DUST Search - how are the racial dropsuits skills going to be handled?

Kelshaw Xu wrote:

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

The better way to do it would be drop the racial name from the current skills ... ie. Caldari Assault Dropsuit becomes Assault Dropsuit.

Then the Assault Dropsuit skill unlocks the racial variant skills at different levels, so level 1 would unlock the Caldari Assault Dropsuit skill which when trained to lvl 3 for example would let you use the advanced suit ... however these suits would get bonuses from further training the Assault Dropsuit skill like 2% assault rifle damage for example.

Then at lvl 2 Aassault Dropsuit skill the Gallente Assault Dropsuit skill is unlocked alowing use of the Gallente 'sprint' Dropsuit which gets stamina bonuses from the Assault Dropsuit skill.

At lvl 5 Assault Dropsuit you could unlock the Amarr skill which allows the Amarr 'stealth' Assault Dropsuit which has a bonus of 99% rexuction in cpu need of cloaking devices !

That's how I'd like to see it work ... So your invested points now are converted into unlocks of the racial variants and it won't take people long to skill basic and advanced levels of what they have already unlocked.

I like that idea, but my fear is the weapons. What about the racial then? Assault Rifle is currently Galente/Caldari, HMG is Matari but can currently only be used with Ammarian Heavy suits.

Then once you add the bonus skills to the Dropsuits do the Ammar get the short end? Many of the skill bonuses in EvE are based on racial ship with racial weapon. And it's not like anyone can train Heavy Scrambler for their Heavy Ammarian dropsuit.

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Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:31:00 - [1] - Quote I fear, nay, DREAD having to specialise in ANOTHER 2.5 million SP tree, just to have a different looking assault dropsuit, with perhaps a different set of racial bonuses that I prefer over the Caldari suit that I had little choice to spec into. I heard a faint rumor that we would have to get a racial skill to get racial bonuses, which I would HIGHLY support, IF instead of Caldari assault dropsuit, it was just assault dropsuit skill, allowing you to wear any race, but to get the bonus, you'd have to have the racial skill to the proper level. I'd really like some clarification so i can save my skill points for the dropsuit I really want, or what.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:33:00 - [2] - Quote CCP wolfman will put out a blog. If anything chances are they're going to refund that suits SP invested only so you can change suit races when they're released.
crazy space 1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:52:00 - [3] - Quote The skill books for suit are being 100% changed becuase you know, that's what you do 3 weeks after open beta yup.
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2013.02.05 04:55:00 - [4] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP wolfman will put out a blog. If anything chances are they're going to refund that suits SP invested only so you can change suit races when they're released. What about all of the suits and fittings purchased? Can I have my aur Caldari Raven suit converted into a minmatar assault suit?
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.02.05 05:02:00 - [5] - Quote Something tells me the skills really won't be changing...maybe a 2x skill will be added to take advantage of the racial dropsuits (one for each race, not one for each race and dropsuit...something like "Caldari Dropsuit Specialization; Unlocks access to Caldari racial dropsuit abilities, standard at lv1, adv at lv3, proto at lv5. You must have access to the dropsuits in order to benefit from these abilities" [you have access to all 4 types of the suit you unlock with the normal dropsuit skill; this skill just unlocks the racial ability in the suit])
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 53	Posted - 2013.02.05 05:02:00 - [6] - Quote hopefully they don't do racial suits skill but instead one skill for each base type (like what we have currently, remove the racial name from each one), and racial variants give 4 choices at every tech level.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.02.05 05:14:00 - [7] - Quote Well, you have to do that in Eve Online. Just wait until we start seeing Tech Two gear xD
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.05 09:08:00 - [8] - Quote I want DUST to be like EVE, but that would be like.. start with racial scout suit lvl 1 train racial scout suit lvl 4 train racial assault to lvl 4 train racial logi to lvl 5 train racial heavy. soooo... I think they should either keep it as race/type dropsuit skills, and "refund" any points put in to dropsuits before the changes (preferred) Or, make blanket "Assault/Scout/Logi/Heavy Dropsuit" skills, and create racial bonus sub-skill category (more user friendly, but also less EVE-like). I just dont want to feel penalised for starting early when there were no real choices.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.05 09:14:00 - [9] - Quote Stop FotM chasing and start just spending SP in something you want to play.
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.02.05 09:28:00 - [10] - Quote AFAIK CCP have mentioned that SP respecs aren't off the table - if deemed appropriate - during the beta.

Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.05 09:29:00 - [11] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Stop FotM chasing and start just spending SP in something you want to play. I want to play an astronaut when I grow up.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:06:00 - [12] - Quote In the cast514 they said it would get more eve like, with suit specializations of the base type. So, it would be one 2x skill for each race and suit combination. 16 skills with types we have now, 24 once we have crusader and pilot suits. Then there would be separate skills for each assault specialized suit. So each specialized suit would need a skll in the racial suit type and the specialized type. Eve Example, gallente frigates need skill gallente frigates, caldari frigates need caldari frigates. Gallente interceptor frigates need gallente frigates skill and interceptor skill Caldari interceptors need same specialty skill, but diffrent frigate base skill So a player that trains for gallente interceptors and caldari assault frigates, would also have caldari interceptors and gallente assualt frigates. since specallty is not race specfific, only base skill is race specific. All our dropsuit skills already state a race. They could change the suit skills, they just changed eve's battlecruiser and destroyer skills in last update. If they will do it in established game they would do it in beta if they thought it was needed. A option to switch race of suit type when it first is available would be nice. I'm training other things till they annouce more about suits to be safe, b-type can wait till I know more.
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:37:00 - [13] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: In the cast514 they said it would get more eve like, with suit specializations of the base type. So, it would be one 2x skill for each race and suit combination. 16 skills with types we have now, 24 once we have crusader and pilot suits. Then there would be separate skills for each assault specialized suit. So each specialized suit would need a skll in the racial suit type and the specialized type. Eve Example, gallente frigates need skill gallente frigates, caldari frigates need caldari frigates. Gallente interceptor frigates need gallente frigates skill and interceptor skill Caldari interceptors need same specialty skill, but diffrent frigate base skill So a player that trains for gallente interceptors and caldari assault frigates, would also have caldari interceptors and gallente assualt frigates. since specallty is not race specfific, only base skill is race specific. All our dropsuit skills already state a race. They could change the suit skills, they just changed eve's battlecruiser and destroyer skills in last update. If they will do it in established game they would do it in beta if they thought it was needed. A option to switch race of suit type when it first is available would be nice. I'm training other things till they annouce more about suits to be safe, b-type can wait till I know more. your last sentence was prettymuch why I made this thread. Some of us don't really prefer the race our preferred dropsuits are currently restricted to. knowing officially how the changes are currently expected to be implemented would help a lot of people who are, since the anouncement, (which I am glad they are relaying these things!!! By the way, TY CCP!) wondering if they just wasted 1.2m on a B-series they won't be using in a few months (alternately, being "forced" to use a racial dropsuit just because it was the only option when they started!)
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:54:00 - [14] - Quote Bottom line. I am not training into any suites till I have too. I will keep putting my SP in the base level skills and what ever skills I need to have fun playing the game.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.02.05 10:59:00 - [15] - Quote All the existing suits will probably be prefixed with the race they represent. They will then add new skills based on race for racial suits that don't exist yet. For example: Caldari Assault Suit (Existing) Gallente Assault Suit (New) Amarr Assault suit (New) Minmatar Assault suit (New) Gallente Scout Suit(Existing) Caldari Scout Suit (New) Amarr Scout Suit (New) Minmatar Scout Suit (New) Militia "unskilled" suit will probably just stay the same racial type as before (The militia assult suit will still be a caldari assault suit model). Or they will add 4 variants based on the model of the race but keep the stats the same (the militia assault will look like one of the four races assault variants but the stats will be the same as the existing militia assault).
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:03:00 - [16] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: All the existing suits will probably be prefixed with the race they represent. They will then add new skills based on race for racial suits that don't exist yet. For example: Caldari Assault Suit (Existing) Gallente Assault Suit (New) Amarr Assault suit (New) Minmatar Assault suit (New) Gallente Scout Suit(Existing) Caldari Scout Suit (New) Amarr Scout Suit (New) Minmatar Scout Suit (New) Militia "unskilled" suit will probably just stay the same racial type as before (The militia assult suit will still be a caldari assault suit model). Or they will add 4 variants based on the model of the race but keep the stats the same (the militia assault will look like one of the four races assault variants but the stats will be the same as the existing militia assault). This is pretty much what I am expecting. I think most people are complaining because they chose a race, but had to spec into a different races suit because they wanted to play that play style. Which dosn't effect me greatly, but I can see how it would if I spent a lot of SP into suites.
Chibi Andy Celtic Anarchy 38	Posted - 2013.02.05 12:27:00 - [17] - Quote im just interested to see how each suit will all look like depending on the races etc etc like how a whole set of gallante suits will look and such, would be nice tho with some extra benefits to it
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 197	Posted - 2013.02.05 12:40:00 - [18] - Quote Hehe just wait till they release pirate faction suits....
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.05 13:39:00 - [19] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP wolfman will put out a blog. If anything chances are they're going to refund that suits SP invested only so you can change suit races when they're released. What about all of the suits and fittings purchased? Can I have my aur Caldari Raven suit converted into a minmatar assault suit? no refunds there, youll be able to sell them back eventually though.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2013.02.05 13:41:00 - [20] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: AFAIK CCP have mentioned that SP respecs aren't off the table - if deemed appropriate fixed.

Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.02.05 13:41:00 - [21] - Quote The better way to do it would be drop the racial name from the current skills ... ie. Caldari Assault Dropsuit becomes Assault Dropsuit. Then the Assault Dropsuit skill unlocks the racial variant skills at different levels, so level 1 would unlock the Caldari Assault Dropsuit skill which when trained to lvl 3 for example would let you use the advanced suit ... however these suits would get bonuses from further training the Assault Dropsuit skill like 2% assault rifle damage for example. Then at lvl 2 Aassault Dropsuit skill the Gallente Assault Dropsuit skill is unlocked alowing use of the Gallente 'sprint' Dropsuit which gets stamina bonuses from the Assault Dropsuit skill. At lvl 5 Assault Dropsuit you could unlock the Amarr skill which allows the Amarr 'stealth' Assault Dropsuit which has a bonus of 99% rexuction in cpu need of cloaking devices ! That's how I'd like to see it work ... So your invested points now are converted into unlocks of the racial variants and it won't take people long to skill basic and advanced levels of what they have already unlocked.
Kelshaw Xu ZionTCD Legacy Rising 65	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:00:00 - [22] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: The better way to do it would be drop the racial name from the current skills ... ie. Caldari Assault Dropsuit becomes Assault Dropsuit. Then the Assault Dropsuit skill unlocks the racial variant skills at different levels, so level 1 would unlock the Caldari Assault Dropsuit skill which when trained to lvl 3 for example would let you use the advanced suit ... however these suits would get bonuses from further training the Assault Dropsuit skill like 2% assault rifle damage for example. Then at lvl 2 Aassault Dropsuit skill the Gallente Assault Dropsuit skill is unlocked alowing use of the Gallente 'sprint' Dropsuit which gets stamina bonuses from the Assault Dropsuit skill. At lvl 5 Assault Dropsuit you could unlock the Amarr skill which allows the Amarr 'stealth' Assault Dropsuit which has a bonus of 99% rexuction in cpu need of cloaking devices ! That's how I'd like to see it work ... So your invested points now are converted into unlocks of the racial variants and it won't take people long to skill basic and advanced levels of what they have already unlocked. I like that idea, but my fear is the weapons. What about the racial then? Assault Rifle is currently Galente/Caldari, HMG is Matari but can currently only be used with Ammarian Heavy suits. Then once you add the bonus skills to the Dropsuits do the Ammar get the short end? Many of the skill bonuses in EvE are based on racial ship with racial weapon. And it's not like anyone can train Heavy Scrambler for their Heavy Ammarian dropsuit.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 296	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:27:00 - [23] - Quote I think Praetorian said a full rework of the suits was expected, although a few may not be ready on time. When I asked him about racial weapons in the next build he said only "possibly". I would expect weapon bonuses to come out until all racial suits and weapons were ready.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:18:00 - [24] - Quote Kelshaw Xu wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: The better way to do it would be drop the racial name from the current skills ... ie. Caldari Assault Dropsuit becomes Assault Dropsuit. Then the Assault Dropsuit skill unlocks the racial variant skills at different levels, so level 1 would unlock the Caldari Assault Dropsuit skill which when trained to lvl 3 for example would let you use the advanced suit ... however these suits would get bonuses from further training the Assault Dropsuit skill like 2% assault rifle damage for example. Then at lvl 2 Aassault Dropsuit skill the Gallente Assault Dropsuit skill is unlocked alowing use of the Gallente 'sprint' Dropsuit which gets stamina bonuses from the Assault Dropsuit skill. At lvl 5 Assault Dropsuit you could unlock the Amarr skill which allows the Amarr 'stealth' Assault Dropsuit which has a bonus of 99% rexuction in cpu need of cloaking devices ! That's how I'd like to see it work ... So your invested points now are converted into unlocks of the racial variants and it won't take people long to skill basic and advanced levels of what they have already unlocked. I like that idea, but my fear is the weapons. What about the racial then? Assault Rifle is currently Galente/Caldari, HMG is Matari but can currently only be used with Ammarian Heavy suits. Then once you add the bonus skills to the Dropsuits do the Ammar get the short end? Many of the skill bonuses in EvE are based on racial ship with racial weapon. And it's not like anyone can train Heavy Scrambler for their Heavy Ammarian dropsuit. We'd have to wait and see what other Heavy weapons are introduced ... we could see a mass driver style artillery weapon or lazer or missiles/rockets ... we don't know. But they could all be handled the same ... the Minmatar Heavy suit would have bonuses to the Minmatar weapons (maybe even blanket ... 2% damage to any matari weapon) and each weapon would require its base skill ... followed by its racial skill. So to get the bonus you would need Heavy Dropsuit skill 3 for Amarr Heavy dropsuit skill at 3 for advanced giving 3% damage to the Amarr HMG which requires HMG operation to 5 in order to train Amarr HMG skill which is the best one (why it requires lvl 5 ) so has bigger clips or reduced heat build up or whatever. Or you could go Minmatar Heavy HMG ... the suit is a lvl 5 skill and better than the Amarr one ... but gives bonuses to the Minmatar HMG which is only the lvl 3 version and isn't as good as the Amarr. This way you get an incredible variation in the roles each class and weapon of choice can be skilled to get slightly differwnt balance at the end ... one way doing more weapon damage, another more suit hp, another longer ranges, another faster reloads etc. etc. etc.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 208	Posted - 2013.02.05 17:35:00 - [25] - Quote Not to mention it negates the need to wipe any skills ... your already invested points have simply allowed you to unlock the better Factions version of what you've skilled in ... which ever way CCP decide who makes the better variants is up to them. And it opens up the endless variation in Fitting that we have in Eve ... a good Heavy might not use his suit bonuses, but using the Minmatar suit and Amarr HMG he could get the high hp suit with reduced speed and the longer range HMG with increased heat build up ... he wouldnt get the heat reduction the Amarr suit would add, or the increased range the Minmatar suit would add, but he'd get a more balanced suit with a high median of all attributes cos he's using the "better" suit and weapon combined.
Orin the Freak Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 334	Posted - 2013.02.06 11:02:00 - [26] - Quote well, I'm sure we ALL know we can expect SEVERAL revisions/additions to the skills list/trees before CCP considers it even fully integrated. I also forsee it eventually being very similar to EVE, in that each item has a rather specific skill requirement. I would assume in the future, CCP will eventually do away with ALL "blanket" skills related to dropsuits, leaving weapons on semi blanket terms (racial/type). if I had to venture a guess, I'd say a good 50-75% of the skills we have currently are either placeholders, or will be highly elaborated on in future builds. not to mention I doubt we've even seen 25% of the skills we'll have in a years time. (Not to mention 5 years or more!). I don't expect a skill reset/refund every time CCP adds/changes a skill, but this early on, when choices are made based on limited options, I'd like to know how CCP will keep early adopters appeased?


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