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Zion Shad
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
1620
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Posted - 2013.01.25 00:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
the first part of my in-depth look at DUST 514 Corp battle contracts and the effects it has on Faction Warfare. Please take a look
http://themittani.com/features/dust-gamblers-are-not-mercs |
Deluxe Edition
Like a Boss.
50
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Posted - 2013.01.25 01:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL:DR |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
328
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Posted - 2013.01.25 02:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
While FW is broken, it is for the opposite reason you suggest.
The reason it is broken is that, in fact, Corps are unwilling to risk anything to take these systems. They aren't willing to gamble their reputation or ISK on the outcome of the fights, so few fights occur.
You hint at forcing players to enroll in faction warfare yet as had been repeatedly stated we are Mercs. We are in fact supposed to making ISK from these fights not boy scout badges. (neutral LP is possible but reinforcing the broken farming zerg of Eve side seems ill advised at this point)
It's unclear why there isn't a minimum ante.
It's unclear why the Attacker is publicly known. Corps can then duck matches that they might lose.
It's unclear why the Attacker doesn't automatically win after a set period of time. This would motivate players on third party contract, with say the Gallente empire, to show up to Defend.
Eve and Dust514 are about risk. Game designs that don't reinforce and reward that risk taking are broken.
Quote:At its core DUST 514 is all about risk. When you jump into battle and face off against the enemy, the confrontation becomes infinitely more real and engaging if you are putting something meaningful on the line; a victory becomes sweeter and the taste of defeat all the more bitter. Think of the feeling you get when you play poker for matchsticks versus the feeling you get when you play for cold, hard cash.
-CCP Commander Wang
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Zion Shad
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
1620
|
Posted - 2013.01.27 23:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
While FW is broken, it is for the opposite reason you suggest.
The reason it is broken is that, in fact, Corps are unwilling to risk anything to take these systems. They aren't willing to gamble their reputation or ISK on the outcome of the fights, so few fights occur.
Most players of DUST have no Idea they are taking anything TBH. There is no system in Dust showing them the effect they have on EVE. Show me a Star map on here, tell me the collateral for a contract is not more then the reward.
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:You hint at forcing players to enroll in faction warfare yet as had been repeatedly stated we are Mercs. We are in fact supposed to making ISK from these fights not boy scout badges. (neutral LP is possible but reinforcing the broken farming zerg of Eve side seems ill advised at this point)
Forcing? Never, but given a choice would help. How about allowing Dust Mercs a FW Option where they can choose to join a FW side for a incentive or they can choose to remain Free Agents to the highest bidder. This would bring forth more fight.
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:It's unclear why there isn't a minimum ante.
It's unclear why the Attacker is publicly known. Corps can then duck matches that they might lose.
It's unclear why the Attacker doesn't automatically win after a set period of time. This would motivate players on third party contract, with say the Gallente empire, to show up to Defend.
the Minimum ante you can choose if 100k (though it show it goes down to 50k) and the rest of your points are sound.
Quote:[FEEDBACK] The current Dust FW System: Needs more player incentives
Update: We will be adding more features to the Factional Warfare system in DUST in the next update, and we will discuss these features in more detail in a dev blog on this topic.
-CCP Commander Wang
[/quote] |
R F Gyro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
315
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Posted - 2013.01.27 23:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fix it like this. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2013.01.28 01:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like the talk they already had about changing FW contract system. I hope they go for the changes they talked about in irc. |
Three Double-A Batteries
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
41
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Posted - 2013.01.28 01:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Funny comments. E.g.
"It's like the game was designed by someone who has never played an FPS but forgot everything they ever knew about EVE." |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.28 01:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm fairly certain he's just blogging. If you know anything about the Mittani, you'll know he is a disseminator of disinformation, with all the intention of influencing the masses into making decision that help him or his goals in the long run. Months or even years may pass before he see's the fruits of his labor, but he is more than willing to wait for them. Intelligent guy, that one. Ruthless, but intelligent. 
edit: P.S. Dust is still in Beta; this information is based on the current state of the game rather than a future state that may or may not be intended to be in place.
Also, the Mittani often does things that benefit others unintentionally or intentionally, and for no discernible reason. He is a bit enigmatic that way, and by that, I mean essentially unknowable. It is hard to understand his true motivations, being much easier to just accept that nothing is what it appears to be coming from him. |
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
53
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
It does seem very odd that fleet warfare that most benefits eve players least benefits dust players because its a crap-shot at wining a million, and the gear used to win the million is likely more than a million. So lose isk either way to help eve players at no reward.
I would say the current random matches should dictate FW, and one should be able to form teams comprised of multiple squads, same rewards.
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Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
328
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Posted - 2013.01.28 02:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zion Shad wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
While FW is broken, it is for the opposite reason you suggest.
The reason it is broken is that, in fact, Corps are unwilling to risk anything to take these systems. They aren't willing to gamble their reputation or ISK on the outcome of the fights, so few fights occur.
Most players of DUST have no Idea they are taking anything TBH. There is no system in Dust showing them the effect they have on EVE. Show me a Star map on here, tell me the collateral for a contract is not more then the reward. Telcontar Dunedain wrote:You hint at forcing players to enroll in faction warfare yet as had been repeatedly stated we are Mercs. We are in fact supposed to making ISK from these fights not boy scout badges. (neutral LP is possible but reinforcing the broken farming zerg of Eve side seems ill advised at this point) Forcing? Never, but given a choice would help. How about allowing Dust Mercs a FW Option where they can choose to join a FW side for a incentive or they can choose to remain Free Agents to the highest bidder. This would bring forth more fight. Telcontar Dunedain wrote:It's unclear why there isn't a minimum ante.
It's unclear why the Attacker is publicly known. Corps can then duck matches that they might lose.
It's unclear why the Attacker doesn't automatically win after a set period of time. This would motivate players on third party contract, with say the Gallente empire, to show up to Defend. the Minimum ante you can choose if 100k (though it show it goes down to 50k) and the rest of your points are sound. Quote:[FEEDBACK] The current Dust FW System: Needs more player incentives
Update: We will be adding more features to the Factional Warfare system in DUST in the next update, and we will discuss these features in more detail in a dev blog on this topic. -CCP Commander Wang
[/quote]
1. CCP has said they are developing a more graphic presentation of the FW battles. The rather bad star map was removed I believe in anticipation of that.
2. We need a minimum bid of say 2m (which is what the 8 people on each side made in their last public hisec match) at least to participate in FW. It's a joke that districts flip with 100k contracts.
3. Risk is what this game is about. We need more of it not less. I don't at all like your gambling metaphor because it overlooks that inherent part of the game design.
Combat is always a risk but only a "gamble" if you can't expect to beat most of your opponents.
The current FW system was designed as just a sad consensual PVP.
4. Without some benefit to actually joining a faction it's useless to Dust players.
I think that 2 sided Faction warfare is broken in almost every game. Having Dust players join the winzerg on one side or the other just seems to make it worse for the problems Eve already has.
Making us mercs gives us and the Eve FW more options for playing. In the future perhaps there is a place for joining up but for now,
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2013.01.28 03:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Districts need "ownership stamps" for the corp that won.
Therefor if i take a caldari contract and attack X district and win i now "own" that district in the name of the caldari militia and would thus be given a passive ISK bonus to the corp wallet per day after every DT
This would FORCE corps that claimed X district to have to fight and defend it or give up that passive income. How the battles should take place? idk some form of reinforcement timer is needed so corps dont just attack at some random ass hour.
Also as a district "owner" i should be able to setup WHO i want to be able to accept a defense contract if we are being attacked. Whether i want to allow randoms to fill the spots via the merc tab or if i just want my corp or alliance mates only to access the defense contract
This is what im lookin forward to in DUST, this consensual PvP i can do in other games and is nothing special atm in DUST. I got into DUST for the territorial conquest battles and waiting till nullsec to introduce any form of that whether lite or complex will be a fail |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
360
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Posted - 2013.01.28 03:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Current FW/Corp Battles were launched inittally as a test to see if the system worked. they were kept so corps would have something to do while the devs built the next itteration of that system, when it is done and ready for testing we will get it, until then we have what we have.
Do I think corps having to pay to fight someone else's fight is a good thing, no. do I think it's a good test of a system, yes.
I expect the next itteration of the system to be different, and the one after that, I expect in the end EVE FW corps will put up contracts, they will pay the fee, and then they get a group of mercs to fight that battle, be it thru individual merc contracts or corp contracts, where the winner of the battle gets the cash and the FW milita corp gets the points in the system.
I have a problem with threads like this, because you all assume this is the end design, and not a test system that comes before the first itteration. This is a Beta, we Test things.
Do everyone a favor before you complain about something currently in Dust atm, look at it, then ask your self is this a Final feature, then look that the center top of your tv where it says this is a beta and not a final product and assume that it's a test and not a final feature. When you have done that come to the forums and ask Where can this sytem go from here, not this feature sucks because... |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2013.01.28 03:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:fanboi++++
(2013-01-27 6:58:02 PM) Telc: i think noone assumes this is the end design
(2013-01-27 6:58:11 PM) Telc: or we would just leave and stop playing ;) |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
360
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Posted - 2013.01.28 03:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
hmmm fanboi, nope.
somone who understands design and production, yes
Do I like the Way CCP operates, sure.
:P |
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