DUST Search - Request - Gear Level Restricted Public Matches

Oxskull Duncarino wrote:

Irish Syn wrote:

Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about.

And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield.

Come off it. What is it with the militia hate. I've said this on another thread where the OP there was saying this as well as other stuff, but I'll do it again.

What's wrong with militia gear? We're less than a month into a game that has an extremely long planned life, and you're mouthing off because people are using militia gear still. Try taking a look at the bigger picture!

The ability to use more advanced gear gives a slight edge, but it doesn't automatically mean you should win against a militia gear user. What really decides the winner is the actual players skill, and to be honest, some luck

Some of a merc's battlefield ability comes from where SP has been spent as well as what gear is being used. How do you know where the player using the militia gear has spent their SP. They could have already maxed out their weapon operation and be into proficiency. Throw in a few levels in sharpshooter, good fps gaming skills, and they could rock militia gear, tearing alot of players apart.

It has been said already up above, it's up to you as to what gear and how much to spend within your present ability to try to give an edge, but you have to have some skill to match that expenditure.

Edit: The dropship and militia swarm launcher issue I can see being irritating but they counter the militia dropship. The maps unfortunately mostly don't suit dropships due to being on the small size, but this is soon to be changed.

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Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.06 15:54:00 - [1] - Quote Was thinking about how most games have a system in place for public matches which put low ranks together and high ranks together to even the playing field and lead to more fun matches. However, since there are no ranks in Dust you can't really do something like this, but what about a gear restricted public matches. For example, I'm in favor of two major categories: Ambush Militia/Skirmish Militia - Only militia gear allowed. This is what people can queue up to get a taste of the various gear. There is also a lower amount of ISK and SP earned through this variant. Ambush Mercenary/Skirmish Mercenary - This would be the normal stuff we already have but no militia gear allowed. As you can see, the gist of my suggestion is to remove militia gear from the main public matches. I have nothing against lower tiered gear killing higher tier gear and I understand that there is a financial risk involved. That is great and it should be like that! However what I do not like is that every trooper straight off the bat can get the majority of the weapon types. vehicle types, equipment types, and modules types without investing a single skill point (and that these militia gear are very comparable to the level 1 gear that you have to use SP on). If you insist on no gear restrictions than there should at least be a big difference between militia gear and level 1 gear, with the same small differences every upgrade following.
Nightbird Aeon Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 86	Posted - 2013.02.06 15:59:00 - [2] - Quote Been playing WOW, eh? There is supposed to be some advanced matchmaking built into Dust, so that players with similar skills are grouped into the same pub matches. That being said, I just went 12-and-4 on a 500k SP noob alt, rocking a militia logi suit and with my only weapon being an SMG... so, trust me, gear isn't everything.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:15:00 - [3] - Quote Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about. And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 175	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:26:00 - [4] - Quote Quite simply I dont like this idea. Expensive gear is supposed to give you an advantage, but nowhere has is ever been claimed that this stuff should be immune to, or loads more powerful than, militia variants. Its always frusterating to see your expensive fits destroyed by the cheap or free stuff but thats how war works. Sophisticated, expensive technology is destroyed every day of the week by cheap, home-made solutions. If we segregate the battles based on meta level I cant see how this would benefit New Eden. Whats the point of having mercenaries when there is a ceiling to the amount of money and power you can put in to acheiving your intended victory? Tired of losing expensive gear? Learn not to lose it as often.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:31:00 - [5] - Quote All I'm saying is there needs to be a way to stop the spam of militia gear. Say I deployed a dropship, everyone on the other team could swap to their free anti-armor militia gear suit and force me to hide behind mountains. Quite frankly I never liked the concept of militia gear, but at the same time understand why they added it so players could test things out before they really spec into it. Why not make it even simpler? Just two tiers, one with only militia gear and one without it. So one is your testing grounds type mode and the other is the one where you actually have to use skill points if you want a swarm launcher or tank or anything else.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:33:00 - [6] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about. And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield. why should that matter? tired of being killed in your higher end suits by free stuff? you go into public matches with the expensive crap, why should the game cater to your wims by having a limit on what you bring into a match? skill level might be understandable but saying you can't use militia gear at all is kind of nonsense, no one is forcing you to waste isk you are doing that all on your own.
Coleus Rattus Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:39:00 - [7] - Quote I am generally not a fan of "matchmaking", as I have yet to experience a matchmaking system that isn't broken. And I think that the gear is balancing itself, really, as it's basically the old "risk versus reward" question. To gain a gameplay advantage, you risk your expensive gear. Also, EVE is all about player freedom, so I don't think it would fit the universe if Dust would introduce restrictions.
Deranged Disaster Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 65	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:41:00 - [8] - Quote I believe that if this happens, there will be no point to go higher on gear. The only reason you get gear is so that you can get the upper hand on lower geared people and of course, be more useful on the battlefield. That is what New Eden is all about, higher skill points and higher isk > lower tier gear, unless of course you play smart.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.06 16:45:00 - [9] - Quote Alright well it seems I was shot down. The whole gist of my point is that the concept of using weapons and suits you are not skilled for doesn't make much sense and should be limited to new players only, but I guess not. As a secondary reason for suggesting this, I still think milita gear is way too close in stats to the real thing. There's really no reason to use expensive gear in public matches, they are pretty much all reserved to corp battles but some of us don't do those frequently. Just my opinion though.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.02.06 17:28:00 - [10] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about. And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield. Come off it. What is it with the militia hate. I've said this on another thread where the OP there was saying this as well as other stuff, but I'll do it again. What's wrong with militia gear? We're less than a month into a game that has an extremely long planned life, and you're mouthing off because people are using militia gear still. Try taking a look at the bigger picture! The ability to use more advanced gear gives a slight edge, but it doesn't automatically mean you should win against a militia gear user. What really decides the winner is the actual players skill, and to be honest, some luck Some of a merc's battlefield ability comes from where SP has been spent as well as what gear is being used. How do you know where the player using the militia gear has spent their SP. They could have already maxed out their weapon operation and be into proficiency. Throw in a few levels in sharpshooter, good fps gaming skills, and they could rock militia gear, tearing alot of players apart. It has been said already up above, it's up to you as to what gear and how much to spend within your present ability to try to give an edge, but you have to have some skill to match that expenditure. Edit: The dropship and militia swarm launcher issue I can see being irritating but they counter the militia dropship. The maps unfortunately mostly don't suit dropships due to being on the small size, but this is soon to be changed.

Lt Sprinquello Moordzaken en Co. 16	Posted - 2013.02.06 18:06:00 - [11] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about. And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield. I couldnt agree more with the reply above and I wanted to add something in the list. Im getting to a point in this game where I can buy more expensive fittings. If I train a little bit more my fittings will be over 100k fully fitted. Now I make around 200k ISK every match so that means I can die two times and play even. Sort of. No death or one death I make profit. There are times when I **** up a game and die even more times in a match. That means I can get bankrupt and I will be needing those militia gear to even get close to what Im used to play with. It would be a shame if I could only play in militia gear games and not making much money. Seems like this is not a good idea. Just adapt to this new FPS and learn how stay alive.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.06 18:48:00 - [12] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Irish Syn wrote: Nope, never played WOW in my life. Just a suggestion I was thinking about. And you just made my point, that you can rock a full militia gear fitting and still do well in public matches. It shouldn't be that way. That's why I'm suggesting gear restrictive matchmaking (not just skill restrictive). So basically if you are going to use the cheap and skill free militia gear you will only have the option to play for low rewards, while if you dare to use higher more expensive gear you could get much more reward with no militia gear soldiers on the battlefield. Come off it. What is it with the militia hate. I've said this on another thread where the OP there was saying this as well as other stuff, but I'll do it again. What's wrong with militia gear? We're less than a month into a game that has an extremely long planned life, and you're mouthing off because people are using militia gear still. Try taking a look at the bigger picture! The ability to use more advanced gear gives a slight edge, but it doesn't automatically mean you should win against a militia gear user. What really decides the winner is the actual players skill, and to be honest, some luck Some of a merc's battlefield ability comes from where SP has been spent as well as what gear is being used. How do you know where the player using the militia gear has spent their SP. They could have already maxed out their weapon operation and be into proficiency. Throw in a few levels in sharpshooter, good fps gaming skills, and they could rock militia gear, tearing alot of players apart. It has been said already up above, it's up to you as to what gear and how much to spend within your present ability to try to give an edge, but you have to have some skill to match that expenditure. Edit: The dropship and militia swarm launcher issue I can see being irritating but they counter the militia dropship. The maps unfortunately mostly don't suit dropships due to being on the small size, but this is soon to be changed. Just because I'm making a suggestion does not mean I'm "mouthing off." I agree that more advanced gear should not mean you automatically win, I get that. And if you use the higher end gear you have a risk involved with that, I understand that as well. All I'm suggesting is make it so the lowest end gear you can use is the level 1 gear that you used skill points to acquire. I have no hate towards lower end gear killing top end gear, I only have hate for people being able to run around the main public matches with gear they spent no skill points to use. So split it up into to sections - Milita Gear only and Everything else. And if you really want to keep the militia gear in the way it is than there needs to be a big gap between Militia and Level 1 gear followed by only moderate increases each level afterwards.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.06 21:47:00 - [13] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: For example, I'm in favor of two major categories: Ambush Militia/Skirmish Militia - Only militia gear allowed. This is what people can queue up to get a taste of the various gear. There is also a lower amount of ISK and SP earned through this variant. Ambush Mercenary/Skirmish Mercenary - This would be the normal stuff we already have but no militia gear allowed. this isn't in keeping with the new eden thematic of "there is always a bigger fish than you." but let's toss that aside for now and examine the first major problem with your idea: Only the basic pubmatches allow you to earn SP. So you're sentencing everyone to sh**fits with little or no ISK reward to gain skillpoints. Because the ISK payout is dependent upon relative value of destroyed assets. Second issue: there should be no matchmaking based on gear or relative SP. This is a level bracket thing that WOW and other themepark MMOs use to balance their matches and it's not indicative of relative ability. I'm fairly certain that the matchmaking is a combination of relative KDR and warpoint gains, and if so, it is working as intended. I have a crapass KDR, usually around a .8 or .9, but that's never been my priority, but I usually top out over 1000 WP and rarely drop below 800. So I tend to encounter people with KDR of 2.0-5.0 or higher whenever I drop into missions and i hold my own rather well thank you. it doesn't really matter if I'm in a militia set, I kill advanced equipment just fine, thanks. and vice versa. 1,000,000 ISK says CCP is using KDR and warpoint gains as their matchmaking criteria. if a newberry somehow manages to run a 5.0 KDR in a militia fit he'll wind up facing imperfeccts in advanced gear, then have to learn that skilled players + gear = death. I know I don't have the best KDR but I have a feeling I'm the source of a LOT of "Nerf HMG/Heavy dropsit" hate because i'm figuring out how to deploy it most efficiently. The logic of the heavy dropsuit is inverse to my experience as a Real-life machinegunner but it works. I'm quite sure that I'm the source of a lot of "Tanks are underpowered" rage as I tend to massacre 90% of tanks on the field. i think if that's how they're doing it, then it's a good thing, as people will bounce up and down both ways to encounter a wide variety of opponents, and not be stuck in a static kill list that never changes relative to SP. Variety is good.
gizzardgulpe Icarus Armada 0	Posted - 2013.02.06 21:59:00 - [14] - Quote I don't think it would be a bad idea to have additional battle options when you're looking to join a battle. Leave the current play system with the three choices, no restrictions on play style, but add in say, "Ambush-Militia Only" and "Ambush-Militia Banned". Higher rewards if you pay for every single piece of equipment, lower rewards if you play with only free stuff. Leave the current system intact for people who like the idea of stomping on proto suits with militia crap, or vice versa, and add in subsystems that add or subtract the gamble. I mean, I'm a pretty terrible FPS player, and I like the aspects of gambling and practicing in the Eve universe, so I would probably switch around between different play styles if I could.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.06 22:15:00 - [15] - Quote gizzardgulpe wrote: I don't think it would be a bad idea to have additional battle options when you're looking to join a battle. Adding options to gameplay is always better than restricting the options on gameplay.
KA24DERT Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2013.02.07 17:54:00 - [16] - Quote I think it would be great to have Meta level restricted matches that are then grouped by player skill points. It's a great way for someone to hone their skills on a level playing field, and to find out what weaknesses their equipment has been making up for.


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