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Shep Lando
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2013.02.26 15:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just a quick question that I would love to get actual devs feedback on. The PS3 sucks to develop for. Period. The Cell processor is a huge pain and often made PS3 development the real bottleneck in multiplatform releases.
Now with the PS4 we are seeing Sony return to a "PC" like architecture, and with CCP's wheelhouse ultimately being PC development, will that help DUST overcome its many hurdles? |
Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
179
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Posted - 2013.02.26 15:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
Beats me.
What i'd like to know is if Dust keeps going in the PS3 alongside a possible new PS4 update or if said update would do away with the PS3 version. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 15:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 15:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yagihige wrote:Beats me.
What i'd like to know is if Dust keeps going in the PS3 alongside a possible new PS4 update or if said update would do away with the PS3 version.
Dust will be on ps3 and ps4 simultaneously. While that's going on there will be no difference between the ps3 and ps4 versions. They will continue to support ps3 as long as they can, when ps3 goes the way of ps2 vs ps3 (slowly fizzled out) they will switch support to ps4 24/7. Only THEN will we see a difference. So expect support for both consoles for at leaste 2 years |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles.
Again with this... learn more about consoles.
- Game consoles use RAM more efficiently than PC's
- PC's needs more RAM to run the operating system, and any programs attach to it.
- Ram in consoles, runs about 5 times faster than your standard ram.
Go it ? |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
What IM curious about is whether or not ccp will switch engine from unreal 3 to carbon, considering ps4 will technically be able to run carbon, or would they switch to unreal 4. I expect they WILL switch engine at some point considering they did it with eve. I guess we will have to wait and see |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles. Again with this... learn more about consoles. - Game consoles use RAM more efficiently than PC's - PC's needs more RAM to run the operating system, and any programs attach to it. - Ram in consoles, runs about 5 times faster than your standard ram. Go it ?
It's been stated by both ccp and dice (among others) that they have been restricted to what they wanted to do because of the technical limitations of current gen consoles. More ram = more freedom, 8gb = future proof.
'Learn more about consoles'? Listen kid, I've been gaming since pong, so I think I've had more than enough time to 'learn about consoles' I have every console released, from NES to neo geo, from sega master system to dreamcast, so don't insult my intelligence.
GOT IT????? |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles. Again with this... learn more about consoles. - Game consoles use RAM more efficiently than PC's - PC's needs more RAM to run the operating system, and any programs attach to it. - Ram in consoles, runs about 5 times faster than your standard ram. Go it ? It's been stated by both ccp and dice (among others) that they have been restricted to what they wanted to do because of the technical limitations of current gen consoles. More ram = more freedom, 8gb = future proof. 'Learn more about consoles'? Listen kid, I've been gaming since pong, so I think I've had more than enough time to 'learn about consoles' I have almost every console released, from NES to neo geo, from sega master system to dreamcast, so don't insult my intelligence. GOT IT?????
Sorry mate, but you make it sound like the PS3 is a rubbish machine.
One word : Crysis 3
Out in PS3 and Xbox 360, why they will release the game NOW, if they think that the PS4 is going to be allot better ?
Look at the game-play videos, and you talk me how rubbish the game looks. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles. Again with this... learn more about consoles. - Game consoles use RAM more efficiently than PC's - PC's needs more RAM to run the operating system, and any programs attach to it. - Ram in consoles, runs about 5 times faster than your standard ram. Go it ? It's been stated by both ccp and dice (among others) that they have been restricted to what they wanted to do because of the technical limitations of current gen consoles. More ram = more freedom, 8gb = future proof. 'Learn more about consoles'? Listen kid, I've been gaming since pong, so I think I've had more than enough time to 'learn about consoles' I have almost every console released, from NES to neo geo, from sega master system to dreamcast, so don't insult my intelligence. GOT IT????? Sorry mate, but you make it sound like the PS3 is a rubbish machine. One word : Crysis 3Out in PS3 and Xbox 360, why they will release the game NOW, if they think that the PS4 is going to be allot better ? Look at the game-play videos, and you talk me how rubbish the game looks. Dude, just where in my posts have I said dust looks rubbish? Or ps3 is rubbish? Nowhere. Why would I own both 360 and ps3 if they were rubbish?? I suggest you read again. And yes current consoles can run crysis, at the equivalent of the lowest pc settings. Dust IS go g to be on ps3 AND ps4 simultaneously, just like bungies 'destiny', when ps3 is phased out......then they will improve the ps4 version. You obviously can not follow a simple post and understand what's being said |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
245
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:
Sorry mate, but you make it sound like the PS3 is a rubbish machine.
Skyrim and the Fallout games |
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tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 16:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
^exactly! Which brings around my previous post about ram. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:
Sorry mate, but you make it sound like the PS3 is a rubbish machine.
Skyrim and the Fallout games
Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that.......
Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Yes. Most of the technical limitations of dust and other titles is because of the 1/2 gb of ram, considering ps4 has 8gb of ram it's going to be next to limitless. The reason bf3 was so scaled down for consoles was the lack of ram on ps3 and 360. Had they have released bf3 on the next gen consoles then there would be 64 players like pc, and visually there would be next to no difference between bf3 on pc and consoles. Again with this... learn more about consoles. - Game consoles use RAM more efficiently than PC's - PC's needs more RAM to run the operating system, and any programs attach to it. - Ram in consoles, runs about 5 times faster than your standard ram. Go it ?
Lol. No.
The original article pointing out the RAM issue is correct. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:
Sorry mate, but you make it sound like the PS3 is a rubbish machine.
Skyrim and the Fallout games Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that....... Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point.
Fallout on ps3 tanked. Skyrim on ps3 had that huge issue that made the game lag beyond playability due to low ram, and skyrim on ps3 will not be getting all of the expansions because of the ram. Need I go on fanboy? |
Broxx Nexular
Occupational Hazard Vital Core Exhumers Industrial Coalition
9
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:What IM curious about is whether or not ccp will switch engine from unreal 3 to carbon, considering ps4 will technically be able to run carbon, or would they switch to unreal 4. I expect they WILL switch engine at some point considering they did it with eve. I guess we will have to wait and see
its EXTREMELY unlikely they will go to a new engine. The only way I could see that happening is if they already had all of the assets for next-gen (for a PS4 version) ready to go and only have to plug it all in and re-apply the coding. IF they switched its more likely they would use unreal 4 as it would be a very familiar process to create DUST514 with it from using unreal 3 previously.
If I had to guess i'd say their initial plans for PS4 involve simply porting the current version as much as possible and releasing it, then going back and updating assets to next-gen stuff as much as they can. They probably intend to slowly convert to just having a PS4 version (though that's granted that the PS4 will allow them to do more with the game) |
Snaps Tremor
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
42
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Your worry is coming at the game from the wrong angle. Rather than worrying about how easy it'll be to port Unreal to PS4 (very easy), worry about how the limitations of that engine are going to gimp the game on a next-gen platform.
We'll all be terribly hype about 1080p/60fps Dust for a while, but if we're still getting stuck on mountain polygons because we're all a bunch of rudimentary collision boxes with hitscan weapons, the game will rapidly start to look dated compared to proper next-gen titles that take advantage of newer, better engines that aren't based on 2005-era features. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Snaps Tremor wrote:Your worry is coming at the game from the wrong angle. Rather than worrying about how easy it'll be to port Unreal to PS4 (very easy), worry about how the limitations of that engine are going to gimp the game on a next-gen platform.
We'll all be terribly hype about 1080p/60fps Dust for a while, but if we're still getting stuck on mountain polygons because we're all a bunch of rudimentary collision boxes with hitscan weapons, the game will rapidly start to look dated compared to proper next-gen titles that take advantage of newer, better engines that aren't based on 2005-era features. The engines are continuously updated. There is no "next gen" engine coming. New games will primarily be built using the unreal, cryengine and a few others no matter what platform they're pushed out on.
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tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
Now that's what I like, the above 3 posters, it's nice to have sensible mature responses, thanks guys.
Panther alpha take note |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
245
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that....... Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point. Fallout on ps3 tanked. Skyrim on ps3 had that huge issue that made the game lag beyond playability due to low ram, and skyrim on ps3 will not be getting all of the expansions because of the ram. Need I go on fanboy?
The Issue actually existed since Fallout 3, it just didn't become obvious till the game started getting DLC. The biggest problem was that the PS3 has a very small amount of memory that gets used for the games themselves, most of it's memory gets used for graphics and running the OS.
The point is that the PS3 limits what developers can currently do because of they have to find ways to work around the PS3s system limitations. Here's more about The Skyrim/Fallout issue http://gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20121014/179348/Outofmemory_Skyrims_PS3_woes_examined.php. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Now that's what I like, the above 3 posters, it's nice to have sensible mature responses, thanks guys.
Panther alpha take note
I agree, they are. I wasn't responding to the OP, i was responding to you 1/2 ram comment.
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tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that....... Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point. Fallout on ps3 tanked. Skyrim on ps3 had that huge issue that made the game lag beyond playability due to low ram, and skyrim on ps3 will not be getting all of the expansions because of the ram. Need I go on fanboy? The Issue actually existed since Fallout 3, it just didn't become obvious till the game started getting DLC. The biggest problem was that the PS3 has a very small amount of memory that gets used for the games themselves, most of it's memory gets used for graphics and running the OS. The point is that the PS3 limits what developers can currently do because of they have to find ways to work around the PS3s system limitations. Here's more about The Skyrim/Fallout issue http://gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20121014/179348/Outofmemory_Skyrims_PS3_woes_examined.php. That's what I've been saying in my previous posts dude
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tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Now that's what I like, the above 3 posters, it's nice to have sensible mature responses, thanks guys.
Panther alpha take note I agree, they are. I wasn't responding to the OP, i was responding to you 1/2 ram comment.
My 1/2 ram comment was 100% accurate, just read other posts on this thread and there's your confirmation
Actually, ps3 is 256mb ram, 360 is 512mb. So ps3 is LESS than 1/2 gb |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
245
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that....... Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point. Fallout on ps3 tanked. Skyrim on ps3 had that huge issue that made the game lag beyond playability due to low ram, and skyrim on ps3 will not be getting all of the expansions because of the ram. Need I go on fanboy? The Issue actually existed since Fallout 3, it just didn't become obvious till the game started getting DLC. The biggest problem was that the PS3 has a very small amount of memory that gets used for the games themselves, most of it's memory gets used for graphics and running the OS. The point is that the PS3 limits what developers can currently do because of they have to find ways to work around the PS3s system limitations. Here's more about The Skyrim/Fallout issue http://gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20121014/179348/Outofmemory_Skyrims_PS3_woes_examined.php. That's what I've been saying in my previous posts dude
Most of that was directed at Panther lol |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:tribal wyvern wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Sorry i'm a bit confuse about that....... Both games are "Huge" and beautiful .... which kind of proves my point. Fallout on ps3 tanked. Skyrim on ps3 had that huge issue that made the game lag beyond playability due to low ram, and skyrim on ps3 will not be getting all of the expansions because of the ram. Need I go on fanboy? The Issue actually existed since Fallout 3, it just didn't become obvious till the game started getting DLC. The biggest problem was that the PS3 has a very small amount of memory that gets used for the games themselves, most of it's memory gets used for graphics and running the OS. The point is that the PS3 limits what developers can currently do because of they have to find ways to work around the PS3s system limitations. Here's more about The Skyrim/Fallout issue http://gamasutra.com/blogs/GlenJoyner/20121014/179348/Outofmemory_Skyrims_PS3_woes_examined.php. That's what I've been saying in my previous posts dude Most of that was directed at Panther lol Ok bro, my bad
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Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't want to spoil you little party..
But both Fallout, and Skyrim are Bethesda games...and is other similar games in the PS3 that don't have that "Specific" problems.... just saying. |
Drommy Hood
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
242
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think one great difference (and to get back to the original question) is the architecture. And it's a 'great'difference because its virtually a pc, which means companies who make great pc games and have been doing so for years have a head start. Just like ccp.
So yes I think that the ps4 will make the development of dust easier, once it's the only version. It will be quicker to write for, quicker to change and the power of the system means that they aren't coaxing the last dregs of power out of it, they can be a little bit sloppy with it because there is so much spare ram, because it can process in teraflops. It will be like the difference of when game developers had to fit stuff on floppys and then had cd's that held so much more info, they didn't have to be clever to fit it all on anymore, they could focus on other things other than size |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
245
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 17:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I don't want to spoil you little party..
But both Fallout, and Skyrim are Bethesda games...and is other similar games in the PS3 that don't have that "Specific" problems.... just saying.
If Bethesda was the problem, then explain why the 360 version doesn't have the same problems? The PS3 has issues, get over it. No one is insulting your console. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
676
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I don't want to spoil you little party..
But both Fallout, and Skyrim are Bethesda games...and is other similar games in the PS3 that don't have that "Specific" problems.... just saying.
As the dude above said, skyrim and fallout had zero of the problems on 360 that they had on ps3. Oh, bf3.......24 player count and downgraded graphics on both 360 and ps3 due to low ram.
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Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
45
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I don't want to spoil you little party..
But both Fallout, and Skyrim are Bethesda games...and is other similar games in the PS3 that don't have that "Specific" problems.... just saying. If Bethesda was the problem, then explain why the 360 version doesn't have the same problems? The PS3 has issues, get over it. No one is insulting your console.
I have both, PS3 and Xbox 360. I also have a Xbox, PS2, PS1, Sega Saturn.....etc. I enjoy all of them for different reasons.
To answer you other comment:
Final Fantasy XIII, Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto IV, The Witcher 2, Far Cry 3... to say few. They all run fine.
So maybe "it is" something wrong with the way Bethesda ported the games to the PS3. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
245
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 18:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I don't want to spoil you little party..
But both Fallout, and Skyrim are Bethesda games...and is other similar games in the PS3 that don't have that "Specific" problems.... just saying. If Bethesda was the problem, then explain why the 360 version doesn't have the same problems? The PS3 has issues, get over it. No one is insulting your console. I have both, PS3 and Xbox 360. I also have a Xbox, PS2, PS1, Sega Saturn.....etc. I enjoy all of them for different reasons. To answer you other comment: Final Fantasy XIII, Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto IV, The Witcher 2, Far Cry 3... to say few. They all run fine. So maybe "it is" something wrong with the way Bethesda ported the games to the PS3.
Have you played those games( And lol at FFXIII ) and still have their save files? Fallout starts having problems once it's save file crosses the 11 mb mark, and with all the DLC it will happen quite fast. My second biggest save file is Dark Souls at 8 thousand something KB. So tell me, have any of those games hit 11mb yet? I doubt they ever will.
And yes, it was a bad port, but there's is nothing that could have been done to prevent that. The PS3 simply can't handle that much content all at once.
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Snaps Tremor
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
43
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Posted - 2013.02.26 21:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Snaps Tremor wrote:Your worry is coming at the game from the wrong angle. Rather than worrying about how easy it'll be to port Unreal to PS4 (very easy), worry about how the limitations of that engine are going to gimp the game on a next-gen platform.
We'll all be terribly hype about 1080p/60fps Dust for a while, but if we're still getting stuck on mountain polygons because we're all a bunch of rudimentary collision boxes with hitscan weapons, the game will rapidly start to look dated compared to proper next-gen titles that take advantage of newer, better engines that aren't based on 2005-era features. The engines are continuously updated. There is no "next gen" engine coming. New games will primarily be built using the unreal, cryengine and a few others no matter what platform they're pushed out on.
You can't just 'update' core engine features like the physics model without a total and time-consuming engine overhaul. To CCP's credit, this is something they've actually done with EVE, but it's a hell of a lot easier to reboot the engine of a game where everyone is a floating point in a database over a realtime action game where cogs and springs shoot out all over the floor the minute you touch the guts of it. |
N1ck Comeau
REGULATORS OF VALOR Orion Empire
38
|
Posted - 2013.02.26 21:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
tribal wyvern wrote:Yagihige wrote:Beats me.
What i'd like to know is if Dust keeps going in the PS3 alongside a possible new PS4 update or if said update would do away with the PS3 version. Dust will be on ps3 and ps4 simultaneously. While that's going on there will be no difference between the ps3 and ps4 versions. They will continue to support ps3 as long as they can, when ps3 goes the way of ps2 vs ps3 (slowly fizzled out) they will switch support to ps4 24/7. Only THEN will we see a difference. So expect support for both consoles for at leaste 2 years I doubt thats true, they will upgrade on the ps4 but leave the ps3 the way it is, it will make players want to buy the ps4 even more if your hardcore into dust
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