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JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
i KNOW it's possable to do this, and balancing it out take thought and it can be easyer said then done.
that being said, Here's how i see boarding would work,
You can only be boarded in Low sec/Null Sec or just Null Sec.
You would need a ship called a Millita Cruiser (or something simular in name), this ship is basicly a freight that can spawn Mercs for boarding. No weapons, just mercs. any Cruiser type could NOT be boarded for the simple reason it would be OPed to other ships in this class or under.
When you board you choose your spacific objective (capture or steal cargo). depending on objective depends on Price of buying mercs to board. more you offer to pay, the better the mercs you have to board. also, Stealing cargo is always cheaper and easyer than capturing the ship itself. Buying Clone Revival Units will cost in the millions and takes money to restock your clone count. Also sence you are paying for the mercs, depending on the skill lvl AND if they complete the main Objective you can end up payin up to 200k-2M PER MERC.
Only A squad or 2 squads may board a ship at a time. this can be based on how many Millita Cruiser are attempting to board you, or something EvE player based (skill, equipment, ect)
.
If the ship warped out of range of the Cruiser the match ends early or you AUTOMATICLY have 0 clone count. i think having a 0 clone count because the ship warped would be a good penilty. also, if the Cruiser is destroied the clone count will automaticly reach 0. blowing up the Boarded ship via attacking it or because it selfdestructed means no one gets paid sept the mercs.
you get FREE Boarding Defence, whether bot or Merc, and you get better mercs/bots for paying better insurance. this gives you best insentive to obtain higher Insurance. Not only that but there are defencese on the ship that the Capcleer can trigger to impede the progress of the mercs this can change the path or give addtional objectives to figure out. Also, they get a WAY Higher clone count than the Boarders or unlimited if they are using Bots.
Boarders only get 7-10 mins to acheave their objectives on battleships and capitals. battlecruisers are and expection, they get 11-15 mins to acheave their objectives.
there is high risk/high reward now for using mercs. Now being a pirate is fun and challanging.
any opinions?
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R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm just thinking about what this would mean from the Eve side.
There are now ships roaming around and once they get close to you and put a boarding party on your ship, you have to just wait around and see if it gets captured? Even if you break tackle and warp out, or destroy the militia cruiser, this won't necessarily mean your ship is safe as the mercs are still on board, just not getting new clones.
The fact that the battle on board is PvE means that after a month or two there will be "mission guides" to tell you exactly how to defeat the NPCs, so capture will be almost inevitable.
The idea of the Eve capsuleer controlling defences sounds intriguing in a "Dungeon Keeper" kind of way.
Overall though, I'd be very surprised if the Eve player community let this sort of thing happen, as there is absolutely nothing in it for them. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
People don't like to be killed by things they can't defend against. EVE players being helpless as their ship is destroyed without anything they can do to stop it wouldn't be a thing which would go over well.
The bottom line with boarding is that it's the concept people like. EVE player involvement isn't necessary to boarding being a cool thing that Dust players might like to do. So having boarding take place on NPC ships, or NPC space stations, would be just fine in place of there being EVE ships being attacked and destroyed/captured from within. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:I'm just thinking about what this would mean from the Eve side.
There are now ships roaming around and once they get close to you and put a boarding party on your ship, you have to just wait around and see if it gets captured? Even if you break tackle and warp out, or destroy the militia cruiser, this won't necessarily mean your ship is safe as the mercs are still on board, just not getting new clones.
The fact that the battle on board is PvE means that after a month or two there will be "mission guides" to tell you exactly how to defeat the NPCs, so capture will be almost inevitable.
The idea of the Eve capsuleer controlling defences sounds intriguing in a "Dungeon Keeper" kind of way.
Overall though, I'd be very surprised if the Eve player community let this sort of thing happen, as there is absolutely nothing in it for them.
\ it isn't just PVE it can turn into PVP on the ship. so if you decide to go for the slightly more expencive REAL MERC insurance. The insurance companies provide instant Merc Defence free of charge. Also, PvE dosn't mean you KNOW EVERYTHING, it just means your fighting NPC's. you can't just beat them by Looking up a Walkthrough on a FPS sence they all can KILL YOU like an player.
also, eventualy, like real pirates, you'll know the layout of simular ships. so if you keep stealing from a certain Gallente battleship and only a certain Gallente battle ships you'll know where everything is. that being said, each different faction has their own versions of the ship class....and different choices. this will mean different maps. you will STILL have to force your way through a slew of highly skilled and Well armed bots/mercs.
remember, killing a or warping from a Millita Cruiser will greatly improve your odds. sence it only takes 4 or 8 kills. this forces players to be defencive around the Cruiser sence it can't defend itself.
sence this happens in Low (0.4)/null sec or just Null sec you don't have to worry about boarding. Space Pirates are common in those area's anyway.
Fivetimes Infinity wrote: People don't like to be killed by things they can't defend against. EVE players being helpless as their ship is destroyed without anything they can do to stop it wouldn't be a thing which would go over well.
The bottom line with boarding is that it's the concept people like. EVE player involvement isn't necessary to boarding being a cool thing that Dust players might like to do. So having boarding take place on NPC ships, or NPC space stations, would be just fine in place of there being EVE ships being attacked and destroyed/captured from within.
You can get ambushed by Warp Scramalers by a bunch of frigates and if you don't have a targating computer on that Battleship+ you're basicly helpless. You're most likely lose that ship (and ISK) anyway while in that Net (and before you argue YES frigate's properly geared up can take Battlecruisers) why not buy time while help arives or for a chance to escape. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 12:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
While trying to frame my questions about this idea I realised I was actually forming my own ideas instead. I'll post that as a separate thread and then continue discussion here, using the other post as a reference. |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
So I've posted my thoughts on ship capture here.
The PvE concerns are still valid, even if there is a PvP alternative.
On the PvP side you need to consider the mechanics of getting the defending team into the battle (I've suggested a lobby system in my thread).
In fact, regardless of PvE/PvP you need a lobby of some sort for the attackers, or you'll have a load of Dust mercs sitting around on their behinds for ages just waiting for the Eve pilot to find them a battle. New Eden isn't full of juicy defenceless targets just waiting for pirates to attack them. |
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alright,
a) Learn to spell. Holy crap, that was tough to read. You know modern browsers will offer suggestions on your typos, right? You don't lose points for using that.
b) From an economic perspective, this would be bad news bears. New Eden's economy works because things get destroyed. There are already serious inflation problems because PvEers aren't losing ships. If PvP becomes profitable, the economy fails.
c) There are three ways to defend a ship. One is by having a team of mercs standing by ready to jump in and defend if you get boarded. That's not likely to happen, because it involves 16 people sitting at their console for a couple hours for the off-chance they might get to fight. The second is by having it be a pub battle option. Now we have an organized team going up against pubbies. The attackers will win approximately 100% of the time. The third option is PvE. No matter how you arrange it, people will have figured out the defense system within a few months, and then the attackers will win approximately 100% of the time. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
JohnDS Wolf wrote:You can get ambushed by Warp Scramalers by a bunch of frigates and if you don't have a targating computer on that Battleship+ you're basicly helpless. You're most likely lose that ship (and ISK) anyway while in that Net (and before you argue YES frigate's properly geared up can take Battlecruisers) why not buy time while help arives or for a chance to escape.
Except that in your example, you're dying because you're being tackled, and because your ship can't accurately target the frigates doing so, and is being overwhelmed by a prepared force. You, in EVE, can defeat gate camps. If you stumble into them like a dummy, you're in for a rough patch, but if you come prepared with your own gang, then it's an actual fight, rather than a slaughter.
And that's the difference. There's nothing in EVE that you as a player can't get a ship to defeat, or can't get a ship and some friends to defeat. But people boarding you? It's totally out of your hands. Once you're boarded, it's over.
Now, that said, I guess it'd be interesting if EVE players were able to switch to a sort of "internal defence" game mode, where they take the role comparable to the upcoming Commander feature in Dust. That is, what if EVE players had a repertoire of drones, of automated defences, and other functions to kill boarders with?
Even then, it's probably more trouble than it's worth, as I doubt EVE players would want to be distracted with such things anyway, especially when there's nothing in it for them aside from avoiding the loss of their ship. But that's something that makes more sense to me than simply equipping defence modules, etc. Players shouldn't lose their ship in EVE because some Dust people beat some AI stuff. |
mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
72
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Posted - 2013.02.08 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can't help but like all of these ideas!
I'm sure someone has mentioned something like this, but i'd love to see a setup where as an eve pilot, you could choose to carry mercs on board your ship for hire. It could be based on ship size as well as cost. But the point is that you could choose the squad or team you were hiring. OR it could be free as part of a corp employed security force.
And what I'd love to do with that is use it to explore sleeper structures. It would be all about salvage, analyzing for loot, and hacking for valuable data. You'd fight sleeper drone forces to get it.
You'd have the double whammy of risk for the eve pilot having to scan down and find a target, defeat all the rices, avoid pirates  , and board a target. Then the dust mercs would be in a boarding area waiting to breech. They'd infiltrate, have to defeat the sleeper security drones, explore and get the loot, and safely return to the ship before all the on board clones were used.
And clones would be like ammo. You have a finite amount you can refill, and then that would be it. Once the last merc clone died you'd be done until you could resupply. As an eve pilot I'd play both sides of it.. after boarding I'd warp my ship out of harm's way and cloak... then take control of my dust mec and help my squad. The paydays would almost be sweet as seeing the inside of a sleeper structure :D Like an old massive library to analyze with towering arched rooms! I could go on.
One aspect of this that would be utterly awesome would be to see the inside of each ship and walk around. Limited customization of the interior would be sweet! Think sacrificing cargo space to have a larger clone bay for example. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2013.02.08 18:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
NPC ships? yes. Player ships? **** NO! |
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Mad Rambo
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2013.02.08 18:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197411 |
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