DUST Search - No Respect for the GEK

Aeon Amadi wrote:

I'm just going to throw it out there, I really have no respect for the GEK Assault Rifle. Honestly, it's incredibly boring seeing the kill-feed mention the GEK so often and while it might just be rumor (I refuse to use the thing because I find it to be a cliche) but the GEK having less recoil than the Duvolle seems... Odd.

Not saying it's over-powered, or needs some kind of change by any means but the fact that my corp-mates and I have recently undergone an initiative to discourage recruitment of those that "specialize" in using Assault Rifles goes to show just how much distaste I find in the weapon itself. Incidentally enough, I have absolutely no issue with any other Rifle - just the GEK.

Perhaps it's just that so little skill is involved in using it (ADS, shoot) and it does it's job so effectively and with such versatility.. Maybe it's just because it's so common. I'll never know, I just simply can't take anyone who uses it seriously. Alternatively, it could be because of the forums having such a vanguard defense of the weapon itself while criticizing other weapons (HMG, Shotgun and Laser Rifles being the popular choice) for their effectiveness.

I'm sure I can't be the only one that feels this way.

Aeon Amadi wrote:

E.) Weapon Recoil. IMO, the weapon recoil should decrease as you rise in Tiers. Damage up, recoil down. This just makes more sense as the weapon (and the player) evolves over time and becomes easier to use as you put in more skill-points and specialize in what the weapon has to offer, regardless of my views of the weapon being "unspecialized". It would encourage players to use the Duvolle a lot more and while it wouldn't technically be a nerf (though I'm sure some of you are going to have red tampons simply because I said the word) it would scale better with the rest of it's weaponry.

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Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:27:00 - [31] - Quote Starting to see a pattern develop since I went to sleep for the night and as such having taken the time to absorb all the information I'll try to respond as best I can all at once. A.) The Type-II is, in fact, a standard suit - in fact it's one with very few drawbacks when compared to other Type-II variants of the dropsuits. A Type-II Logistics, for instance, loses an equipment slot. A type-II Heavy suit loses a great deal of it's armor (which actually makes it a lot more effective due to the low amount of low-powered slots early in the game). B.) Damage mod stacking. If it is true that Damage Modules don't suffer stacking penalties than it's honestly probably the reason the AR + Damage Mod combo is so often used. I've seen amazing things come out of an Assault Rifle user's hands, right down to magic two-three shot bursts downing a player. If stacking penalties aren't applying correctly than it -IS- a game issue and not a complaint. Personally, I think that damage modules should be removed ENTIRELY in favor of a more diverse weapon customization system. C.) "Quit QQing about the Assault Rifle" - right, thereby proving my argument. I never said anything about "fixes", "tweaks" or 'nerfs" and half of the responders to this thread immediately jump to the Assault Rifle's defense. It's impossible to have discussion without civility, and it's impossible to identify problem areas without discussion. There can't be any "fixes", "tweaks" or "nerfs" if the problem hasn't been identified yet, so calm the **** down and take a step back. D.) Skill involved - To that one guy who said all guns are point and shoot; it's not necessarily the case. Laser Rifles require more skill because you have to work with the range restrictions of the weapon. Shotguns are the exact same way. The Assault Rifle might be the bread and butter but, as I've argued in the past, it might be a bit TOO versatile if it's taking away from players specializing in other things. Players will ALWAYS lean toward what works best, which is why it's important for CCP to release datagraphs and information the same way they do for Eve Online. If they don't, and we're seeing a lot of nerfs and "fixes" come from forum feedback - than it's safe to say that CCP is TOO customer oriented and are focusing almost entirely on their forum feedback rather than their actual data. Being as they can't supply data, graphs and information to us (the player base) than it's pretty safe to say that there's a lot of blindfiring going on here. E.) Weapon Recoil. IMO, the weapon recoil should decrease as you rise in Tiers. Damage up, recoil down. This just makes more sense as the weapon (and the player) evolves over time and becomes easier to use as you put in more skill-points and specialize in what the weapon has to offer, regardless of my views of the weapon being "unspecialized". It would encourage players to use the Duvolle a lot more and while it wouldn't technically be a nerf (though I'm sure some of you are going to have red tampons simply because I said the word) it would scale better with the rest of it's weaponry.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 330	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:30:00 - [32] - Quote In what game doesn't an Assault Rifle kill like it does in Dust? AR's are the basic and most common Infantry weapon in the real world and Virtual. The GEK is popular simply because it's cheap(ISK) and it's the best AR that you can unlock very early. On another note: NO RESPECT FOR MASS DRIVER USERS!!!!
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:36:00 - [33] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: In what game doesn't an Assault Rifle kill like it does in Dust? AR's are the basic and most common Infantry weapon in the real world and Virtual. The GEK is popular simply because it's cheap(ISK) and it's the best AR that you can unlock very early. On another note: NO RESPECT FOR MASS DRIVER USERS!!!! MD's take a hellova lot more skill than AR's do, so shut it
C20H25N30 Neko Inc. 3	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:37:00 - [34] - Quote Why would you remove mods? You forget this is a game based off eve I would expect endgame to have all technologies of new eden and yes new eden has damage mods. This is not a standalone game as so many tend to think it is.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:37:00 - [35] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm just going to throw it out there, I really have no respect for the GEK Assault Rifle. Honestly, it's incredibly boring seeing the kill-feed mention the GEK so often and while it might just be rumor (I refuse to use the thing because I find it to be a cliche) but the GEK having less recoil than the Duvolle seems... Odd. Not saying it's over-powered, or needs some kind of change by any means but the fact that my corp-mates and I have recently undergone an initiative to discourage recruitment of those that "specialize" in using Assault Rifles goes to show just how much distaste I find in the weapon itself. Incidentally enough, I have absolutely no issue with any other Rifle - just the GEK. Perhaps it's just that so little skill is involved in using it (ADS, shoot) and it does it's job so effectively and with such versatility.. Maybe it's just because it's so common. I'll never know, I just simply can't take anyone who uses it seriously. Alternatively, it could be because of the forums having such a vanguard defense of the weapon itself while criticizing other weapons (HMG, Shotgun and Laser Rifles being the popular choice) for their effectiveness. I'm sure I can't be the only one that feels this way. It's probably how you use ADS in various situations. Sometimes the recoil on the Exile is ok, but at others I suddenly get massive initial recoil (I blame the terrain). There are likely other factors that affect recoil but at the moment it doesn't concern me much. Aeon Amadi wrote: E.) Weapon Recoil. IMO, the weapon recoil should decrease as you rise in Tiers. Damage up, recoil down. This just makes more sense as the weapon (and the player) evolves over time and becomes easier to use as you put in more skill-points and specialize in what the weapon has to offer, regardless of my views of the weapon being "unspecialized". It would encourage players to use the Duvolle a lot more and while it wouldn't technically be a nerf (though I'm sure some of you are going to have red tampons simply because I said the word) it would scale better with the rest of it's weaponry. Yep.
IRuby Heart DIOS EX. 330	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:42:00 - [36] - Quote gbghg wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: In what game doesn't an Assault Rifle kill like it does in Dust? AR's are the basic and most common Infantry weapon in the real world and Virtual. The GEK is popular simply because it's cheap(ISK) and it's the best AR that you can unlock very early. On another note: NO RESPECT FOR MASS DRIVER USERS!!!! MD's take a hellova lot more skill than AR's do, so shut it BS
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:52:00 - [37] - Quote C20H25N30 wrote: Why would you remove mods? You forget this is a game based off eve I would expect endgame to have all technologies of new eden and yes new eden has damage mods. This is not a standalone game as so many tend to think it is. Eve Online doesn't have weapon customization. The only thing you can really "customize" is what ammunition you select for what purpose and even that often comes with a hefty reload timer (unless you're using Lasers). The modules themselves are inherently the weapon customization in Eve Online. There's no barrel extensions, no tracking speed increases or anything of the sort. Obviously, there's none of that in Dust 514 currently but they have mentioned that they do intend to put a system like that in - when they do, Damage Modifiers should have less of a direct effect on the weapon. That and because it really doesn't make jack of sense when you think about it... a Dropsuit module affecting the weapon..? I mean, in Eve Online the damage modifiers are attached to the ship - but so are the turrets >_>;
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:54:00 - [38] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: gbghg wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: In what game doesn't an Assault Rifle kill like it does in Dust? AR's are the basic and most common Infantry weapon in the real world and Virtual. The GEK is popular simply because it's cheap(ISK) and it's the best AR that you can unlock very early. On another note: NO RESPECT FOR MASS DRIVER USERS!!!! MD's take a hellova lot more skill than AR's do, so shut it BS You can say BS all you want but it's the truth. You can't aim directly at the target and magic a stream of rounds downwind to kill them. You have to account for arch - terrain as well as if you are higher or lower it will affect the arch of the weapon. It doesn't do -that- much damage either, so it takes multiple rounds which gives the player plenty of time to adjust and fire back. To top it all off, there's no way to actually -AIM- the damned thing; even when using the sights it's difficult and still requires a high degree of instinct and/or intellectual usage of the weapon.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 379	Posted - 2013.02.20 17:56:00 - [39] - Quote IRuby Heart wrote: gbghg wrote: IRuby Heart wrote: In what game doesn't an Assault Rifle kill like it does in Dust? AR's are the basic and most common Infantry weapon in the real world and Virtual. The GEK is popular simply because it's cheap(ISK) and it's the best AR that you can unlock very early. On another note: NO RESPECT FOR MASS DRIVER USERS!!!! MD's take a hellova lot more skill than AR's do, so shut it BS Do you have to lead your target and adjust for round drop? Do you have to aim near a target to guarantee some damage or risk missing to score your maximum damage?
Cpt Murd0ck Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 95	Posted - 2013.02.20 18:01:00 - [40] - Quote I'll never understand why all the hate for snipers doing what they are made to do which is snipe ppl from a distance. While I don't personally run a sniper alt. I would much rather they stay in the hills with a greater view of the battlefield where they can actually be effective rather than some idiot who runs around quick scoping mercs at close range. The problem is you dont see the work they do. A good sniper should sit on a hill/roof with a good view of an objective and deny the enemy that area.

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 18:08:00 - [41] - Quote Cpt Murd0ck wrote: I'll never understand why all the hate for snipers doing what they are made to do which is snipe ppl from a distance. While I don't personally run a sniper alt. I would much rather they stay in the hills with a greater view of the battlefield where they can actually be effective rather than some idiot who runs around quick scoping mercs at close range. The problem is you dont see the work they do. A good sniper should sit on a hill/roof with a good view of an objective and deny the enemy that area. First of all, off topic. Second of all, I agree. Third (and most important) of all, NO! A good sniper does NOT sit on a hill/roof as that silhouettes him! A GOOD sniper should sit at the back of a room or enclosed area with a good shot on his particular area, eliminating ALL outside vectors of fire and reducing it solely to what's in front of him and/or what's in the room with him!
YourDeadAgain76 Red Star. 133	Posted - 2013.02.20 18:14:00 - [42] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: I tested out the GEK, and found it had much more recoil than the Exile, so using the Exile exclusively. Besides, the mudflation of AR damages it's better use the CPU/PG to just get more tank and damage mods. Wrong....The higher your skills the less recoil, more damage/ammo/range, less cpu,pg to use. If i have weaponry lvl 5, Assualt lvl 5 and profieciency lvl 5. higher sharpshooter, capacity, reload etc and use a Duvolle or Gek and someone else is using an exile or tier 1 assault with same or less skill points in them. Its almost a garantee straight up 1 on 1 fight, see each other at same time and start shooting at same time, the dude with the exile goes down first. Gek or Duvolle are way smoother when shooting, the exile recoils way to much.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.20 19:29:00 - [43] - Quote YourDeadAgain76 wrote: Rasatsu wrote: I tested out the GEK, and found it had much more recoil than the Exile, so using the Exile exclusively. Besides, the mudflation of AR damages it's better use the CPU/PG to just get more tank and damage mods. Wrong....The higher your skills the less recoil, more damage/ammo/range, less cpu,pg to use. If i have weaponry lvl 5, Assualt lvl 5 and profieciency lvl 5. higher sharpshooter, capacity, reload etc and use a Duvolle or Gek and someone else is using an exile or tier 1 assault with same or less skill points in them. Its almost a garantee straight up 1 on 1 fight, see each other at same time and start shooting at same time, the dude with the exile goes down first. Gek or Duvolle are way smoother when shooting, the exile recoils way to much. The higher your skills yes but the weapon may have different recoil itself. -15% recoil on a weapon with 'x' recoil is not the same as -15% recoil on a weapon with 'y' recoil.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 4	Posted - 2013.02.20 19:55:00 - [44] - Quote -nevermind-
G Torq ALTA B2O 88	Posted - 2013.02.20 21:18:00 - [45] - Quote YourDeadAgain76 wrote: Gek or Duvolle are way smoother when shooting, the exile recoils way to much. Interesting, thank you - Guess I'll have to try them out. The Exile doesn't "recoil" too badly with a couple of points in AR, and when burst-firing, from my experience though.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 130	Posted - 2013.02.20 21:38:00 - [46] - Quote YourDeadAgain76 wrote: Rasatsu wrote: I tested out the GEK, and found it had much more recoil than the Exile, so using the Exile exclusively. Besides, the mudflation of AR damages it's better use the CPU/PG to just get more tank and damage mods. Wrong....The higher your skills the less recoil, more damage/ammo/range, less cpu,pg to use. If i have weaponry lvl 5, Assualt lvl 5 and profieciency lvl 5. higher sharpshooter, capacity, reload etc and use a Duvolle or Gek and someone else is using an exile or tier 1 assault with same or less skill points in them. Its almost a garantee straight up 1 on 1 fight, see each other at same time and start shooting at same time, the dude with the exile goes down first. Gek or Duvolle are way smoother when shooting, the exile recoils way to much. Nah your wrong duvolle has the most kick other than tacs and bursts
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 57	Posted - 2013.02.20 21:43:00 - [47] - Quote Perhaps if they just change the recoil between basic and proto? I guess anybody will be happy
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2013.02.20 22:00:00 - [48] - Quote What's your point, OP? Of course most players are going to use an AR. This is not a new complaint, but if everyone wants to use the cliche weapon all the time then so be it. Are you against all advanced gear then? If you want everyone using basic only you're missing what the game is all about. Are you just against the GEK, but Duvolle and basic AR are fine? Then that's just stupid...Yes the GEK has less recoil than the Duvolle if you don't burst fire it but the basic AR has less recoil than the GEK. The main difference is bullet spread and optimal range. I'm really not seeing what you're getting at. Although if you hate AR users and are only recruiting players that specialize in something else then good for you. Diversity is the key to this game.
Vin Vicious Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.02.20 23:28:00 - [49] - Quote is this thread serious? have you ever played competitive FPS's before? AR users are nearly at the bottom of the toetum pole, a good HMG,shotgun, MD user wreck AR players.
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 57	Posted - 2013.02.20 23:29:00 - [50] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: is this thread serious? have you ever played competitive FPS's before? AR users are nearly at the bottom of the toetum pole, a good HMG,shotgun, MD user wreck AR players. Not really sorry

Vin Vicious Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.02.20 23:42:00 - [51] - Quote Morathi III wrote: Vin Vicious wrote: is this thread serious? have you ever played competitive FPS's before? AR users are nearly at the bottom of the toetum pole, a good HMG,shotgun, MD user wreck AR players. Not really sorry "this guy keeps killing me with a GEK!" "it MUST be the gun, i cant be this terrible." "CCP nerf please." nerf the GEK, do it, ill switch to another gun i prefer and then youll be complaining about that one, the vicious cycle continues. bad players secretly complaining about good players through game mechanics. i'd like to know what weapon your using, respond.
Morathi III Rebelles A Quebec 57	Posted - 2013.02.20 23:46:00 - [52] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: Morathi III wrote: Vin Vicious wrote: is this thread serious? have you ever played competitive FPS's before? AR users are nearly at the bottom of the toetum pole, a good HMG,shotgun, MD user wreck AR players. Not really sorry "this guy keeps killing me with a GEK!" "it MUST be the gun, i cant be this terrible." "CCP nerf please." nerf the GEK, do it, ill switch to another gun i prefer and then youll be complaining about that one, the vicious cycle continues. bad players secretly complaining about good players through game mechanics. i'd like to know what weapon your using, respond. Shotgun i havesharpshooter prof 3 and prof 1 in shotgun
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.23 00:08:00 - [53] - Quote YourDeadAgain76 wrote: Wrong....The higher your skills the less recoil I think assault rifle operation actually increases kick and spread, it says "bonus to kick and spread"( or something like that ) that sounds like an increase and not a decrease. So skilling into ARs actually makes them worse...
Rasputin La'Gar Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 28	Posted - 2013.02.23 00:49:00 - [54] - Quote Quote: I really have no respect for the GEK Assault Rifle While you use a shotgun in a scout dropsuit and a mass driver I almost have no respect for anyone who doesn't use an assault, because everything else literally is EZ mode


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