DUST Search - the reason why the Ar has such short range.

Drommy Hood wrote:

Moejoe Omnipotent wrote:

Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance".

Blasters use the same ammo as rail guns in new Eden, but both work differently. First i guess we should talk about the rounds. the rounds have a composition, steal, lead, thorium, plutonium to name a few. The rail gun fires the whole slug, this the only limiting factor is the range of the shot. Blasters work differently though, they super heat the slug material into a plasma, then spit this out, the damage is not necissarially the impact, it's the meltyness. It's limiting faster though is not how far it can toss it, but how long it's hot enough to damage armour and shields for.

If anyone would like to elaborate or even to correct me feel free, it's been donkeys years since I've read the lore and since my eve account is inactive I can't check to make sure I'm correct

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:50:00 - [1] - Quote It's a blaster rifle. Blasters have short range. The Gauss rifle is a hand held, rapid firing rail gun. Rail guns have a **** load of range. / logic.
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:54:00 - [2] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: It's a blaster rifle. Blasters have short range. The Gauss rifle is a hand held, rapid firing rail gun. Rail guns have a **** load of range. / logic. Ok, was there a big uproar about this?
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:55:00 - [3] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: It's a blaster rifle. Blasters have short range. The Gauss rifle is a hand held, rapid firing rail gun. Rail guns have a **** load of range. / logic. Coilguns are distinct from railguns, both also use massive amounts of power and wear out very quickly on top of their gigantic recoil. Excellent essay on their differences http://www.reeza.com/sinster/essays/gauss.html Knowing is half the battle.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:55:00 - [4] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: It's a blaster rifle. Blasters have short range. The Gauss rifle is a hand held, rapid firing rail gun. Rail guns have a **** load of range. / logic. Ok, was there a big uproar about this? There was one a while back.. somewhere. but I forget. So meh.
DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 85	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:56:00 - [5] - Quote Uh... I'm pretty comfy with it. Shiny, even.
Moejoe Omnipotent Imperfects Negative-Feedback 241	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:57:00 - [6] - Quote Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance".
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 91	Posted - 2013.02.10 04:59:00 - [7] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: like making bullets disappear in mid-air This drives me nuts, at least shotguns don't have a tighter spread when you ADS like in COD, they don't right?
NightEagle11 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 17	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:00:00 - [8] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Nah bro obv doesnt have Sharpshooter 5 lol GET YOUR SKILLS UP YO
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:09:00 - [9] - Quote NightEagle11 wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Nah bro obv doesnt have Sharpshooter 5 lol GET YOUR SKILLS UP YO Sharp shooter doesn't make your shots travel further, they just make them stronger at their maximum range.
Warchild Zek IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 28	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:34:00 - [10] - Quote Big miku wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: like making bullets disappear in mid-air This drives me nuts, at least shotguns don't have a tighter spread when you ADS like in COD, they don't right? Not from my testing. I alternated shooting the wall for awhile and the pattern looked identical.

crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:52:00 - [11] - Quote Big miku wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: like making bullets disappear in mid-air This drives me nuts, at least shotguns don't have a tighter spread when you ADS like in COD, they don't right? They in fact do have higher range at least remember kids it's a damage falloff after opitmal range, they don't dissapear, they fizzle out
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 05:59:00 - [12] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: NightEagle11 wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Nah bro obv doesnt have Sharpshooter 5 lol GET YOUR SKILLS UP YO Sharp shooter doesn't make your shots travel further, they just make them stronger at their maximum range. Incorrect. sharpshooter and sharpshooter proficiency extend your weapon range. there are forge gunners who can easily outrange me. I just hit a.crapton harder than they do because I have focused on damage.
Vance Alken Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 94	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:26:00 - [13] - Quote The AR we all know and spam is a hybrid weapon, tl;dr is its plasma state metal in a can, when that plasma state metal cools it becomes a can with some exotic metal encased within. Cans with some dead weight in them don't really hurt whatever batshit insane alloys our suits have, much less the shielding.
Mr Zitro Imperfects Negative-Feedback 417	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:28:00 - [14] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". I wish I was smart enough to write this
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.10 08:46:00 - [15] - Quote Mr Zitro wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". I wish I was smart enough to write this Be glad you're not, it's not that smart. Nor is it creative. It's a thinly disguised statement of "I'm angry because the game doesn't work the way it should in my worldview." should we have disappearing bullets? No I don't believe so. it's less than an optimal solution. I think at the range increments the damage should reduce the hits you take. that would be more reasonable as recoil and such will make longshots hard enough to nail anyway. hey look, a constructive post that doesn't accuse CCP of being lazy, or incompetent! Nor does it denigrate the skills, rationality or dissenting view, which Moejoe follows the pattern of with alarming regularity. i daresay that I hear less aggravated QQ from the entirety of the forums than I do from about 5-7 Imperfects. it's an annoying trend I assure you, seeing the same names active that could actually be contributing something to making the team game better raging about how it's unfair that the weapons are balance a way they disapprove of, the mechanics don't work the way they say they should instead of just adapting and making it work. By and large I would hope for more from people who have been here since before i ever got access to closed beta than doing nothing more than rage, cry for nerfs and excuse themselves from having to defend their statements with logic. Lost valid points lost amidst the attitude problem. Not all of you do this, but it's mostly about 5-7 of you that pretty much follow this pattern, which is why people want to smash your players. Has nothing to do with the skill you have, it's purely the attitude. People can accept the skill. People are much less likely to be civil when they know nothing they say is right, unless it is in lockstep with the presented position. So shall we try again? I doubt Moejoe's stuff will change, but you're not moejoe, and i encourage you to not follow that pattern as an example to follow, Zitro. You seem to put more thought into your comments even if they are not worded quite as prettily.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.02.10 09:32:00 - [16] - Quote The reason we don't use plasma weapons(they were looked into a few times then research dropped) is the the plasma disperses and cools rapidly with range, so while damage may be higher the plasma would "vanish" before it arced to ground. Bullet drop would also be north, not down, since plasma is magnetic with little mass, it would move toward magnetic pole more then it would be pulled down by gravity. So, the ar behavior is realistic accempt for the projectiles don't curve north when fired. I think they should not add this bit of realism, image how many people would go "what the kitten" when there bullets kept curving north. I look forward to minmatar rifle, it is an opportunity for realistic bullet physics. Bullet damage falloff and arc with range more like a modern ar, balanced by higher recoil/travel time/bullet drop causing fewer hits then hitscan plasma ar.
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 90	Posted - 2013.02.10 09:45:00 - [17] - Quote I think the AR has a relatively distant range imo. But i have some SP in Sharpshooter though.
Drommy Hood Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:19:00 - [18] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Blasters use the same ammo as rail guns in new Eden, but both work differently. First i guess we should talk about the rounds. the rounds have a composition, steal, lead, thorium, plutonium to name a few. Each has a different range through its composition, the more volitile the substance the easier it breaks up/transfers heat to its surroundings (im not saying its fact, its new eden fact) and I hope to see different ammo types in the future, assault rifles with shotgun range and double the damage, and hmg's with tungsten rounds peppering snipers for low damage suppression fire from 200m's. now the weapons, The rail gun fires the whole slug, this the only limiting factor is the range of the shot, by either friction slowing it down, or friction destroying the slug (this actually makes more sense in dust than in eve in the frictionless vacume of space, just like ship top speed. BUT DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THAT!!) Blasters work differently though, they super heat the slug material into a plasma, then spit this out, the damage is not necissarially the impact, it's the meltyness. It's limiting faster though is not how far it can toss it, but how long it's hot enough to damage armour and shields for. If anyone would like to elaborate or even to correct me feel free, it's been donkeys years since I've read the lore and since my eve account is inactive I can't check to make sure I'm correct On the topic of AR range, I think it's fine, I was testing dropships yesterday and so using the standard front line milita setup so deaths didn't cost me anything but the ship. Upon being shot down near the end of the match, I continued on foot, for the first time using an AR since the build before e3. My god. It's easy. I was kicking ass. In the space of seconds I had 7 kills. I also forgot how agile the assault suit is. It makes me wonder why I spec'd into scout suit before the last wipe. All those extra slots and CPU/pg. EDITED: more info on ammo as well as some thoughts on AR's
Don Von Hulio UnReaL. 90	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:27:00 - [19] - Quote Drommy Hood wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Blasters use the same ammo as rail guns in new Eden, but both work differently. First i guess we should talk about the rounds. the rounds have a composition, steal, lead, thorium, plutonium to name a few. The rail gun fires the whole slug, this the only limiting factor is the range of the shot. Blasters work differently though, they super heat the slug material into a plasma, then spit this out, the damage is not necissarially the impact, it's the meltyness. It's limiting faster though is not how far it can toss it, but how long it's hot enough to damage armour and shields for. If anyone would like to elaborate or even to correct me feel free, it's been donkeys years since I've read the lore and since my eve account is inactive I can't check to make sure I'm correct Sounds correct to me. Like how a shaped charged is used in an RPG. There is a copper cone inside its plastic shell that has a shaped charge backing it. When it stikes a surface, the energy from the shaped charge super heats the copper and the cone shape helps direct the stream of super heated copper which in turn lets it pierce thick layers of steel. But if it detonated too far away from whatever the initial target is, it wont do much of anything because it wont be hot enough or enough force backing it. This is kind of a loose comparison to how plasma is used in DUST to what exists irl.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:51:00 - [20] - Quote I actually have pretty decent range with my Gek, sharpshooter FTW.

Musta Tornius BetaMax. 265	Posted - 2013.02.10 12:23:00 - [21] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: NightEagle11 wrote: Moejoe Omnipotent wrote: Not even close. It's because CCP is too lazy/doesn't know how to create real weapon balance without using cheap tactics that are detrimental to the gameplay experience, like making bullets disappear in mid-air, making it impossible to, for example, hit snipers in the name of "balance". Nah bro obv doesnt have Sharpshooter 5 lol GET YOUR SKILLS UP YO Sharp shooter doesn't make your shots travel further, they just make them stronger at their maximum range. Sorry Zekain but you are wrong, sharpshooter directly affects optimal and max ranges.
S Park Finner BetaMax. 89	Posted - 2013.02.10 14:24:00 - [22] - Quote I suspect the reason ARs have the range they do is related to game play. It may well be an effort to drive gun play to encounters in the 20-50 meter range. If the primary weapon is most effective at that range then it opens up possibilities for manoeuvre and countering CQC players before they get to you. I don't think it has much to do with lore or the logic of the ammunition of the weapon. Those things grow out of the decisions about game play.


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