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1, 2, 3, 4... [yet another "please balance" thread]

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xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:05:00 - [1] - Quote Tanks. Tanks everywhere. Since yesterday every skirmish pub match you join is full of tanks; The real problem is when you have against you 4 well fitted tanks. Av grenades, tier 2 swarm launchers, Flux Grenades seems to be absolutely inefficient against a couple "good" gunnlogis even if your whole 4 men squad tries to take them down, and when you have 4 tanks in a pub match...well, people just prefer to stay in the MCC and the match dies. I don't really want tanks to be nerfed because as a former "tanker" I know how many SPs and ISKs you have to put on it, but seriously if you want to take down 2 of the typical 6000+ shield + shield hardeners gunnlogi (or even worse Sagaris) you should cooperate with your whole 16 men squad; And that's the real problem: when your whole squad is there trying to take down those tanks, the enemy infantry is easily capping all the letters and you just lose the game. Forge Guns are good against shields, but using 4 men just to take down two guy is like "ok fck the kdr, fck this game, fck the null cannons, fck the WPs, I just want to set these tanks on fire" So I'd like to suggest some solutions: Nerf is not always the solution. But a slight HP nerf on shield tanks and a serious PG/CPU nerf would be ok. add the driver only and the gunner only seat Buff AV against shields, or at least put in something really effective against them ( not LOLflux) WP reward should be proportional at how difficult it is to take it down: what's the point in destroying it for just 150 WP??? Of course these are just some suggestions, of course i might be wrong. What do you guys think?
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:10:00 - [2] - Quote I disagree with nerfing the tanks in any way. If a 4-man squad all switching to AV can't take down a tank you're doing it wrong. Though, I do agree with you on the need of an anti-shield AV weapon (besides flux nades). I also agree with you that we need WP for doing partial damage back. I still have no idea why they took that out.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1041	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:17:00 - [3] - Quote tanks as things are currently are not out of balance. In any squad we can kill most tankers. The only bad think with thanks is that if you have a few goods ones on the other team and you get in a bad spawn loop you will just get farmed. This is more of maps/spawning issues. Tanks on skirmish are not a bother
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2048	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:18:00 - [4] - Quote Nerf them again! Do it CCP, do it.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:19:00 - [5] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: If a 4-man squad all switching to AV can't take down a tank you're doing it wrong. They actually can take down a tank, they even could take down two of them at the same time; it's just that 4 AV don't do the proper damage to infantry and they "should" switch again to Assault, heavy etc. I said "should" because many times the smart "tanker" destroy every supply depot. And even if the supply depot is not destroyed it just make an entire squad to follow a tank trying to destroy in; how much does it take? 4- 5 minutes? Still too much imho
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:22:00 - [6] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: If a 4-man squad all switching to AV can't take down a tank you're doing it wrong. They actually can take down a tank, they even could take down two of them at the same time; it's just that 4 AV don't do the proper damage to infantry and they "should" switch again to Assault, heavy etc. I said "should" because many times the smart "tanker" destroy every supply depot. And even if the supply depot is not destroyed it just make an entire squad to follow a tank trying to destroy in; how much does it take? 4- 5 minutes? Still too much imho A squad of say two heavies with Forge Guns (and a sidearm) plus two assaults/logis/scouts with ARs and AV grenades is actually a great AV AND AI setup. Also 4-5 minutes for taking out one tank? I sure hope not.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:26:00 - [7] - Quote Just ignore the tanks until you earn an OB. 100% efficacy for me.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:27:00 - [8] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: If a 4-man squad all switching to AV can't take down a tank you're doing it wrong. They actually can take down a tank, they even could take down two of them at the same time; it's just that 4 AV don't do the proper damage to infantry and they "should" switch again to Assault, heavy etc. I said "should" because many times the smart "tanker" destroy every supply depot. And even if the supply depot is not destroyed it just make an entire squad to follow a tank trying to destroy in; how much does it take? 4- 5 minutes? Still too much imho A squad of say two heavies with Forge Guns (and a sidearm) plus two assaults/logis/scouts with ARs and AV grenades is actually a great AV AND AI setup. Also 4-5 minutes for taking out one tank? I sure hope not. You should have played the matches I played mate ;) just an example: yesterday in a match i was fighting alone against 1 Sagaris, 1 Gunnlogi, 1 Madrugar and one poor Soma (par condicio, i think)
Talruum Tezztarozza Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 74	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:29:00 - [9] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: when you have 4 tanks in a pub match...well, people just prefer to stay in the MCC and the match dies. The real problem lies here. It don't need to be tank. It can be heavy/GEK/Sniper or even militia weapons. When one team streamroll the other, most people just give up and stay behind redline. No amount of nerf/buff/rebalance any particular weapon/suit/map/game mode will fix this. The only possible fix would be better Match Making but I doubt we will have it anytime soon. Another solution is Time. As the time pass all newberries will mature and become more experience. We can hope for something better then.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:29:00 - [10] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Just ignore the tanks until you earn an OB. 100% efficacy for me. OB doesn't work on your tank, why should them work on others :S It's no use imho unless you are facing a low fitted standard or a militia

Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:31:00 - [11] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Just ignore the tanks until you earn an OB. 100% efficacy for me. OB doesn't work on your tank, why should them work on others :S It's no use imho unless you are facing a low fitted standard or a militia Smart armor tankers with dual active hardeners, heavy rep and plated are the only ones I've seen personally survive.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 177	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:32:00 - [12] - Quote Are vehicle limits separate or not? I know there's one, i've been unable to call in vehicles because of that in a game already but it would make sense if these limits were separated. If so, i'd say that a limit of 2 tanks per team at each time would be fine by me. I've seen more than that so i know if such a limit exists it's higher but for the maps and team sizes we have now, 2 would be appropriate. EDIT: Btw, separating the servers themselves by what level of gear you can use in them would be useful as well.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 175	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:32:00 - [13] - Quote So you want to nerf tanks, which are already glass cannons, even more becasue you can't figure out how to coordinate with your team to kill one. You were a "tanker", you've been watching tanks get nerfed to oblivion, and you actually think that tanks are still OP? To kill a well fitted Sagaris you most certainly do not need 16 players. Driver only and Gunner only will only make you die more. Except for scalable AV rewards, pretty much everything that can be wrong is wrong with your post.
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 233	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:36:00 - [14] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Just ignore the tanks until you earn an OB. 100% efficacy for me. OB doesn't work on your tank, why should them work on others :S It's no use imho unless you are facing a low fitted standard or a militia I call BS on this statement as we all know OB's can EASILY kill tanks. Just yesterday I watched Annie Oakley of STB call in one to destroy Noc's tank that had full life, same match I called in my own OB and killed enemy tank.
The Real Drazar Mercs Inc. 10	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:44:00 - [15] - Quote Tanks are not that scary when your packing a proto forge around.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:49:00 - [16] - Quote I am excited for the plasma cannon that is supposed to do better dmg to shields than to armor.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 177	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:53:00 - [17] - Quote The Real Drazar wrote: Tanks are not that scary when your packing a proto forge around. Then the issue is with lack of compartmentalization with the matchmaking system. Maybe it's time for battles to have difficulty layers or levels and adjust who gets drafted against who based on that too. Maybe even have it as an option. Skirmish lvl1 would allow only up to militia gear, lvl2 to Standard and so on.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:56:00 - [18] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: To kill a well fitted Sagaris you most certainly do not need 16 players. lol umad? have you ever faced one? and btw you don't have 16 good AVin pub matches. Never. You don't either have 2 good AV in a pub squad.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 17:57:00 - [19] - Quote Yagihige wrote: The Real Drazar wrote: Tanks are not that scary when your packing a proto forge around. Then the issue is with lack of compartmentalization with the matchmaking system. Maybe it's time for battles to have difficulty layers or levels and adjust who gets drafted against who based on that too. Maybe even have it as an option. Skirmish lvl1 would allow only up to militia gear, lvl2 to Standard and so on. This ^^
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 175	Posted - 2013.02.14 18:26:00 - [20] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: To kill a well fitted Sagaris you most certainly do not need 16 players. lol umad? have you ever faced one? and btw you don't have 16 good AVin pub matches. Never. You don't either have 2 good AV in a pub squad. Yeah, Im mad. I've killed a Sagaris with a 4 man squad spamming AV nades & militia swarms. Your problem isnt that your facing a Sagaris, or that tank shields need a nerf and AV shield need a buff, but that you are not organized or effiecient. I'm betting a couple Sicas would have messed you up just as bad.

Val'herik Dorn CrimeWave Syndicate 264	Posted - 2013.02.14 18:38:00 - [21] - Quote Tanks will always be bad ass machines of death. Working as intended what needs to be implemented are the rest of the freaking weapons designed to tackle and counter swarms work on armor forge guns when used effectively work on everytuing but require extremely good aim or a heavy to run up on a tank. Once we get the plasma launcher aka shield nomnomnom and whater av the minnies bring probably giant balls of insta rust launcher more options will be able and really its getting to the point that closed testers should have a av fit to at least adv levels. I mean the other day I soloed a standard shield tank with flux nades and my MD... you can do it just don't zerg a tank. When we have the x counters y weapons in game things will be vastly different but right now we have less the a quater of what ee will at most likely "release" The lack of diversity we have right now hampers effective strategies. In eve you generally have specialist ships in a fleet designed to fill certain roles right now we have 4 suits with different levels of pg/cpu slots and base health being the inly real difference. With more stuff comes more possibilities. If you think tanks are bad now wait till we get minnie havs (think slightly stronger lav with a larger hmg on it) The amarrian tank will be a giant amror plated rolling **** with massive kittening lasers... Adapt or die coming SOON (TM)
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2013.02.14 18:56:00 - [22] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: To kill a well fitted Sagaris you most certainly do not need 16 players. lol umad? have you ever faced one? and btw you don't have 16 good AVin pub matches. Never. You don't either have 2 good AV in a pub squad. Yeah, Im mad. I've killed a Sagaris with a 4 man squad spamming AV nades & militia swarms. LOL, any experienced guy here recognize it as it is: a lie. Unless you were facing a **** Sagaris. I was talking about good fitted ones. Quote:** I'm betting a couple Sicas would have messed you up just as bad. I'm betting you don't know me. So just don't talk about something you don't know.
Shadow Archeus Wraith Shadow Guards 38	Posted - 2013.02.14 21:41:00 - [23] - Quote Either high tier tanks need a small nerf or av needs a small buff.....when the whole enemy team is POUNDING your tank and you are taking NO damage that's op....it is unbalanced ATM
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2013.02.14 21:47:00 - [24] - Quote Knock Knock guys Plasma Launder is a hybrid go figure. P.S. Excited for some Gallentean Rails will tear some sh*t up with those beauties
Sev Alcatraz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 185	Posted - 2013.02.14 21:54:00 - [25] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: Just ignore the tanks until you earn an OB. 100% efficacy for me. OB doesn't work on your tank, why should them work on others :S It's no use imho unless you are facing a low fitted standard or a militia Smart armor tankers with dual active hardeners, heavy rep and plated are the only ones I've seen personally survive. If I hit the hardener and the shield boost on my 6700 shield gunlogi I can tank off an oh like nothing
Yotta Guns Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 7	Posted - 2013.02.16 00:51:00 - [26] - Quote as a tanker i only sometimes manage to get a decent amount of kills... offen times i find myself being bombarded with swarm/forge or a even 1 teir 2 av weapon is usually enough to kill my gunnlogi... these tanks on their own aren't so bad in terms of k/d (unless youre using missles they just don't do anything at all anymore. their splash radius and damage is less than a freakin' teir 1 grande lol), but they are certainly not cost effective. without cheaper chassis/modules only eve players will be able to afford these things for very long.
undeadsoldier90 UnReaL. 114	Posted - 2013.02.16 01:02:00 - [27] - Quote 90% of the posts in here are from imperfects.... mainly due to the fact that one of the only reasons they are good is because of tanks. I find this interesting, and also have to say that CCP has swung the nerf hammer pretty hard at tanks already. As much as I would like to see noc and zitro exit their iron hover round scooters and go back to running OP assault I can't agree with this.
Vance Alken Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 94	Posted - 2013.02.16 02:35:00 - [28] - Quote CCP badly needs to produce a new HTFU video targeting the rampant dust nerf whine.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.02.16 02:42:00 - [29] - Quote They really aren't that bad IMO- AV measures just need to be stepped up. However, I've always agreed that the driver and main gunner seats should be separate.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2013.02.16 16:13:00 - [30] - Quote undeadsoldier90 wrote: 90% of the posts in here are from imperfects.... mainly due to the fact that one of the only reasons they are good is because of tanks. I find this interesting, and also have to say that CCP has swung the nerf hammer pretty hard at tanks already. As much as I would like to see noc and zitro exit their iron hover round scooters and go back to running OP assault I can't agree with this. I would really like to know how 8 (now 9) posts from imperfects equals 90% of all posts on this topic. I find it interesting....do you just hate the imperfects or are you that bad at percentages? Just curious.



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