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Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:38:00 -
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I'm literally LOL-in at "51% of gamers are women"...yeah, if you count crap like Farmville it is...as far as real games, I'd say <20%, and most are RPG/Puzzle/primarily-SP-games gamers (and I'll fully admit I love my RPGs)
The reality is, no matter what MP game I play with mics, I get harassed when I have a female toon (which is just about every game that allows it). Games without mics guys, for one reason or another, don't harass as much; probably because there's a greater chance of the toon really being a guy...
I play a LOT of MP games, shooters especially, and am average to above average in skill. The harassment I get when I do well is unbelievable..."OMG, girls can't game!" "there's no way a girl is playing like this!" and then there's the real harassment (which I won't repeat). Just speaking on the mic gets all sorts of bad comments. So, I rarely have my mic on when I'm not playing with my friends (I can't say corp/clan mates 100%...I belong to a large clan and I don't trust new members enough to not say anything or to take orders from me. I know better) But when with a friend, will talk, because the guys that harass will listen to another guy (and if they're a clanmate, they learn quick to keep quiet. This applies to all forms of harassment to clanmates, BTW, but female harassment tend to be more common, as they think its ok)
And yes, if you haven't figured it out by now, I am really a woman. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 03:41:00 -
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Imp Smash wrote:Would this work both ways? ie. if a female harasses a male on the Internet? Would the male then be able to report them? Its so rare that a woman will harass a man for being a man (for one, its rare enough to find one in game), but yes, if there was actual harassment |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 04:05:00 -
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Lady Hyuna wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Imp Smash wrote:Would this work both ways? ie. if a female harasses a male on the Internet? Would the male then be able to report them? Its so rare that a woman will harass a man for being a man (for one, its rare enough to find one in game), but yes, if there was actual harassment The reason you see less of it is one, a lot of us tend to play male characters to get away from that harassment. Since there is a lot of men you can't keep their mind out of the gutter, we play as men characters and act like it. we are automatically treated as equals. Its kinda sad, but that is how things tend to flow in the game world. I mean its not like we get the same pleasure out of staring at man's ass in a mmo like a man does playing a female character. Not true. Its always the voice, in my experience. I'm played a number of shooters, some of which have had female models, some without, but its always been after I speak that the real harassment happens |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 15:38:00 -
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Don Von Hulio wrote:Oh noe's. You sound like you've never played an online game before. Everyone goes ape sh** when they hear a girl on the mic. And you making a big deal over it is not the best way to go about it. There is a block function, and a mute option. And getting irritated because some people are "hounding" you is a bit ridiculous... especially when everyone is stuck on the bridge without a choice anyway.
And there is always those people who are just ingrates, or annoying in general. Mute/block them.
I get "hounded" because i have Primordial militia gear. You don't see me posting a thread whining about all the people grinding on my suit trying to get the camera in my dudes crotch.
Please, grow up and enjoy the game for the love of god and all that is holy. You're honestly just part of the problem.
"There's nothing wrong with getting lewd comments thrown at you and being harassed for something you cannot control. Just shut up and deal with it"
No. There is no reason for anyone to do that, and the guys that do (and those that defend them) are absolute scum.
I wonder when our society actually goes beyond this crap. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 16:43:00 -
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Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Oh noe's. You sound like you've never played an online game before. Everyone goes ape sh** when they hear a girl on the mic. And you making a big deal over it is not the best way to go about it. There is a block function, and a mute option. And getting irritated because some people are "hounding" you is a bit ridiculous... especially when everyone is stuck on the bridge without a choice anyway.
And there is always those people who are just ingrates, or annoying in general. Mute/block them.
I get "hounded" because i have Primordial militia gear. You don't see me posting a thread whining about all the people grinding on my suit trying to get the camera in my dudes crotch.
Please, grow up and enjoy the game for the love of god and all that is holy. You're honestly just part of the problem. "There's nothing wrong with getting lewd comments thrown at you and being harassed for something you cannot control. Just shut up and deal with it" No. There is no reason for anyone to do that, and the guys that do (and those that defend them) are absolute scum. I wonder when our society actually goes beyond this crap. Careful about making your own decisions that are based upon arbitrary understandings and assumptions. And this is not to say that your statement about not accepting that behavior is not on point, at least in my eyes. Yet the language you used to describe the purported assailant only perpetuates the cycle of attacking and staunchly defending ones actions, no matter how socially and universally out of tune and balance they are. Throw discriminatory behavior at someone, don't be surprised if you get it back. Just my 0.02 ISK, and an observation. Whenever I get into a discussion on this subject, this always comes up: "Because you can't take some 'lighthearted joking' (the harassment, as described by people who allow it or encourage it) you need to shut up about it and not 'harass' (speak against) us."
Someone who harasses and/or assaults someone does not deserve kind words to be used to describe them; to do so would be accepting of their behavior and encourages it more. Calling them out for their idiotic behavior (because it is idiotic to harass someone for something they cannot control; it shows a distinct lack of education/intelligence, good sense, and respect for others) is not inherently wrong; it is truthful and an attempt to get them to change, or at least try to get them to realize that they are doing something that is wrong.
You say that I am basing things on "arbitrary understandings and assumptions"...you are wrong. Try having this behavior lobbed at you for several years, by many, many people, and most times you have your mic on with randoms. Maybe if you had something similar happen to you, you'd understand why its a problem.
Its not about having feelings hurt, or not liking someone; it is an inherent problem with gamer/nerd culture that NEEDS to be addressed and stopped. Allowing it, looking the other way, treating the harassers nicely; this allows it to continue. Women hate it, but with the harassers ignoring them or becoming even more harsh when spoken against, other guys need to take a stand against them. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 16:51:00 -
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Kazeno Rannaa wrote: Only by actively addressing the issue at hand can you hope to produce the change that you seek, primarily through discussion and the development of understanding. Being passive on the mic and not airing the issue as it occurs, you can not hope to address the issue at the source of its occurrence.
I'm just going to say this: Most women fed up with this behavior have tried, many, many times, to ask (or told) guys to stop harassing them. Most of the time it results in MORE harassment. Very, very rarely will a guy stop because their target asked them to; it is a challenge to them to be worse.
You can say "keep trying and someone will eventually stop" but when the normal response is to be worse...is the remote possibility of getting it to stop really better than all the extra harassment received?
And...why is it on the woman to get them to stop? What about all the guys that sit there and say nothing? |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.01 17:13:00 -
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IRuby Heart wrote:Grendel Aurelius wrote:I'd like to just take a moment to remind you that you are not really the person you see on your screen when playing this game. Neither are you really on a warbarge about to attack a planet with immortal clones. You are actually playing a game, which by its very definition tends to attract children or adults with a childlike disposition.
I can assure you that your terrible suffrage at the hands of people who are not actually there with you and cannot actually do anything relevant to you, does not warrant the title of 'harassment'.
*snipped sexist and political language* - CCP Eterne This, was about to post this myself and I'm a female. Why get so worked up over someone staring at you in a video game in an area where there's literally nothing else to do anyway... Voice harassment or harassment through messages on the other hand is something I don't tolerate. I'm not even concerning myself with following people around and boxing them in on the Warbarge...its a non-issue to me. Sure, I'll comment to my friends about some guy following me around or staring, but its not a real issue to me; like everyone says, there's nothing to do and I see guys getting the same treatment a lot. Having a special suit (Skinweave, MAG, militia-BPO, alt-color AUR suits) seems to attract about the same or more attention than a woman. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.02 01:13:00 -
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So, Grendel, is someone writing an anonymous letter to the newspaper, writing about how he feels all woman need to be completely submissive to men, and how any woman seen outside their homes without their man deserve to be beaten and ******, not considered to be harassing women? Is he not a threat to us? Are woman supposed to just not read the paper or look the other way?
What about a guy calling a woman's home, and threatening her sexually that way? Is she supposed to just hang up every time he calls, threatening her with harm?
Neither of these cases are a man saying these things face-to-face to a woman, but are they to be tolerated? If you don't think I've heard some absolutely sick things guys want to do to me online, you're only kidding yourself; to say that I should ignore this means you are part of the problem. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.02 03:26:00 -
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Its sad, really sad, that Grendel thinks harassment is perfectly fine.
In a way, he's like those people who blame a woman for being ******; "she should have not been in that place at that time", "she should not have worn that outfit", "she should have fought back" and all those other absolutely BS "excuses" for the villain.
Makes me sick that these people are still accepted in today's society. They'd chance their tunes very quickly if something comparable happened to them, and they got no support or care. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.02 03:51:00 -
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Grendel Aurelius wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Its sad, really sad, that Grendel thinks harassment is perfectly fine.
In a way, he's like those people who blame a woman for being ******; "she should have not been in that place at that time", "she should not have worn that outfit", "she should have fought back" and all those other absolutely BS "excuses" for the villain.
Makes me sick that these people are still accepted in today's society. They'd chance their tunes very quickly if something comparable happened to them, and they got no support or care. and the crazy train goes CHOOO CHOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. because OBVIOUSLY real world sexual assault is the same thing as your perceived (OHNOS) harassment in a video game. Get a grip. You really don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Blaming the victim, regardless of the cause of attack, is just plain wrong.
It takes a very special kind of person to continue to kick someone who is down, someone who has been wrong many times before, even after being told how wrong they are.
Wonder what it is about you that makes you so insecure... |
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Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.02 23:41:00 -
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Kazeno Rannaa wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Kazeno Rannaa wrote: Only by actively addressing the issue at hand can you hope to produce the change that you seek, primarily through discussion and the development of understanding. Being passive on the mic and not airing the issue as it occurs, you can not hope to address the issue at the source of its occurrence.
I'm just going to say this: Most women fed up with this behavior have tried, many, many times, to ask (or told) guys to stop harassing them. Most of the time it results in MORE harassment. Very, very rarely will a guy stop because their target asked them to; it is a challenge to them to be worse. You can say "keep trying and someone will eventually stop" but when the normal response is to be worse...is the remote possibility of getting it to stop really better than all the extra harassment received? And...why is it on the woman to get them to stop? What about all the guys that sit there and say nothing? Fighting viciously with someone though doesn't really produce a long lasting result either. It is only a short term solution. And in all honesty, imposing your will upon someone only produces a situation where the the individual that was imposed upon only seeks those opportunities to escape the imposition of unwanted regimentation. So be careful on how you begin to approach a problem and devise your solution. By actively interacting and engaging the perpetrator of the offense with a more compassionate stance, you will be able to educate them to the pain their action brings. It is not about it being the responsibility of either just the man or the woman, rather it is the responsibility of both in helping create a more equitable social situation. Attacking my perceptions and view points are not winning you or anyone else brownie points. I am just offering you an alternative. Did you even read what I wrote? Do you also have any experience whatsoever with this?
No?
OK, then.
I will repeat it since you didn't understand the first time; the guys that do this BS do not listen to reason, and any attempts by the woman to get it to stop will almost certainly get met with even more harassment. Nicely asked or not, it doesn't matter; result is almost always the same. And, if you don't think the initial reaction to try to get it to stop was asking nicely, you are kidding yourself. The bitterness comes from years of harassment, years of trying to get it to end, and seeing guys making BS excuses for its continued existence; niceness never got any results, so it gets pushed to the side in favor of trying to fight back using harsher words.
And I will repeat this again, since you didn't answer it either; why is it on us to get it to stop, and not the guys listening to what is going on? Why must the victims always be the ones to have to do something to get their attacker to stop, and not the bystanders (who, by doing nothing, tell the harasser that it is OK to keep doing it)?
It is so damn easy for a guy to make excuses, to give "advice" to someone who is being harassed when they themselves never have been, and never will be. If you cared, you'd actually do something to get it to stop, rather than try to pass the buck and place the blame on the victims. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.03 00:28:00 -
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Citrutex wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:wall of text You seem to assume that men have never dealt with harassment nor will they ever get the chance to be harassed therefore there is no possible way they can know anything about this subject. Sorry but you're wrong. So, you get lewd comments thrown at you from the other gender anytime you have your mic on with randoms? You have women saying all sorts of nasty things they want to do to you, should you meet? You have woman constantly remarking about how you shouldn't be playing the game, how you should be pleasing your woman or finding one and doing everything she asks?
We are talking about harassment in games, something I bet you just would watch happen if you ever heard it. Doubt you'd even realize its going on, since you may even be the one starting it. When you get harassed every match you have your mic on, come and talk here, or start a new thread. |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.03 01:09:00 -
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Citrutex wrote: So please, stop the man hate. That's all.
So its OK...for men to hate on women...but not OK...for women to hate on men?
Makes sense... |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.03 01:25:00 -
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Citrutex wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Citrutex wrote: So please, stop the man hate. That's all.
So its OK...for men to hate on women...but not OK...for women to hate on men? Makes sense... And where exactly did I imply that? Sexual harassment is not ok under any circumstance, and i doubt anyone would disagree with that statement. Then, why do you keep implying that it is not a problem in game and saying that women need to stop complaining about it? |
Phoenix Archer 128
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Posted - 2013.02.03 01:41:00 -
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Citrutex wrote:Phoenix Archer 128 wrote:Then, why do you keep implying that it is not a problem in game and saying that women need to stop complaining about it? Again, where exactly did I ever imply that? Read your posts again. Dismissing posts as "wall of texts". Not answering questions directed at you, but brushing them aside with irrelevant topics. Saying to "stop the man hate"
But I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to you anymore; you'll just keep ignoring and go about telling us to deal with it ourselves. |
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