DUST Search - DISCUSS: Best sp cap implementation

SoTa PoP wrote:

xAckie wrote:

Laurent Cazaderon wrote:

You're absolutely incapable of being objective at all....
You sound like a guy who just cant wait to grind like hell.

And regarding the "after a certain point it wont matter" it's wrong. Future extensions will bring new skills, new layer of gameplays linked to those. Also, cap is protecting the life span of the game. As long as there are things to do, people tend to stick to the game.

Cap is needed. Now the real thing to look for is how hard you have to work to get to it. And how much you can get back of it later if you dont. Best of both worlds.

I didn't get aggressive or personal. Dont know why you are.

I I wont be grinding like hell at all. In my view I am being objective.

I am not worried about 'falling behind' like the rest of you. I havent paid for boosters etc in this game. Thus, I have been behind lots of people in SP in this game due to that and not playing every day. So what if I am behind.

removing the cap will destroy and completely maim and confuse the casuals as they contemplate why CCP hates them so. And makes boosters worthwhile (money for CCP).

Edit for truth. You can call my lawyer if this leads to any legal issues I'm not aware of. Bear

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Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:49:00 - [1] - Quote So, instead of total removal of sp cap, the devs are leaving it up to us to come up with the best idea. So, here are their aims: 1. Steady pace progression 2. Disincentivise 24/7 grinding 3. Maintain a manageable gap between casual and harcore players So, with these three in mind.....let's discuss and figure out the best implementation of the sp cap.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:58:00 - [2] - Quote At this moment, a daily skill cap will only work if there is a rollover and if the softcap is raised to at least 500 sps a game. Noone wants to play a game and feel like it isn't worth it. The weekly cap works as well too....I think we all got accustomed to it
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:00:00 - [3] - Quote I had an implant-based idea, that let the individual choose whether to grind out SP a little longer, or take it easy with more EVE-like passive training. >Base change: change the cap to "full" matches played (at least 1min on the ground, and reached the end-game screen) instead of a total SP cap. Rewards putting more effort in the time you have. >Player option 1: Implant that greatly increases passive SP generation, but reduces the match-reward cap. Allows a player to focus on learning the game and having a good time. >Player option 2: Implant that increases the number of matches to recieve SP in, but reduces passive SP gain. Highest potential SP totals, but you have to constantly win to get it. Good for the highly-competitive, or well-ironed, well-funded corps. To address the "selling points" of OP: 1. With player skill curve charts in hand, this system can be tweaked to a happy medium between the two options. 2. With a matches-played cap, the focus of the player isn't to play a lot, but to play well. 3. "Hardcore" players will pick option 2. As their potential SP is higher, they may pull ahead of casual players somewhat. "Casual" players will likely take option 1. As their gain is steadier, they aren't at a great disadvantage at a given character-age. There is a gap slightly preferring hardcore players, but casual types can still get their feet wet without having them being so easily bitten off.
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 172	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:06:00 - [4] - Quote A rollover system would work well.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:12:00 - [5] - Quote Every Single SP Cap Thread Has Said The Same Thing. Roll-over cap appeases both sides and works well for all. Just do it CCP so we can move on to new toys. :D
Andrea Auroras Celtic Anarchy 7	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:12:00 - [6] - Quote Rollover.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote Remove the cap. You cant solve the problem of some players being ahead of the others, in 2 months time your character will be built it wont matter. boosters may become worth it. If you get panic attacks from feeling like you need to play Dust to grind I suggest you get out more.
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion 38	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:16:00 - [8] - Quote Casting my vote for the "Rolling 7 day SP cap". With the SP capped at 300-400 per match once you hit the cap
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:21:00 - [9] - Quote you have a rolling back log of a week, if its not practical to have daily rolling deletion make it delete one week every two, that way those who can't play at the end of the week aren't penalized, the daily players have something to play for. simple and effective. tho there is still the problem of longer then week absences, I mean I guess just eat it but that means most military members are SOL, with eve you just save your long skills for deployments, with dust... well you get the idea, it would be nice to have a hiatus mode that gives you like half your active but only functions when inabled for longer then two weeks, or maybe give you a set amount of time to catch up on those.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:22:00 - [10] - Quote To me this can be achieved through : 1) A cap so the max evolution of characters are under control 2) A way to reach the cap that's based on players' efficiency and isnt too easy, or to exploitable to reach 3) A roll over system that would make the cap bigger for players starting late. I'll just add that i dont have any problem falling behind in SP as long as it's kinda under control, like it was with weekly cap (even though it wasnt perfect with the lame diminishing returns that made reaching 80% of the cap way too fast) A weekly cap could fill out that purpose if it was reached through hard work. A good way to do that would be to lower the AFK SP thing like i suggested earlier. Invested players would thus create a gap week after week in a controlled way. Rewarding them with early skilling when a casual would maybe reach 70% of the cap on a good week. Over a week, a hard player earning 190040 SP compared to a more casual player getting between 100-150k sounds reasonable enough. Yes those hard dudes would still play games with 50 SP reward in the end but i guess it's more acceptable knowing that most people didnt get the full cap. Weekly also fixes the "can only play 2-3 days" problem. Add to that a 50% bonus in SP cap for as long as you are below the average SP in the community and you have something that may be pretty ok for the entire player base. There's a difference between increasing the gap by several hundred K SP every week and that isnt it ? THat's what i'd call balance.

Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:25:00 - [11] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: Every Single SP Cap Thread Has Said The Same Thing. Roll-over cap appeases both sides and works well for all. Just do it CCP so we can move on to new toys. :D This x 9000
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:30:00 - [12] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Every Single SP Cap Thread Has Said The Same Thing. Roll-over cap appeases both sides and works well for all. Just do it CCP so we can move on to new toys. :D This x 9000 but all this says to me is that an individual is worried about falling behind and not getting some extra SP because they couldn't play an extra hour or two. Sp wont matter so much after a certain base level surely. A cap just annoys the casuals.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:33:00 - [13] - Quote There's another side to this: Faith. People are going to come into this game - notice it's lack of EVEYRTHING, then notice how unhappy we are over the SP, then in turn become unhappy themselves right from the get go. It might seem shallow but CCP is running a business. There best option is to appease us without damning there own intentions. A roll-over cap will make everyone feel like there's a chance to catch up - something to gain. There's just too much missing right now to let this be another blow to the fun factor of the game. CCP can change it again later on when the topic isn't so hot and the skill book tree is more filled out and we all better understand CCP's idea of 7 year progression and what will honestly be available to us. But for now - it's making many many people very very unhappy. Bad business.
Alantir Kavees Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.01.22 11:37:00 - [14] - Quote I would like to see just a top cap, ie, "max total amount of SP acquired" cap (current daily cap multiplied by the number of days since last reset). Players with lots of time and play every day wouldn't be able to get past that top cap, and others would catch up at their own pace. That also would benefit players joining Dust in the future, as any other kind of cap would hurt them badly.
Minmatar Slave 74136 Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:00:00 - [15] - Quote rollover
Jay Sterling IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 13	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:01:00 - [16] - Quote xAckie wrote: Remove the cap. You cant solve the problem of some players being ahead of the others, in 2 months time your character will be built it wont matter. boosters may become worth it. If you get panic attacks from feeling like you need to play Dust to grind I suggest you get out more. There needs to be some sort of cap - even if it's watered-down - like the rollover idea above. If there wasn't a cap, some people would get addicted. That would be very bad indeed - use your imagination to think of all the consequences!
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:06:00 - [17] - Quote xAckie wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Every Single SP Cap Thread Has Said The Same Thing. Roll-over cap appeases both sides and works well for all. Just do it CCP so we can move on to new toys. :D This x 9000 but all this says to me is that an individual is worried about falling behind and not getting some extra SP because they couldn't play an extra hour or two. Sp wont matter so much after a certain base level surely. A cap just annoys the casuals. You're absolutely incapable of being objective at all.... You sound like a guy who just cant wait to grind like hell. And regarding the "after a certain point it wont matter" it's wrong. Future extensions will bring new skills, new layer of gameplays linked to those. Also, cap is protecting the life span of the game. As long as there are things to do, people tend to stick to the game. Cap is needed. Now the real thing to look for is how hard you have to work to get to it. And how much you can get back of it later if you dont. Best of both worlds.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:16:00 - [18] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: You're absolutely incapable of being objective at all.... You sound like a guy who just cant wait to grind like hell. And regarding the "after a certain point it wont matter" it's wrong. Future extensions will bring new skills, new layer of gameplays linked to those. Also, cap is protecting the life span of the game. As long as there are things to do, people tend to stick to the game. Cap is needed. Now the real thing to look for is how hard you have to work to get to it. And how much you can get back of it later if you dont. Best of both worlds. I didn't get aggressive or personal. Dont know why you are. I I wont be grinding like hell at all. In my view I am being objective. I am not worried about 'falling behind' like the rest of you. I havent paid for boosters etc in this game. Thus, I have been behind lots of people in SP in this game due to that and not playing every day. So what if I am behind. removing the cap will benefit the casuals. And makes boosters worthwhile (money for CCP).
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:23:00 - [19] - Quote xAckie wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: You're absolutely incapable of being objective at all.... You sound like a guy who just cant wait to grind like hell. And regarding the "after a certain point it wont matter" it's wrong. Future extensions will bring new skills, new layer of gameplays linked to those. Also, cap is protecting the life span of the game. As long as there are things to do, people tend to stick to the game. Cap is needed. Now the real thing to look for is how hard you have to work to get to it. And how much you can get back of it later if you dont. Best of both worlds. I didn't get aggressive or personal. Dont know why you are. I I wont be grinding like hell at all. In my view I am being objective. I am not worried about 'falling behind' like the rest of you. I havent paid for boosters etc in this game. Thus, I have been behind lots of people in SP in this game due to that and not playing every day. So what if I am behind. removing the cap will destroy and completely maim and confuse the casuals as they contemplate why CCP hates them so. And makes boosters worthwhile (money for CCP). Edit for truth. You can call my lawyer if this leads to any legal issues I'm not aware of.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:25:00 - [20] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: xAckie wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: You're absolutely incapable of being objective at all.... You sound like a guy who just cant wait to grind like hell. And regarding the "after a certain point it wont matter" it's wrong. Future extensions will bring new skills, new layer of gameplays linked to those. Also, cap is protecting the life span of the game. As long as there are things to do, people tend to stick to the game. Cap is needed. Now the real thing to look for is how hard you have to work to get to it. And how much you can get back of it later if you dont. Best of both worlds. I didn't get aggressive or personal. Dont know why you are. I I wont be grinding like hell at all. In my view I am being objective. I am not worried about 'falling behind' like the rest of you. I havent paid for boosters etc in this game. Thus, I have been behind lots of people in SP in this game due to that and not playing every day. So what if I am behind. removing the cap will destroy and completely maim and confuse the casuals as they contemplate why CCP hates them so. And makes boosters worthwhile (money for CCP). Edit for truth. You can call my lawyer if this leads to any legal issues I'm not aware of. Lol

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:53:00 - [21] - Quote Sp cap will annoy most people as it has for most of that joined this game. But we stayed and have accepted it because we believe in Dust's potential. But we will be a minority.....dust won't survive if we can't attract new players and keep them. I understand the reasoning for the sp cap. The only one I agree with is the one about prolonging the game's longevity. The complaints about ensuring everyone is the same level are just QQ excuses. Eventually, everyone will be able on the same level. Not to mention, it will not take 7 years to max out your main specialty plus there will be more to do in this game besides grinding sp. Mining, corp battles, conquering and defending territory, etc. Now, if there is, definitely, going to be an sp cap...we just need to implement it to appease both sides of the equation. We need more than a simple "rollover". Rollover is good for people that can't play everyday. What about those people that play for longer than 5 games?? Rollover isn't good enough....there needs to be a minimum softcap of at least 500 per match (without booster, if possible). I think that is the only answer to appease everyone with a daily cap.
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion 50	Posted - 2013.01.22 12:54:00 - [22] - Quote I honestly feel that the biggest difficulty in discussing the SP cap is the lack of any real matchmaking in this game. A lot of arguments about it seem to be about balancing player skill, which shouldn't be the responsibility of SP control alone. For what it's worth I think that the best option right now is a rollover system. Not because this is necessarily the best in every circumstance but because open beta is still beta. We are still testing and instituting a less easily controlled system is a bigger risk. How would you feel if CCP instituted a no cap system and then a couple of months later had to re-neg on its "no more wipes" statement due to game imbalance, I imagine the fallout would be worst amongst the grinders (who are the most active players and the people buying boosters, etc). On the other hand server numbers and active players are good for the game. I would like to see rollover reflect this. At the moment a rolllover system would have to take into account the fact that you can only rollover so much SP before it becomes physically impossible to play that much dust. Furthermore unlimited rollover is essentially identical to having a maximum for SP on each character depending on when that character was created. Consequently I would rather a rollover system where SP is still a daily affair and only part of the un-earnt SP for that day is rolled over (promoting player activity on a daily basis). I would also recommend that the rollover SP should be capped at no more than one week's accrued SP (for example if only half SP were rolled over then the adjusted daily cap could never rise above 108,000 without booster).
Leviticus Krauthammer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2013.01.22 13:13:00 - [23] - Quote I only play a few times a week. I didn't even bother to max out SP everyday. People complained when there was a weekly cap. People p*ssed their pants on the daily cap. I say just get rid of the cap entirely and keep it that way. This will allow the weekend warriors a chance to get plenty of SP that they didn't receive during the week. If people choose to play 10 hours a day for seven days a week, I say let them. The fact is some people will have more SP and some will have less. There is nothing that CCP can do about it no matter how they decide to do it. Just my 4800 AUR
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2013.01.22 13:24:00 - [24] - Quote I think its less of a problem of daily cap or rollover (the old weekly cap, was essentially a daily cap with rollover) The problem (imo) is the fact that the cap is a HARD cap. You effectively earn nothing once its hit. Go back to the old weekly rollover, use the same cap we have now. (linear sp earning until you hit cap) However, instead of dropping to 50sp once cap is reached, player earns 20% of what they would have earned. (boosters would add to this) This disincentivises players from grinding because of diminished returned, BUT gives them enough to feel like they still get SOMETHING out of grinding. (especially if they buy an active booster)
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.22 13:38:00 - [25] - Quote Best SP cap is to abolish active SP.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2281	Posted - 2013.01.22 13:40:00 - [26] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: Every Single SP Cap Thread Has Said The Same Thing. Roll-over cap appeases both sides and works well for all. Just do it CCP so we can move on to new toys. :D This x 9000
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 2	Posted - 2013.01.22 14:10:00 - [27] - Quote What do people thing of an SP cap based off the age of the character?
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.22 14:12:00 - [28] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: I think its less of a problem of daily cap or rollover (the old weekly cap, was essentially a daily cap with rollover) The problem (imo) is the fact that the cap is a HARD cap. You effectively earn nothing once its hit. Go back to the old weekly rollover, use the same cap we have now. (linear sp earning until you hit cap) However, instead of dropping to 50sp once cap is reached, player earns 20% of what they would have earned. (boosters would add to this) This disincentivises players from grinding because of diminished returned, BUT gives them enough to feel like they still get SOMETHING out of grinding. (especially if they buy an active booster) This is probably the best and most ideal daily cap idea. I was actually coming on here cause I just thought of a soft cap with 25% earnings. But 20% is fine as well Returns are severely diminished yet you still feel like you're working towards something if you keep playing


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