure because winning/losing doesn't effect the universe of new eden. Dust isn't a lobby shoot long term and losing will have consequences and the game needs to be tuned that way.

I'm not a member of the cpm0 I am a member of the dust community (love me or hate me) and I dont self-segragate myself because I think I know better.

While I have my ideas this game is way more important than my ego or those of the selfappointed few.

If you have ideas bring them up there. Just look to CCP foxfour and the discussion that is occuring. Or you can go back and work on your meaningless white papers

/thread

The reason bad players shouldn't have a say is simple. They never believe its their own skill that determines the results. Instead they blame gear, skill bonuses, lack of sp, suits, gun, and all based on public play. It's never their fault they die.

Go back all those months at the AR is OP threads and look at the names of those people. I did and they are suck ass players. What happened with the AR Nerf? It made the Elite players better and the average ones worse. If you have elite AR skill you can adapt and over come and in reality if was the average players that realied on the "OP" AR to be better.

Also games like dust have to be balanced to the top not at the bottom.

Another thing is the game needs to be balanced to and for corp battles. My reasoning is that going foward these matter, not pve or pub stomping. I don't care if tanks are OP in pub matches (ccp needs to stop making stupid small maps and there needs to be more infantry advantaged sockets) its how are they in corp battles.

I can look at the top corps and players on leader boards (can't believe i said that) and you will see a lot of corp battle exp. More then that they have understanding of gear,tatics, and strats.

If you are an average player I'm sorry but you don't test the game at it limits like the high player does. Should average players have say in pubs/pv3 sure because winning/losing doesn't effect the universe of new eden. Dust isn't a lobby shoot long term and losing will have consequences and the game needs to be tuned that way.

I'm not a member of the cpm0 I am a member of the dust community (love me or hate me) and I dont self-segragate myself because I think I know better.

While I have my ideas this game is way more important than my ego or those of the selfappointed few.

If you have ideas bring them up there. Just look to CCP foxfour and the discussion that is occuring. Or you can go back and work on your meaningless white papers

The reason bad players shouldn't have a say is simple. They never believe its their own skill that determines the results. Instead they blame gear, skill bonuses, lack of sp, suits, gun, and all based on public play. It's never their fault they die.

If you have ideas bring them up there. Just look to CCP foxfour and the discussion that is occuring. Or you can go back and work on your meaningless white papers
/thread

Wow, you sir are an arrogant prick.

we will be bringing it here, in constructive TLDR posts that only people who care about the game will actually read.
There is no CPM atm, we are just part of the community, using another platform to discuss about a game we love, we aren't talking weapon mechanics or "this is op", we are talking about the politics of the game, how we can get more involved and produce a better talking point to the community, not ccp - nova said in the channel a while ago "if you want to make this idea successful, we need to get the community to trust us from the small scale." believe in the idea, an idea that is worth and that's what we are going to do. We don't want to just plop an idea what 7-8 people came up with in 2 weeks, we want the entire community to take part in shaping the idea into something meaningful we can be excited about implementing.

atm there are only 7 people talking in the channel right now, we are talking about the politics and its effects on the community and how we can ensure that everything that we do is in the communities interest, that includes yours.

I know you don't want it or believe in it, but I honestly think - regardless of player skill, if all aspects are heard - there is potential to make something work if people get involved.

all the cpm "area" is doing, is helping the community in anyway they can. may that be metagame, getting onto the cpm, refining ideas, talking about issues, voting on popular discussions, hosting tutorials, building a wiki.... It's community driven for the community - I'm calling it meta game because this is what I like to do, to me, this is part of the games politics.

But I am one of many with my own ideas and ideals.

I am many things but this doesn't change the fact that final 6 months in closed beta the biggest crys for nerf were from average players at best. That says a lot to me.

I agree with you about nerf threads. They are made by average players, without much experiance or understanding. But I am an average player, and have never made a nerf thread. I'm sure that the vast majority of average players however are not making nerf threads. Also i think nerf threads are foolish. But you should look at a game like LOL when looking at succesful balancing. while they do keep top lvl competitive play in mind, they balance to the median. Beacuse that is the largest % or thier player base. they also are now one of the most succesful FTP games ever. This promots growth, and makes the game succesful. Good players will always be good, skill can t be nerfed.

In my opinion the who purpose of CPM 0 is to pave they way to CPM 1.

CPM 1 should be an elected organization that acts a Dust 514 stakeholder representing the community.

CPM 1 should work with the CSM on Eve/Dust Interaction.

CPM 1 should represent F2P players that put sweat equity into the game, but don't necessarily put in money directly.

I will not being running for CPM 1, but I want to see it established.

So you do realize that there can't be an elected dust cpm from a psn stand point right? I have 11 psn/dust accounts myself and have no problem makeing 100s to just stuff a ballot box.

yeah you could put an sp min in but I still have all 11 of them earning passive sp so a year from now they will have mroe then enough.

sorry but i would rather stick to eve side csm and not elect players that don't know eve to have an effect on it.

That and you are a scrub (is not biased by tags)

So you do realize that there can't be an elected dust cpm from a psn stand point right? I have 11 psn/dust accounts myself and have no problem makeing 100s to just stuff a ballot box.

yeah you could put an sp min in but I still have all 11 of them earning passive sp so a year from now they will have mroe then enough.

sorry but i would rather stick to eve side csm and not elect players that don't know eve to have an effect on it.

That and you are a scrub (is not biased by tags)

Right now we're trying to form the white papers for the CPM and figure out a voting process for CPM 1.

Passive SP can be easily eliminated from the equation by subtracting the following: time since character creation date minus passive sp accrual). Time played is another bar you can use.

I want it all right now to just blow my mind! Exploration, symbiotic connection to another platform and with depth so deep you can't help but sweat from antisipaton. I want a new player of every kind to enjoy something in this game so they want to come back curious and wanting more. I want squad benefits, corp benefits, training benefits, and custom everything and I want it all right now! Find a way to feed my desire and we are done with Dust514 beta.

CPM, is the start of making this happen sooner.

who exactly is part of this again?

I have paid for passive boosters on most accounts. So bullshit that idea that I dont get a vote with those accounts because they are mostly passive accounts. How is that fair against random scrubs that don't buy an aurum yet I do.

If I pay I vote. **** all that other noise. Frankly if you dont pay to play this game your opinions and votes should mean ****. Maybe there should be a aurum purchased minimum instead of sp.

Still just selfimportant circle jerk to me

who exactly is part of this again?

I have paid for passive boosters on most accounts. So bullshit that idea that I dont get a vote with those accounts because they are mostly passive accounts. How is that fair against random scrubs that don't buy an aurum yet I do.

If I pay I vote. **** all that other noise. Frankly if you dont pay to play this game your opinions and votes should mean ****. Maybe there should be a aurum purchased minimum instead of sp.

Still just selfimportant circle jerk to me

The game developers are human they can only go so fast and so far in such a short time.

Stop self jerking a bit then.

I am also against Kain's on the SP idea, its too easy to game out and it may illegtimize what could have been a valid voter one year may not be a valid voter the next year, after all FPS gamers will migrate to and from dust 514 during breaks between expansions or when the newest 'halogen call of warfare battlezone' game comes out. But at least we agree that it will remain a disagreement.

We have the irc and forums at moment and it seems ccp is talking to us give it up.

Wow now. Self jerking is a part of all mens lives and something that should not be spoken ill of. Sorry as a jew nerd I have learned that sometimes its better to stay home, jerk it, and use the money saved to further my nerdtopia life style.

That said, I noticed you have offered an opinion in the forums regarding a proposed idea by kain regarding voting for cpm1. It wasn't so hard now was it? Matter of fact maybe you could go further and start a thread asking for the communities opinions on the matter.

I actually have no opinion on the cpm0 or anything discussed in this thread. I was just making stuff up to create a discussion. It's that easy and I think a lot of players would appreciate being involved.

Get in IRC scrub.

No. CCP already hates me for calling them out on their bullshit. Plus CCP FoxFour is my new bff in the forums.