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If every suit will be able to use heavy weapons.

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Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.26 20:41:00 - [1] - Quote Then there needs to be a severe penalty for it. Heavy weapons are supposed to be meant as "raw power" type weapons, things that go to the extreme for their rolls. A user of such a weapon would need the strength to control such a beast of a gun, which is why heavy's are the only ones that can use them "at this point" Since every suit will be able to use them, something needs to happen before we see zippy scouts running around with proto HMGs. Here are some of my ideas. If a non heavy suit is using a heavy weapon, then that suit needs to suffer a major speed loss. Those weapons are heavy, and a suit not built to handle such a weight needs to reflect that. CPU/GP penalty. Again, these weapons aren't built for these suits, so it should cost more for other suits to wield them. Accuracy reduction/ Slower charge up. A heavy can deal with the recoil of a HMG because that suit is built to handle it. Smaller suits are not, so they need to have a harder time handling it. The same can be said for the forge gun, and it's charge time. Implementing all 3 ideas could potentially ruin heavy weapons for smaller suits. So don't add in all three, maybe 2 ideas. I would much rather not see other suits use heavy weapons, but my plees will probably go unheard, so all I can do it pitch future ideas on how to balance it.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.01.26 20:56:00 - [2] - Quote A CPU/PG penalty isn't necessary because they already take up the most CPU/PG
Trevak Shi Nephilim Fedaykin 38	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:02:00 - [3] - Quote NO! A heavy suit was designed to use heavy weapons. An Assault, logi, or even a Scout is NOT DESIGNED to deal with the power, weight, torque, or any of the other factors connected to the operation of such vehicles of destruction. This idea is absurd and should be permanently erased from all of our minds. What made you think that this would be implemented or even be a potentiality?
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:10:00 - [4] - Quote there's a trailer out now showing an assault suit firing a forge gun. might just be for flavor of course, but it fuels speculation. plus, things like this exist, so the precedent has been set. i doubt they're just gonna stick an H slot onto every assault/scout/logi suit, it'll most likely be a unique suit, or line of suits, that gain that H slot for some other tradeoff. worst case, even if they do, at least the increased CPU/PG drain of the heavy weapons would inherently cripple the smaller suit it was strapped onto.
Drado Arona Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 64	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:11:00 - [5] - Quote Trevak Shi wrote: NO! A heavy suit was designed to use heavy weapons. An Assault, logi, or even a Scout is NOT DESIGNED to deal with the power, weight, torque, or any of the other factors connected to the operation of such vehicles of destruction. This idea is absurd and should be permanently erased from all of our minds. What made you think that this would be implemented or even be a potentiality? Uhm. I'm honestly confused as to what you're trying to say but in any case. If an assault, logi, or scout chooses to grab a heavy weapon let them have it. But at the same time they're horribly limiting the uses of their suit. A scout with a heavy weapon will be put down by my AR, Laser, Shotgun, melee in moments. An Assault with a heavy weapon is also horribly limited, sure he's got decent speed, and alright armor but he'll be put down just as fast as a scout because he won't be able to put on any (many) defensive mods, let alone any mod. Same case with the logi, limits his ability to be an actual logi. If people want to put heavy weapons on their suit let them have it. Just know that they will die in seconds upon starting to fire. They don't have the tank to have a stand off like a heavy suit. But the advantage is that they have mobility and with a heavy weapon that's GREAT ambush tactics
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1904	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:12:00 - [6] - Quote Where are you getting that heavy weapons can be equipped by anyone? Scout with an HMG? O.o
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:15:00 - [7] - Quote The trailer showed an assault fire a forge gun. To me the forge looked smaller, so I think it may be a new weaker mini forge in light slot. Others think it indicates assault suit with heavy weapons slot.
Drado Arona Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 64	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:16:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Where are you getting that heavy weapons can be equipped by anyone? Scout with an HMG? O.o I think they're trying to argue that "this weapon should only be allowed on this suit" Or in other words, people hating sandbox possibilities.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:17:00 - [9] - Quote just like in eve you could put lasers on a hurricane but it is and should remain semi-reetarded to do so
Drado Arona Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 64	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:20:00 - [10] - Quote Sobriety Denied wrote: just like in eve you could put lasers on a hurricane but it is and should remain semi-reetarded to do so well in a sense, dust is an fps, do it all depends on how people make it work. As I'd love to say that eve is completely free to do as you want to your ship, that only applies if you're willing to make it not optimal in it's skills. While in FPS anything could happen (Yes I know i'm implying that anything can't happen in eve) but let's be honest, eve ship fittings is pretty predictable. and you don't have godly flight simulator movements you can make.

slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:44:00 - [11] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: The trailer showed an assault fire a forge gun. To me the forge looked smaller, so I think it may be a new weaker mini forge in light slot. Others think it indicates assault suit with heavy weapons slot. Possible plasma AV weapon?
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:46:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Where are you getting that heavy weapons can be equipped by anyone? Scout with an HMG? O.o Awwwww hell yeah! You just convinced me to say yes to this idea
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:50:00 - [13] - Quote It seems pretty simple that as you go up in suit size, the available cpu/pg increases, and speed and mobility decreases. If a scout tries to wield an HMG he's going to use almost his entire cpu/pg just for the gun, leaving him extremely vulnerable to... well, everything.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:52:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: It seems pretty simple that as you go up in suit size, the available cpu/pg increases, and speed and mobility decreases. If a scout tries to wield an HMG he's going to use almost his entire cpu/pg just for the gun, leaving him extremely vulnerable to... well, everything. A scout is already vulnerable to everything.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 165	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:53:00 - [15] - Quote I don't see immediate issues with this, as powergrid fitting will still allow heavies keep their distinct tanky suppressor role. Forge gun scouts sound fun though, full rack of damage mods, speed mods... Heavies might just need a new suppressive weapon that puts the tank into good use. Stationary charged blaster, prehaps?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.01.26 21:58:00 - [16] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Baal Roo wrote: It seems pretty simple that as you go up in suit size, the available cpu/pg increases, and speed and mobility decreases. If a scout tries to wield an HMG he's going to use almost his entire cpu/pg just for the gun, leaving him extremely vulnerable to... well, everything. A scout is already vulnerable to everything. yup, and trying to wield a gun designed to be used on a heavier loadout and takes 4/5ths of his available cpu/pg (meaning no sidearm, no grenades, no shield modules, etc) will make him even more vulnerable. A glass cannon can have it's uses, but is extremely situational.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2242	Posted - 2013.01.26 22:01:00 - [17] - Quote If this happens then why in the world would anyone use a heavy suit?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2013.01.26 22:49:00 - [18] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: If this happens then why in the world would anyone use a heavy suit? more CPU/PG, more fitting slots, more HP.
General Erick Onslaught Inc 24	Posted - 2013.01.26 23:56:00 - [19] - Quote Trevak Shi wrote: NO! A heavy suit was designed to use heavy weapons. An Assault, logi, or even a Scout is NOT DESIGNED to deal with the power, weight, torque, or any of the other factors connected to the operation of such vehicles of destruction. This idea is absurd and should be permanently erased from all of our minds. What made you think that this would be implemented or even be a potentiality? Agreed
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2013.01.27 00:22:00 - [20] - Quote I think everyone is reading too much in to this. Did you see any heavies at all in the trailer? DId you see any scouts? Did you see anyone in anything other than the standard assault suit? They probably just modeled the one suit for the trailer to save time or something.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.27 00:45:00 - [21] - Quote Trevak Shi wrote: NO! A heavy suit was designed to use heavy weapons. An Assault, logi, or even a Scout is NOT DESIGNED to deal with the power, weight, torque, or any of the other factors connected to the operation of such vehicles of destruction. This idea is absurd and should be permanently erased from all of our minds. What made you think that this would be implemented or even be a potentiality? The "realism" of super-soldier clones in advanced/shielded body armor being able to use miniguns or forge guns is a pointless exercise. The suits are designed to do whatever CCP wants them to do. Clearly they intend to make all suits designed to carry HMGs and forge guns. We know that this may be implemented for the following reasons: First, CCP's Dust 514 Executive Producer said so in this video @ ~6:50. http://www.gamespot.com/dust-514/videos/where-eve-online-and-dust-514-collide-6402760/ "You can be a scout suit that specializes in heavy weapons, so you move quickly but carry a big gun." Incidentally he also mentioned that maps will soon be 48-players, and squad sizes will be upped to 6, with the next build also having a major graphics update which will bring vegetation to Dust maps. Lot of good info in the video, even if he is bad at Dust. Second, we see it in the Gathering Forces trailer. We see the assault suit using a forge gun, seemingly fully animated, although different from how the heavy suit uses a forge gun: http://i.imgur.com/J8npRRN.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/w43Nc3V.jpg Yes, maybe they made custom animations for it just for this video. By why not use a heavy suit to do that? And none of the other in-game footage shows new animations, so it'd be a fairly unique thing in this case. It seems more plausible that they had forge gun animations for the assault suit anyway, in preparation for heavy weapons becoming unrestricted in a future build. Finally, also in the trailer, we see a different setup for the dropsuit screen, which indicates that weapon slots are being reconfigured into H, M, and L slots: http://i.imgur.com/hlvj4J8.jpg A moment later, we see the dropsuit is configured with an assault rifle in the H slot, and a pistol in the M slot. There is also no grenade slot, you may notice. Maybe that's for the L slot? We'll have to wait and see. The executive producer stating you can be a scout running around with a heavy weapon, while the trailer also demonstrated it in a couple ways, indicates that heavy weapons will most likely be made available to every suit. As for balancing it, using a heavy weapon slows you down. Heavy suits are well-suited for these weapons, because being a sitting duck isn't a major limitation for them compared to less durable suits. For example, a scout using a HMG would die very quickly due to how slow said suit would be while firing the HMG or charging the forge gun. Otherwise it's possible additional changes will be made accompanying this change. Perhaps heavies will have a heavy weapon bonus, while these weapons will be otherwise less effective in the hands of other suits? We don't know, not enough info yet. In either case it's a good change. Players should have more options available to them. Having restrictions like "only heavy suits get heavy weapons" are arbitrary and restrict people unnecessarily.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 53	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:05:00 - [22] - Quote I am pretty sure it makes no sense for any other suit to use heavy weapons unless it is designed for it. Physically the weapons are huge, size fit for a vehicle. So logically would require the strength and energy from a heavy suit to use. Mabey CCP could add a new suit to use heavy weapons, (heavy assuit), that has the strength to carry heavy weapons but none of the armor of a heavy, and intermedate mobility between heavy and assult.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:09:00 - [23] - Quote It's science fiction. How much does a HMG weigh? What's the strength of the engineered clones the mercs in Dust use? If Jesse Ventura could use a mini-gun in Predator, why can't our close use mini-guns in Dust? You need to forget "realism" here, we're talking about stuff in the year 30,000 or whatever. All CCP has to say is that every Dust clone has cybernetically/genetically enhanced strength and endurance, and all of a sudden the normal limitations of humans goes out the window. Although, as mentioned, Jesse Ventura. He didn't have time to bleed, because he was too busy deforesting Guatemala with a HMG.
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 67	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:10:00 - [24] - Quote I don't buy the "need a heavy suit in order to wield such a weapon". Regardless of the class/size of the suit, they are highly advanced and I'm sure all have significant about of muscle/strength augmentation in order to carry the larger weapons, especially since they aren't really that big in the first place. I understand the idea of big suit = big gun, but I don't think it really makes sense. A larger suit will allow you to take more damage, so if you're moving slower, it makes more sense to have one. If you want to wear an assault suit and get killed even faster then go for it.
Brigitte Newt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 25	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:18:00 - [25] - Quote Trevak Shi wrote: NO! A heavy suit was designed to use heavy weapons. An Assault, logi, or even a Scout is NOT DESIGNED to deal with the power, weight, torque, or any of the other factors connected to the operation of such vehicles of destruction. This idea is absurd and should be permanently erased from all of our minds. What made you think that this would be implemented or even be a potentiality? Indeed.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1593	Posted - 2013.01.27 01:40:00 - [26] - Quote I don't see a problem with HMGs being fitted on anything other than a heavy suit. After all, a heavy weapon already takes up a large chunk of CPU/PG and fitting it on something other than a heavy would require the wearer to sacrifice many things including defense modules, damage mods, etc. Basically a glass cannon like the Talos in Eve Online.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:17:00 - [27] - Quote This all sounds fine and dandy until you.run into a team of Scout HMGers. A pack of them running around swarming and annihilating all in there path... No thanks, heavys use heavy weapons, pffft people crying over restrictions. It's called balance for a reason.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:24:00 - [28] - Quote Belzeebub Santana wrote: This all sounds fine and dandy until you.run into a team of Scout HMGers. A pack of them running around swarming and annihilating all in there path... If you came face to face with a scout using an HMG, and you were in an assault suit with an AR, you would be able to kill him before he killed you. The only significant defense that scouts have is their speed. Using an HMG or a forge gun slows you down substantial. The only thing that makes heavies with a HMG dangerous is the fact that they have so much durability. A scout couldn't just stand in place, like an HMG forces you to do essentially, and starting mowing people down like a heavy can. A scout couldn't even do it to one person. I suspect scouts with HMGs will need a different style of play. Presumably if CCP has made this change they've tested it internally. They wouldn't be planning to unrestrict heavy weapons unless they felt the balance was fine. What's more, all you people acting as if this is a crazy idea aren't aware of any other changes that could be accompanying heavy weapons for scouts/etc. Maybe heavy weapons are being nerfed but they're getting a role bonus for use with heavy suits. Or maybe they're actually balanced as-is. Who knows.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:26:00 - [29] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: I think everyone is reading too much in to this. Did you see any heavies at all in the trailer? DId you see any scouts? Did you see anyone in anything other than the standard assault suit? They probably just modeled the one suit for the trailer to save time or something. there was a scout manning the side gun in the drop ship.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.27 03:46:00 - [30] - Quote It was in-game footage. The rendered stuff was at the start and the end, with the EVE-like characters messing about with stellar maps. They also showed off a customized assault rifle in the Gathering Forces trailer. The character with the custom white dropsuit colouration was carrying it. It had a blue/grey/white camouflage pattern to it, and its model may have been different as well. Really, it was a pretty neat video. Drone infestation, heavy weapon changes, weapon customization, possibly the new format for dropsuit customization... interesting stuff.



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