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Drake435
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
2
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just very curious. There doesn't seem to be any benefit in bothering to make a decent LAV compared to HAV's. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Drake435 wrote:Just very curious. There doesn't seem to be any benefit in bothering to make a decent LAV compared to HAV's.
If you're a heavy you'll be getting LAV soon as you're comfy with your build. Having an LAV that can survive direct fire makes the murder taxi all the more painful for the other side. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
77
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Drake435 wrote:Just very curious. There doesn't seem to be any benefit in bothering to make a decent LAV compared to HAV's. If you're a heavy you'll be getting LAV soon as you're comfy with your build. Having an LAV that can survive direct fire makes the murder taxi all the more painful for the other side.
Sota if you'd stop rolling solo id hava a sweet saga for you to roll around in.  |
slap26
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
462
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you spec'ed tanks then you can fit a decent LAV right now, but most tank guys drop tanks |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
22
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've seen a few people roll around with them, they are very tough. It makes me wish CCP would get rid of the (free) starter LAV so that hopefully more people would skill into them.
One-shotting rolling trashcans gets boring after a while. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
2
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Posted - 2013.02.19 00:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:I've seen a few people roll around with them, they are very tough. It makes me wish CCP would get rid of the (free) starter LAV so that hopefully more people would skill into them.
One-shotting rolling trashcans gets boring after a while.
Very much the reason why I'm questioning myself before I invest any SP into LAV's. 2 AV grenades make them go boom.
But I also need a gunner or making a powerful LAV would be pointless. |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
22
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drake435 wrote:Protocake JR wrote:I've seen a few people roll around with them, they are very tough. It makes me wish CCP would get rid of the (free) starter LAV so that hopefully more people would skill into them.
One-shotting rolling trashcans gets boring after a while. Very much the reason why I'm questioning myself before I invest any SP into LAV's. 2 AV grenades make them go boom. But I also need a gunner or making a powerful LAV would be pointless.
If you can find a few good gunners to squad up with then that's all good. That being said, I don't think I've ever seen someone get a kill using a the LAV turret. Most LAV related kills are because of impacts. Skilling up the LAV will just make for a safer transport for you and others so that guys like me don't blow you up with one single packed AV grenade. |
Drake435
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
2
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Drake435 wrote:Protocake JR wrote:I've seen a few people roll around with them, they are very tough. It makes me wish CCP would get rid of the (free) starter LAV so that hopefully more people would skill into them.
One-shotting rolling trashcans gets boring after a while. Very much the reason why I'm questioning myself before I invest any SP into LAV's. 2 AV grenades make them go boom. But I also need a gunner or making a powerful LAV would be pointless. If you can find a few good gunners to squad up with then that's all good. That being said, I don't think I've ever seen someone get a kill using a the LAV turret. Most LAV related kills are because of impacts. Skilling up the LAV will just make for a safer transport for you and others so that guys like me don't blow you up with one single packed AV grenade.
That's also a good point. Every time I go in the gunner seat, its really, really hard to kill anything with the blaster turret while its moving. I've only gotten maybe 3 or 4 kills off of missile turrets and thats about it. |
James Thraxton
The Exemplars
73
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
LAV's, or more relevantly Logi LAV's, are a cool 1.25m sp to train, but are one of the most underrated vehicles in the game. . . used in corp battles, these vehicles can be more deadly than tanks, sporting over 4-5k ehp and remote reppers, paired with upgraded guns and a mobile cru, their comparatively cheap isk cost makes them a force multiplier due their versatility. . .
tried, tested, and true. . .and they can splat redberries |
ratamaq doc
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
23
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yes.
Although I will warn, it won't **** you off near as much loosing a 200k LAV to enemy fire as it will being stollen by a blueberry.
I've sent my share of emails to plenty of jackass players whom just jump into your ride and take off. Responses are usually " Welcome to New Eden!"
An but the thought of revenge and the satisfaction of getting it even makes that worth it. Each is now a contact, and each is red on my team or off.
But to answer your question as to "is it worth it" Hell yes. I lost 1 LAV in 4 games that I called my whips yesterday.
Be afraid of enemy AI turrets. They don't miss |
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Lavirac JR
DUST University
Ivy League
129
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
ratamaq doc wrote:Yes.
Although I will warn, it won't **** you off near as much loosing a 200k LAV to enemy fire as it will being stollen by a blueberry.
I can attest to this with my 241K isk Guristas Saga fit... The perfect little minitank being wasted upon a useless blueberry.
As far as this thread goes, yes I am thinking about specializing in them... Thinking of going a Limbus with a shield transporter. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2013.02.19 01:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes I have-
The hard part is, you need to find another person or 2 who knows what they're doing (and has the correct skill setup) to go with you, or you might as well just make a cheap-o "mobile turret" setup like I did. |
OwnD07
BetaMax.
6
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
I spec'd into LAVs. It's fun running it solo, but way better with a squad gunner.
...Not so much when blueberries decide to hop in and drive me straight into the nearest ditch. 
Still making a profit though, so I guess I'm doing something right. |
Ion Crush
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
32
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
I came across a good LAV yesterday. I got 2 AV grenades on it and it bolted with all it's armor left, but shields gone. Got me thinking about them more. It also had a good gun with a decent gunner. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1904
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
I wasted a bunch of SP training into LAVs, the problem is that a well fit LAV is still pretty pricey, and you're basically guaranteed to lose it unless you never get out of the driver seat, and even then. It's way too easy for random people to steal your LAV. If I could blitz up to an objective, hop out and cap it, without having to worry about idiot randoms driving my LAV into a forge gun, I would love them.
As it stands, LAVs are a money pit, even more so than Dropships, if you can believe that  |
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
53
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Posted - 2013.02.19 03:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Unless you have a gurista saga, the starter LAV is basically half the HP of it, and any tech one purchasable one. Not including extra slots....
So they could be, millita free one is junk that can be one shoted by even millita and free AV.
Tanks definarly are better solo mobiles being you can drive and have a large gun. also they can transport just as many. They are slower and cost more.
In general people will play differently in pub match and corp match. have had corpmates heal my tank with a LAV, The investment and cooperation to make LAVs and Dropships shine will never happen with a team of stangers (blueberrys)
So a tank is generally better, you invest more per chassis, but less likely to lose it, and can be a top scorer without others being side gunners (even with side gunners, you get the big gun, so you get more). It requires almost no cooperation and communication with team, just roll around the map killing people, avoiding av. |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
34
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Posted - 2013.02.19 09:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
LAV's suffer from the same thing dropships do - the maps are so small that most places can be easily traversed on foot. Of course you still see people in dropships because flying is cool. Also with the way this game is set up you can't be a part time driver, once you call in your expensive vehicle you stick with it the rest of the round unless you like throwing away money.
Once we get bigger maps we'll probably see an increase is more specialized. LAV's. Quickly shuttling frontline soldiers from objective to objective will be critical and the ability to heal their armor while transporting them will be invaluable. Not to mention the potential of putting a CRU on board. |
Daddrobit
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
277
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Posted - 2013.02.19 10:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
Myself and another corpmate specced rather heavily into them. He went shield, (Saga) while I went armor, (Methana).
Is it fun? Yes
Can you affect the course of a battle? Sometimes.
Is it costly? Definitely.
My personal best as a gunner with my corpie is 31-0 before I froze out. It's fairly easy to get high teen to mid twenty kills in an average game.
However, if you're doing a god job at killing people, they /will/ bring out AV against you and it can turn very ugly very quickly if you don't have enough 'tank' on your LAV. And these LAVs can very easily out-cost the payout of your average game with a single loss
In my opinion, the Methana is far better than the Saga when it comes to survivability. An armor repper with an armor hardener is much harder to defeat than a shield tank as in addition to the armor plates, you will still have room left over to fit a shield buffer which is an absolute life saver for many situations.
My main pet peeve with the Methana is the open-ness of the driver's seat, you are much more easily shot out in a Methana than you are in a Saga as you can very literally see and shoot the entire side of your merc with the completely open door, while the Saga has cover for much of your body.
And I can't tell you too many things more annoying than being shot out of your LAV to have it get hacked and then have to face it yourself or blow it up.
When it comes to raw damage output however, look for the Saga. For vehicles, damage modifiers are fitted to the high slots, this means losing vital tanking abilities for your Methana which is absolutely unacceptable and /will/ get you killed. Although since Sagas are completely shield based, you can pop on damage mods without hindering your survivability too extremely. With damage mods on a blaster turret with turret skills, you can very easily melt even heavies in just a few shots.
As for it's most effective role, I've found that a blitzkrieg-like strategy works best.
Call in a your LAV and get a gunner and a passenger. Quickly fill up and choose an objective to hit and gun for it. When you approach the objective, have your gunner let loose on any resistance. Upon reaching it, have the passenger jump out and quickly finish off anyone who tried to hide while still receiving covering fire from the LAV. When everyone at the objective is dead or have legged it, have the passenger hack the point, remember to always be watching the spawn points so no one spawns in on your guy while it's being hacked. Once it's hacked, since no enemies can spawn there anyways, have your passenger hop back in and be on your way to the next objective while your team takes the point.
During the assault, always make sure to keep your LAV moving in and around the area while maintaining a close proximity to your passenger so you can support him when needed, a stationary LAV, is a dead LAV.
My .02 ISK. |
JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
131
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 10:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have. Kinda. I have a BPO Gurista Saga (Gold one) and have begun upgrading it. 2200+/- HP, 41.51% shield recharge rate, and a level 2 blaster turret. It's not special by no means but for the price you cannot beat it.
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Indy Strizer
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
52
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Posted - 2013.02.19 12:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
This question is complicated to me, if you're expecting to kill people by the dozens, turn the tide, then move on... Just get a tank.
Yes, I spec into LAV's, I like to think myself as a pioneer somewhat and a specialist, even though I am not. How am I not- even though I am?
Well, it's only practical to skill into the standard LAV's at the moment. Would you say you are spec'd into Assault when you just run around with a standard assault rifle? No... It is the same for the LAV, you probably wouldn't want to spec any further than standard because the Logistics LAV isn't practical because last I checked, it's integrated logistics module isn't working, plus it has reduced damage output on it's turrets... The additional hitpoints on it's shield are nice though, but I think it might have lower armor HP anyways.
Some might say an LAV's advantage is it's movement speed and so can be used as a scout vehicle, but the small maps pretty much negate that, most objectives are within sight or walking distance rather than LAV or Dropship distance, not to mention the fact that scanners don't work... You are pretty much boxed in with a team that revels in the thought of destroying your expensive LAV with free/cheap AV or their tanks.
Some describe it as an anti-infantry vehicle, but the small turret's general ineffectiveness and AV grenades have scratched that out too...
It can work as a logistics vehicle, definitely, but it is a thankless task in these random pub matches and you have to give up your survivability to do this, not to mention potential WP... Oh and the tank you are repping can kill you with ridiculous collision damage if it backs up into you.
It can also work as a quick transport for a small shock trooper squad of 3, but you have to worry about it blowing up after you park it to cap objectives though unfortunately... Or else you have to waste ISK and call in another.
You can definitely kill tanks with LAV's, but you need to be methodical in your approach with it, you need a gunner brave enough to attempt such a thing, and then... you have to make sure he is a good gunner.
Then there's the fact that it takes TWO people to make an LAV work offensively without having to resort to running people over, just to man the turret, that's one extra infantry person off the field... You can do more on foot and I do indeed accomplish more on foot. Even though I'm into LAV's, I run my BPO-only SVER logistics dropsuit about 95% of the time I play this game. I don't really use an LAV practically, I just drive one to change the pace of the game now...
People say I'm a good driver, but anybody can drive well enough to get from point A to B, being a good driver is inconsequential in a corp match or any battle, as fun as the sight may be to some others as I drive through narrow spaces, it is truly useless to the team and corp battles. It doesn't matter to homing AV weapons either.
Speaking of AV, there is also the fact that Forge Guns can take you out very easily... They can just stand on mountains and do massive amounts of damage. Not to mention, you can't out-drive Swarms like you could in older builds, which was fun... I loved used L2 to watch swarms chase me and lead them into walls- a spectacular effect! It was great to force players to switch to forges and proximity explosives to take me out, now they are just complacent with spamming swarms. Oh and don't forget installations- rail gun installations in particular.
My most expensive LAV fit is one I like to call "The Skunk", it has two damage mods and a prototype blaster turret and some supplemental shield modules for survivability... Cost? About 380k ISK, I've yet to test this fit, but it's pretty much enough ISK for a militia tank which is far more deadly and has more survivability, not to mention, you'll probably end up with two extra gunners in it, in your LAV, you probably won't even end up with one. The reason I call it the skunk is because it stinks, but it's highly offensive to others.
Oh and don't forget free LAV's, people will crash them into yours, sure, you can survive, but it will be devastating.
Is it fun to spec into LAV? Nope. Not in my opinion, not yet, anyways, but with bigger maps, electronic warfare modules, an increase in small turret effectiveness, and no more free LAV's? Yes...
That's hoping for too much though. |
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JL3Eleven
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
131
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 12:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Best LAV driver in Dust period
*places a milli on the table. |
Sgt Kirk
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
350
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 12:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yeah I run an Armor LAV that can take a beating.
They are useful if you have the smarts
Right now it's best to have Shield LAV because of all the AV weapons that can destroy you in a second on ground but I like the amount of resistances you can stack on an armor LAV . |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 12:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
i personally run have atm the saga i started running lavs i also run tanks.....there is a point to LAVS they are actually quiet awesome at higher lvls the high end caldari charybdis for example is extremely nasty its possible to deck a lav out where it will take more than av grenades to destroy it (wayy more) the high end lavs heal you and your tea if you a medic running 500-700 hp with a 2 heavy team this is extremly formidable weather there is a nic turrent on the lav or not 2 heavyies and a asault based medic in a high end healing lav nastyness |
Mortedeamor
Wraith Shadow Guards
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 12:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:i personally run have atm the saga i started running lavs i also run tanks.....there is a point to LAVS they are actually quiet awesome at higher lvls the high end caldari charybdis for example is extremely nasty its possible to deck a lav out where it will take more than av grenades to destroy it (wayy more) the high end lavs heal you and your tea if you a medic running 500-700 hp with a 2 heavy team this is extremly formidable weather there is a nic turrent on the lav or not 2 heavyies and a asault based medic in a high end healing lav nastyness
for example my old chary had 6 k hp split 4k 2k shield armor ....that is better than some tanks |
Indianna Pwns
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
9
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Posted - 2013.02.19 13:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
I wont consider spending a dime on LAV's until the collision damage and driving mechanics are improved.
Right now it seems like driving over a pebble sends the damn thing into a spin  |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
James Thraxton wrote:LAV's, or more relevantly Logi LAV's, are a cool 1.25m sp to train, but are one of the most underrated vehicles in the game. . . used in corp battles, these vehicles can be more deadly than tanks, sporting over 4-5k ehp and remote reppers, paired with upgraded guns and a mobile cru, their comparatively cheap isk cost makes them a force multiplier due their versatility. . .
tried, tested, and true. . .and they can splat redberries
This is very true, and I've been lucky enough to gun in a LAV with proto small blaster turrets and a good driver. I had lvl 1 turret skills and that turret absolutely mowed down infantry.
The thing was a point taking machine. |
Mortal Maximus
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
8
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm starting to invest in to my LAV's... i should be running decent vehicles pretty soon  |
Fiddlestaxp
Sil3nt Assassins
30
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Why would I spec into LAVs this early(SP wise) when I can load my guriastas saga with shields and speed without specing LAV?
Shields are the most important thing on an LAV. You NEED to be able to take at least 2 AV gernades or your jeep is useless.
Same thing applies for speed. AV gernades can miss you if you are going fast enough and they dont aim high with their AV nade.
AV gernades are your #1 counter and you should outfit your LAV with that in mind. This doesn't take many skill points beyond what you should already be doing for your soldiering. |
Terram Nenokal
BetaMax.
115
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
OwnD07 wrote:I spec'd into LAVs. It's fun running it solo, but way better with a squad gunner. ...Not so much when blueberries decide to hop in and drive me straight into the nearest ditch. Still making a profit though, so I guess I'm doing something right.
I was hoping you would post in this thread. Vouching that a well fit LAV can be surprisingly effective.  
Although I agree with the points that Indy Strizer brought up. I miss LAVs outrunning swarms the most. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
431
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 17:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dude Methanas are fun. So fun I'm considering investing into a Saga as well. For some reason armor tanking is currently underpowered but once Shield Signatures happen, a Shield tanker will be easily tracked and locked onto with swarms 
But they are fun. You can even just take your Impact and add modules to it to make it "safer". |
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