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Monkey Throwing Poo
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.01.28 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am curious of the amount of players that are going glass cannon builds and what effect those builds are having on current weapons in Dust 514.
Glass cannon is a common MMO term and archetype, where in the player goes High damage but is also very fragile as they sacrifice armor for damage.
In Dust 514, this is more common then most players and I think CCP understand. Many of the threads over the last month calling for Nerf to this or Nerf to that, have actually been heavily influenced by players going "Glass Cannon Builds", most common over the last month (current Build) Laser with 2-3 Complex damage mods, HMG 2 Complex Damage Mods, Mass Driver 203 Complex Damage mods. As players get better Drop suits and have the ability to add more damage mods the higher the damage and faster the kills.
But these same players that go Glass Cannon, they have a weakness to exploit. They have no shields on, they never run with armor and if you can get them before they get you they are easily killed.
But forum posters need to keep this in mind with Nerf Threads rampant around the forums. Not everyone is playing the same game you are. |
slap26
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
462
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP needs to fix the broken damage mods before nerfing anything else. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
I like ppl using glass cannons, 10 bullets from a basic AR can kill them, while their dmg set up still needs 15-20 to kill a Buffer build.
Personally I live by my old eve Interdictor pilots motto: "I must live so that the many can die" |
Tregar Kerrigan
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Glass cannon can be effective when it is in it's optimal situation, such as a heavy catching a group of enemies at 10m as they come around a corner. That is what the fitting is best at, however if that same group of 3 enemies were to split up and flank the heavy at 30m range, he doesn;t stand a chance. Those are the tradeoffs you make when you go glass cannon. I haven't seen anything that makes me cry imbalance about any of the weapons I have been killed with. |
Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
107
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
You forgot the Shotti speed scout suit. Nothing is more glass cannon than that. It's a riot to play and icing heavy's is super fun. |
Drado Arona
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
64
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tregar Kerrigan wrote:Glass cannon can be effective when it is in it's optimal situation, such as a heavy catching a group of enemies at 10m as they come around a corner. That is what the fitting is best at, however if that same group of 3 enemies were to split up and flank the heavy at 30m range, he doesn;t stand a chance. Those are the tradeoffs you make when you go glass cannon. I haven't seen anything that makes me cry imbalance about any of the weapons I have been killed with.
Glass cannon builds are optimum when in squads. Let's say 1 logi (repper not combat) 1 heavy (tank supposidly) 2 Glass cannon assault/scout's. It's a decent play style but you can't complain if you die in normal pubs because you die to quickly. In essence glass cannons need support to be truly effective. |
Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
107
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drado Arona wrote:Glass cannon builds are optimum when in squads. Let's say 1 logi (repper not combat) 1 heavy (tank supposidly) 2 Glass cannon assault/scout's. It's a decent play style but you can't complain if you die in normal pubs because you die to quickly. In essence glass cannons need support to be truly effective.
I tend to disagree. The glass cannon lives by surprise and stealth. One can not be stealthy in a group. I find that it's most effective as a lone wolfer; hiding, sneaking, flanking and then pouncing on its pray. |
General Tiberius1
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Panoscape wrote:You forgot the Shotti speed scout suit. Nothing is more glass cannon than that. It's a riot to play and icing heavy's is super fun.
this is why nerfing the heavy is not needed, hell the proto heavies need a buff at this point |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Glass cannon is expensive and a bad choice unless you,re a really good fps player. I saw a guys using a Duvolle yesterday, and he was getting beaten in 1 v 1 with me in a Scout suit. |
Monkey Throwing Poo
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.01.28 17:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Glass cannon is expensive and a bad choice unless you,re a really good fps player. I saw a guys using a Duvolle yesterday, and he was getting beaten in 1 v 1 with me in a Scout suit.
I will agree, but as players get better the Glass Cannon will be used more and more.
The reason for my post is to point out that threads that want nerfs for weapons need to keep this in mind.
Most of the rants about weapons have been about "pro" players using Glass Cannons as a way to get higher K/D and more WP.
I went from a 1.50 K/D to a 2.0 in 3 days going from a normal build (2 Complex shield mods) to two damage mods glass cannon and this game became way to easy.
Also the damage mods are currently broken, instead of giving reduced damage from the 2nd and 3rd mods they give a full 10%, if this gets changed we might see less Glass Cannons and better fights, should also see reduced nerf threads. |
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Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
107
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Posted - 2013.01.28 18:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Glass cannon's can be the cheapest, as in free, OP suits in the game. Here's the loadout:
One Dragonfly Scout Suit: Free
Two Militia BPO red bottles: Free (after you bought the AUR BPO)
One Militia BPO Light damage Mod: Free (after you bought the AUR BPO)
one Militia BPO Shotgun: Free (after you bought the AUR BPO)
Hopefully you bought the BPO's before the price hike! But even if you didn't, this is still a VERY cheap suit if you did the same build with ISk militia gear and a T1 scout suit.
yes you will die... often. But you will take out EVERYONE with one shot, heavy's will take two.
This is by far the cheapest OP fit that can rule the field... but you have to know how to play it to have a positive KDR.
If more players rolled this suit then the Heavy nerf push would be off the table... they are a joke with this fit. Sneak up, two shot, they be dead. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2047
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Posted - 2013.01.28 18:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tanking>Glass Cannon
Since the flattening of damage glass cannon builds aren't as viable with maybe a few exceptions. |
Monkey Throwing Poo
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.01.28 18:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Tanking>Glass Cannon
Since the flattening of damage glass cannon builds aren't as viable with maybe a few exceptions.
Those same exceptions are the same weapons that players are calling for Nerfs, coincidence ??
Lasers, HMG, MD, Shotgun are all easily and often glass cannon builds. |
crazy space 2100046106
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
879
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Posted - 2013.01.28 19:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Panoscape wrote:You forgot the Shotti speed scout suit. Nothing is more glass cannon than that. It's a riot to play and icing heavy's is super fun.
Scout with speed mods and weapon mods. Nanohive with AV gernades.
Breach shotgun.
Oh yes, one shottin heavies everyday. |
crazy space 2100046106
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
879
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Posted - 2013.01.28 19:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
HMG is not glass cannon, but it's SLOW. I hate playing heavy, get into a corp match, unless it's the right situation, being slow is bad when the other team can all focus their firepower effectively. You will praying you were in your type 2 assault. |
Min Rei Rei
101st Space Marines
8
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
The only "glass cannon" set ups I've seen work are snipers and shotgun scouts, both of which require a fair amount of skill to do effectively and efficiently. |
ZiwZih
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
54
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
These days on STD Scout with TacAR I find good SE much better than LDM. Coped with speed-tanking that extra buffer really means you are staying alive long enough to make distance/take a cover, even when things seem impossible.
I think this tactic will work through ADV suits, too. Only PRO Scout really opens possibilities to be creative with High Powered slots.
Of course Shotgun Scouts might have their reasons for LDM from beginning. |
Fiddlestaxp
Sil3nt Assassins
30
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
slap26 wrote:CCP needs to fix the broken damage mods before nerfing anything else.
Truth of the story. |
Sobriety Denied
Universal Allies Inc.
432
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 20:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
thats the beauty of dust is you can build a glass cannon but if they keep nerfing this will become watered down and eventually rendundant then everyone is reduced to strictly circle strafing might as well go play face of mankind ffs most of these roleplayers here would fit in real well with that game |
Ian Razzledazzle
Kilrathi Knights
4
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
An intelligent player is never outmatched based on an opponent's weaponry. You gotta use the environment and awareness on the battlefield to make them make a move in your favor |
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DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
233
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Min Rei Rei wrote:The only "glass cannon" set ups I've seen work are snipers and shotgun scouts, both of which require a fair amount of skill to do effectively and efficiently.
Once you get to your lvl 3 drop suits, you really open the possibilities of adding damage mods.
I know of a lot of the top players that are going straight for lvl 3 or better suits, just for the ability to go Glass Cannon.
With some of the suits, you get the better Shields/Armor on the suit, so players will add the damage mods, but not add a single shield or armor module.
Mass Drivers with 2-3 damage mods with the current broken damage mods can get you not only increased hit damage but increased splash damage.
Lasers on almost ANY suit abuse the damage mods better then just about any other weapons.
HMG with 1 to 2 damage mods on lvl 3 dropsuits or better will be common place soon.
Again look at the threads, what weapons do players consider OP. Begs the question, are opposing players using glass cannons early this beta and new players or regular players just now seeing this?
Id like to see more threads with OP, Nerf etc also discuss Glass Cannons. But I figure a lot of the top players who use this will find ways to not discuss or to throw out the idea.
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DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
233
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Posted - 2013.01.28 20:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ian Razzledazzle wrote:An intelligent player is never outmatched based on an opponent's weaponry. You gotta use the environment and awareness on the battlefield to make them make a move in your favor
So lets say I have a MD with 2-3 damage mods on it, you have a regular style player and I see you first. In 1-2 shots either you are close to death or dead. Please tell me how the environment and awareness of the battlefield helps you then?
Better example, two equallly good players go 1vs1.
Player 1 LVL 3 Assault suit. 2 Complex shield extenders and 1 armor rep with no damage mods. Laser rifle weapon.
Players 2 Lvl 3 Assault suit, 2 complex damage mods with a laser.
Players are in open area, nothing to hide behind. Its player vs player.. who wins?
Ill put money on the 2 damage mods over the shields. As the shields are melted off as if they almost did not exist when playing vs a damage modded player. |
Ian Razzledazzle
Kilrathi Knights
4
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Posted - 2013.01.29 00:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
DEADPOOL5241 wrote:
So lets say I have a MD with 2-3 damage mods on it, you have a regular style player and I see you first. In 1-2 shots either you are close to death or dead. Please tell me how the environment and awareness of the battlefield helps you then?
Better example, two equallly good players go 1vs1.
Player 1 LVL 3 Assault suit. 2 Complex shield extenders and 1 armor rep with no damage mods. Laser rifle weapon.
Players 2 Lvl 3 Assault suit, 2 complex damage mods with a laser.
Players are in open area, nothing to hide behind. Its player vs player.. who wins?
Ill put money on the 2 damage mods over the shields. As the shields are melted off as if they almost did not exist when playing vs a damage modded player.
I'll put my money on the guy who sees the guy first if he's a better player. The guy shouldn't be out in the open. Still doesn't make much of a point. If you're seen first then you die as often as you live because someone got the jump on you. Weapons don't have anything to do with it.
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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.29 02:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
3% does not a glass cannon make. That's just the Militia Damage Mod though; I haven't checked anything else. I tried a Assault and Sniper Glass Cannon build briefly, but they were far too fragile and didn't do any significant damage for the sacrifice. Waste of time.
Maybe the higher end mods will be better for this, combined with dropsuits that have better fitting, but it is not a good low-end choice.
EVE Meta 0 Damage Mod still supplies a pretty decent bonus though I don't think many people use them, so I assume the higher end damage mods in Dust might achieve slightly better than 3%, (strictly damage with no RoF bonus),but not much more than that. Effectively, that makes them fairly useless imo, especially as they have a fairly high CPU cost associated with them. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
334
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Posted - 2013.01.29 02:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
complex damage mods give 10%, which is rather significant. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2013.01.29 02:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
slap26 wrote:CCP needs to fix the broken damage mods before nerfing anything else.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
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Posted - 2013.01.29 02:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Those CoDumbasses and their glass cannon mentality. A lot of good your damage will do when there's more than one person to worry about. |
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