I rarely say this, but i think you re completely and utterly wrong.

to prove my point, i literally just finished a skirmish on manus peak with 31/ 0, sniping of course. That means that over the course of a 20 minute game, i bought my team over 5 minutes worth of time in respawns at least, as every kill has to wait to respawn, and then he ll respawn back at a position potentially a few hundred metres from where he was shot.

Not only did i buy that time, i pissed off most of the team and killed the majority of the enemy snipers i could find, preventing them from doing the same to our team. AND in the event that we cant control the objectives, i killed over 1/5 of their team for the clone war...

I'm an average sniper.

Ive spec'ed over 1.3mil sp in snipers and i still dont get one hit kills on everyone, yet you want me to do LESS damage?
Bullet mechanics is all that is needed to sift the good snipers from the bad.

Cover fire doesnt particularly work here, people are very naive and dont always realise i just missed their face, and carry on blundering forward anyway.

Snipers are not for taking out vehicles, they are anti infantry, change class to AV.
Remote hacking? well why doesnt everyone on the field engage in remote hacking, hell we wont even have to deploy, jsut sit in the MCC with a laptop...

HAVING SAID THAT, i definitely would like to engage painter and spotter roles for snipers, if we cant shoot it, at least warn others about it, like tanks and lavs who are moving to fast to pin the driver, but this was covered in at least one other thread ive seen and i supported it then.

Thanks for reading.
Criticise as necessary.

Jathniel, it sounds like you have a very good attitude towards the role of a sniper. The proposal I have been making has been precisely along the lines of *buffing* the very kinds of things you say you do. So while your post sounds like it's a response/counter to mine, I really don't think it is. I think we are perhaps on the same pageGǪunless you think snipers are useful and balanced enough anyway, and don't need improving.

Just a few nitpicks amongst the majority agreement:


I didn't actually suggest "non-lethal pinning fire that warns that it's coming". What I said was:


Maybe it was not as obvious as I first thought, but what I had hoped was the implied message here is that if the enemy decides to brave your fire anyway, he should die. So this was not at all intended to be a non-lethal alternative. The difference with this proposal compared to what snipers can already do is that the location (not the source) of fire is more obvious (and, in the suggestion, perhaps some form of aoe).



So long as we use the word "sniper", you are of course right :) But I am suggesting that the role of "sitting in a secluded spot on the map, with great vision, and ability to do damage to enemy infantry from a long way away" should be changed from "sniper" (killer), to something more.

Really, I don't know why you disagree with me. You've gone to great lengths to suggest you already do all these non-killing roles, which I am suggesting should get buffed. But then you end with "Snipers are, and always will be, all about killing". That last comment just doesn't fit with the preceding parts of your post, most of which I agree with. Your post was about how you do so much more than just killing, and then you finish with "Snipers are [GǪ] all about killing". I agree with the first part of your post, and not this closing comment.



I'm not sure what role this statement plays in your overall argument. This is true to some extent of any player fulfilling any role in a team sport/game.

Anyway, thanks (really) for the interesting post.

Regarding the comment on snipers being useless, as I pointed out to 2100, I was being provocative and immediately clarified what I meant :) That is, I think other roles are (as a general rule) more useful than snipers.

I have no doubt that you and other snipers have helped a game at critical points with that well timed and aimed kill, and saved my hide too. But that's not really the point -- anyone can kill other players and save a friend or a point. The question is, is that killing that you are doing valuable enough that you wouldn't be more useful overall doing some other role? Eg, maybe driving another tank around, or playing a heavy, or shotgun scout to cap points.

I want your non-killing roles to be buffed, and if it turns out that on balance a similarly equipped+skilled sniper can't kill a similarly equipped+skilled infantry guy on the ground in two or three shots (or whatever we think is appropriately balanced), then damage buffed too. But I think that perhaps the way that a sniper kills needs to be looked at.



Technically, it is a contradiction. If you say "All a sniper can do is kill", and then you list other non-killing things a sniper can do (such as spotting enemies), you have contradicted yourself. The thing is, I agree with your original post talking about all the roles in addition to killing that a sniper plays. I think that those need buffing. And a sniper should certainly be able to kill.

I fear two scenarios long term in this game:
a) Snipers are too weak at killing and do nothing else -- they're nothing more than a nuisance, hearing that ping on the ground near you, and then an occasional hit that wipes out your shield before you get to coverGǪwasted slot on the team
b) Snipers are too strong at killing and do nothing else -- they are a nuisance that can kill you with impunity if you step out into the open for more than a few secondsGǪdestroying the fun of the game for the non-snipers

I want something in between this. The ability to kill another player in two or three hits or whatever is balanced, but also other useful powers when not killing that are considered very useful to the team.

CCP is a build ahead of you. This build, they said they were going to change all sniper rifles so they need to be charged.
Check the patch notes

I think snipers should be invisible and have a shield that can absorb at least one round from everything in the game without going down. So, they can hide behind the rocks until whatever is shooting at them gets bored and moves on. I think the cost of the suit is too high because sometimes they lose one. I think sniper drop suits should have two side arm slots so they can carry a pistol and a small handheld nuclear weapon that one shots all tanks and any equiptment on the field. But, to maintain balance it should have a cool down timer of at least 2 minutes so you can only use it a couple of times per round. I don't think snipers should ever show up on the radar or with line of site detection, because it's the future and their suits should have better dampening abilities. I think sniper should have two equipment slots so they can carry nano hives and drop links. That way they never have to be exposed. Since they are using futuristic rail guns, I don't think they should have any range limitations or bullet drop. I think snipers should have robotic arms that way they can sprint and ads at the same time with no sway. I think that snipers should have sensors built into their helmets that make a beeping noise that gets faster as people approach them so no one can sneak up behind them. It's not fair to let people get behind them unless you boost the armor by at least one hundred. I've also noticed that their are some points on the map that they can't reach with their 10 ft verticle. So, I was thinking that maybe they could have a special module that summons a magical unicorn that can help them get to better vantage points. Oh, and also as the unicorn flys over everyone it melts them with rainbow acid. I also think that when snipers shoot someone and it doesn't 1 hit kill them. It should at least slow them down by 80%. I would also like suggest heat seeking and armor piercing rounds. I mean why can't a mini rail gun disable a jeep or blow the treads off a tank so it can't move. I would also like to see a long range piece of hacking equiptment that can hack and take control of enemy installations from a distance. I'm not talking from the red line or anything, but something realistic like 300 yards. Oh and lastly I would like to see some sort of team barrier or at least a drop link lock. I notice that sometimes they get seen because some stupid ar guy or heavy uses their drop and gives away their position.