DUST Search - dust needs a respec system

semperfi1999 wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Respec in a game about choices and consequences is simply a poor mechanic. Making it AUR only is even worse as that pushes the P2W side of things.

If this option is included choices cease to have a real implication you simply alter them as you desire. Want to solo for a day? Sure respec into it, want to go Heavy for awhile yup why not? Feel like using up all that salvage? Sure let's just respect into each specialized area to use the proto salvage until it runs out then swap to the next one. Nothing like that free proto ride. And when you run out of the pure proto from salvage? Sure just respec into support/core skills and run free fits until you have more free proto salvage.

Adding this option would ruin the player market as well as increase the "flavor of the month" build/exploits.
Furthermore there needs to be a certain degree of parity between both games in New Eden, and adding respec in fails to meet this bar.

-1 to respec

0.02 ISK
Cross

You act like everythin you said is an issue........who cares if someone does this they will be spending alot of money for all of the respecs. I am fine with that. Its not pay 2 win its just pay to fix my stupid mistake.

Reimus Klinsman wrote:

Respec is an awful idea and will result in a loss of money. If people could respec, it'd take just a few months to max out the SP you need for a build, then when you want to switch builds you just respec and you're set.

The lifetime of the game would be shortened from several years to a few months.

It will cheapen the game. Learn to live with your mistakes.

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Carl Hauser 2100381593 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 46	Posted - 2013.01.22 08:37:00 - [31] - Quote I see the point for a respec especially as long as not all skills beeing implemented. There is so much more to come like racial dropsuits, racial weapons etc. So actually its quite easy to put your SP in the wrong direction as not all the cool stuff is implemented. This gets worse due to the slow progression with the current SP caps and SP system. But this has great potential for abuse, if you just can respec for certain battle situations. In my opinion the abuse potential outweights the benefit. If they ever implement a respec mechanism they should limit this to once per year or once per 6 month. But generally I don't think a respec option is a good Idea....
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.22 08:47:00 - [32] - Quote Carl Hauser 2100381593 wrote: I see the point for a respec especially as long as not all skills beeing implemented. There is so much more to come like racial dropsuits, racial weapons etc. So actually its quite easy to put your SP in the wrong direction as not all the cool stuff is implemented. This gets worse due to the slow progression with the current SP caps and SP system. But this has great potential for abuse, if you just can respec for certain battle situations. In my opinion the abuse potential outweights the benefit. If they ever implement a respec mechanism they should limit this to once per year or once per 6 month. But generally I don't think a respec option is a good Idea.... Once per year, maybe. but even then I look upon this idea as having dubious value. if CCP allowed this once per year, I would say you get to pick five skills to dump and re-allocate. that'd about put it on the level of an EVE remap. But I find it dubious because there is no such thing as a useless skill in either game. all of them do relevant and useful things so there is no "wasted SP"
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.24 05:06:00 - [33] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Respec in a game about choices and consequences is simply a poor mechanic. Making it AUR only is even worse as that pushes the P2W side of things. If this option is included choices cease to have a real implication you simply alter them as you desire. Want to solo for a day? Sure respec into it, want to go Heavy for awhile yup why not? Feel like using up all that salvage? Sure let's just respect into each specialized area to use the proto salvage until it runs out then swap to the next one. Nothing like that free proto ride. And when you run out of the pure proto from salvage? Sure just respec into support/core skills and run free fits until you have more free proto salvage. Adding this option would ruin the player market as well as increase the "flavor of the month" build/exploits. Furthermore there needs to be a certain degree of parity between both games in New Eden, and adding respec in fails to meet this bar. -1 to respec 0.02 ISK Cross You act like everythin you said is an issue........who cares if someone does this they will be spending alot of money for all of the respecs. I am fine with that. Its not pay 2 win its just pay to fix my stupid mistake. Sure do, because it is but since it's now been said in this thread I'll just quote Reimus Klinsman wrote: Respec is an awful idea and will result in a loss of money. If people could respec, it'd take just a few months to max out the SP you need for a build, then when you want to switch builds you just respec and you're set. The lifetime of the game would be shortened from several years to a few months. It will cheapen the game. Learn to live with your mistakes.
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2013.01.24 05:28:00 - [34] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Lochlorn423 wrote: In the EVE universe you are always accountable for your own actions. Welp for starters we are Dust Mercs and we are clones. So if they can have consciousness transfers at the time of death, I cant see why at the time of death we cant respec into something different. OMG! We have technology to live forever but we cant respec. Technology to live forever, but not technology to transform my knowledge about advanced Amarran armor systems into the know-how for Minmatar repair tools and Gallente pistols. Also, as someone said before, if you can't spec into 'Scrambler Rifles' or whatever the new thing is, NEITHER CAN ANYONE ELSE. Earn the right to use them like anyone else will be doing.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.01.24 09:39:00 - [35] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: Lochlorn423 wrote: In the EVE universe you are always accountable for your own actions. Welp for starters we are Dust Mercs and we are clones. So if they can have consciousness transfers at the time of death, I cant see why at the time of death we cant respec into something different. OMG! We have technology to live forever but we cant respec. Technology to live forever, but not technology to transform my knowledge about advanced Amarran armor systems into the know-how for Minmatar repair tools and Gallente pistols. Also, as someone said before, if you can't spec into 'Scrambler Rifles' or whatever the new thing is, NEITHER CAN ANYONE ELSE. Earn the right to use them like anyone else will be doing. Exactly Harpuia. Our knowledge retention and ability to transfer to another clone on death is the power. That knowledge comes from experience, good or bad, and is not something that can be simply relearned in a different area at the clink of money.
Crazy Mistah Jay Prima Gallicus 11	Posted - 2013.01.24 17:11:00 - [36] - Quote I think the respec system is a good idea, maybe if you give ISK for this, and if you have played a lot of times in the game (have 1 million for the first total SP respec, 2,5 millions for the second, 4 millions for the third... and just give ISK for respec one skill, but only used once per month for this "only one skill respec"), because, guys like us (beta testers since the beginning of the closed beta) have testing a lot of objects, so, when we have got the last reset, we have put SP on the weapons skills we wants used, but new players don't know they wants used if they haven't tested before, so they need to put SP for testing this weapons, and for all players, new weapons will released (ex : Amarr Scrambler Rifle, Minmattar Flaylock Pistol, or Gallente Plasma Cannon), so, if we wants used it, we needs to have the skills (so SP), but if we see we don't want used them after testing, if we have no respec, we lost the points spends.
Snaps Tremor Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 41	Posted - 2013.01.24 18:14:00 - [37] - Quote How about the only way to respec is to 'buy' out of something. No instant fix, and no way to exploit it, as you'd just be blowing SP you could have otherwise used to skill up further. The feature is in there for OCD types who want the Perfect Build, and you would be able to set a skill you don't want to erase itself using passive SP while you're away, but it's not going to be touched by 99% of people who just want more things faster. You could also give a small percentage of skill back on unlearning as a consolation prize.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2013.01.24 19:04:00 - [38] - Quote Snaps Tremor wrote: How about the only way to respec is to 'buy' out of something. No instant fix, and no way to exploit it, as you'd just be blowing SP you could have otherwise used to skill up further. The feature is in there for OCD types who want the Perfect Build, and you would be able to set a skill you don't want to erase itself using passive SP while you're away, but it's not going to be touched by 99% of people who just want more things faster. You could also give a small percentage of skill back on unlearning as a consolation prize. In Dust the perfect build is tier V in everything That should keep the OCDers happy for a wee while.
Snaps Tremor Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 41	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:15:00 - [39] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Snaps Tremor wrote: How about the only way to respec is to 'buy' out of something. No instant fix, and no way to exploit it, as you'd just be blowing SP you could have otherwise used to skill up further. The feature is in there for OCD types who want the Perfect Build, and you would be able to set a skill you don't want to erase itself using passive SP while you're away, but it's not going to be touched by 99% of people who just want more things faster. You could also give a small percentage of skill back on unlearning as a consolation prize. In Dust the perfect build is tier V in everything That should keep the OCDers happy for a wee while. In 2019.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:19:00 - [40] - Quote Really? There are honestly this many people that actually think this isn't a terrible idea? Ok... So you want to offer an option for people to pay real money to correct cockups in their SP application while people who can't afford that are stuck? I wish you guys were still around when all the P2W threads were all over the place. And yes, this is a game based in the same universe as EVE, and I think your skill upgrades being permanent is an important factor in making all of your choices have an impact, so you aren't just speccing into things willy nilly and then spending a few dollars to fix your stupid mistakes. I've trained many skills to at least 3 in EVE that I never use, and probably never would have needed, but they seemed like a good idea at a time. That's just part of the game. Give it up. This is a bad idea, and no amount of sugar coating will change that.

Montezumas Revenge the majestic space duck MIGHTY PUBLORD OF BROHAN 10	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:27:00 - [41] - Quote I feel like the obvious solution is to offer 1 respec/skill remap after open beta.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:38:00 - [42] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Plus flavor of the month does not exsist in Corp battles...period. all specs are needed no I win button. I also -1 respec It would cause FOTM issues. I very much like the consequences of having to slowly build your fits one after another. If there were respeccing everyone would respec fully into each type of build day by day. Boring and VERY annoying.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.01.24 20:42:00 - [43] - Quote While a respec option would help with newberries blundering through their character creation (a lot of them might not realize how long 300k takes to accumulate) it's going to help the vets out more in the end, since we'll just respec our millions of total SP into the best new skills as they become available. Also, if you play long enough, that skill you trained and then ignored might eventually come in handy.
I HateMyFace BetaMax. 13	Posted - 2013.01.29 17:34:00 - [44] - Quote Guess I didn't look it that way
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2013.01.29 18:42:00 - [45] - Quote Hahaha. EvEtards will be EvEtards. They won't tell you that once per year CCP allow them to change their attributes to suit them. Attributes -> skill points. I don't see any problem with a once per year reset for partial skills. I would suggest only passive SP could be reallocated/remapped. Boosters should have zero effect on this amount. Having a partial reallocation once per year seems like a sensible idea. I don't understand why everyone wants to pay, I'd quite like 1 a year, without paying. So, why would this be a bad thing?
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:08:00 - [46] - Quote My points above on post #13 are still valid. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=481392#post481392 BTW, does anyone know how skill spikes are supposed to work? Perhaps it creates the same effect, like: - Skill Spike '7-day Heavy suit L5' 1000 AUR - Skill Spike '1-day Assault Rifle L5' 200 AUR - Skill Spike '7-day Caldari Dropship L5' 1000 AUR If that's the case there would be no room for respeccing thingy.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2013.01.29 19:39:00 - [47] - Quote No respec. Never. NO. It's not needed. Just use your new SP to spec into a different role. Over time you'll have all the specs your could every want anyways. This would make Vet players WAY too powerful.
YourDeadAgain76 Red Star. 133	Posted - 2013.01.29 20:13:00 - [48] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Yup and there might be 5000 people who like that, but the problem comes in when the decision doesn't exsist yet...I cant spec into scrambled rifles yet....and I don't know when they will come and there is so much other content as well...it is stupid business not to offer a respec especially when you could charge some AUR for it. +1 but maybe they would do it if u had to pay a certian amount of AUR for every 1,000 Sp. Heck i dont know haw many times ive wanted to respec.
CoalRunner The Generals 0	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:27:00 - [49] - Quote +1 For respec. This isn't EVE, this is DUST 514. I know the depth of skills aren't like most FPS' out there, and I know that this is meant to be a game that sticks around for a while - not just a shooter you pick up for a while then move on. I know that many people like the idea of having to really 'earn' something by grinding. But I don't believe this game should be only for them. I do believe that a respec option would be a good idea. With the proper limitations (for example, by limiting the frequency of changes, making it an appreciable cost [either AUR or ISK], and even by applying SP penalties) I don't believe that it would make higher level characters more OP'd that they currently would be, and I don't believe it would cause unbalance. The only way to become familiar with a build is to try it out... And the only way to really try something out is by associated skill points to it (some things like the mass driver even require some skills, since they don't have a militia version). I think this game should be something that everyone can play and enjoy (while rewarding those who put the extra thought and time into it).
137H4RGIC WarRavens 26	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:31:00 - [50] - Quote -1 This is a bad idea and you're a bad person for suggesting it and you should feel bad.

137H4RGIC WarRavens 26	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:32:00 - [51] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: -1 This is a bad idea and you're a bad person for suggesting it and you should feel bad. HOWEVER: You -DO- get a Neural Remap in EVE which allows you to reassign your attributes for optimal skill Training. So I think it would not be inconceivable to reclaim the last 500k SP for a high price. But DEFINETELY NOT a complete SP respec.
Tarquin Markel The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative 85	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:46:00 - [52] - Quote Neural Remap = a change in how fast SP accrues. Not the same creature. (You pick the skill, then spend hours/days/weeks/months training it. The speed is incrementally based on attributes.) No respec, please. Given a relatively steady rate of gain with no limit on eventual SP total, I say pick your purchases carefully and save up if you want something new. If there were an overall hard cap, a "max char level," I'd look at it differently, but as it stands you can work your way towards anything you want from anywhere you may happen to be.
137H4RGIC WarRavens 26	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:49:00 - [53] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: Neural Remap = a change in how fast SP accrues. Not the same creature. (You pick the skill, then spend hours/days/weeks/months training it. The speed is incrementally based on attributes.) No respec, please. Given a relatively steady rate of gain with no limit on eventual SP total, I say pick your purchases carefully and save up if you want something new. If there were an overall hard cap, a "max char level," I'd look at it differently, but as it stands you can work your way towards anything you want from anywhere you may happen to be. Agreed, I had been merely stating something as a compromise to be considered. Personally, I love the fact there's no SP reset.
Zooch Cheenie Dark Matter Ops 4	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:54:00 - [54] - Quote -1 here for skill resets. While you can essentially screw up, how badly are you going to screw up your skill placement before you realize what you've done? I don't see many people getting past rank 2 or 3 of a skill without seeing what it is particularly needed for, and in most cases that would probably equate to a value below 50,000 or so which could easily be acquired in a day or two. Since there's no cap on the total SP intended for players to get, a mistake would just be a simple mistake. It's not going to drastically effect you in the long run. Instead it might just take a slightly longer amount of time to get the points you need into something you want. And that skill that you accidentally bought may come in handy whether you anticipate it or not.
Ender Storm Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2013.01.30 01:42:00 - [55] - Quote I would say buck up and htfu and all else. Think about what you want, and do it. Did a mistake? So be it, take it like a man. You cant unlearn something unless you are in eve and you forget to update your clone. Wish I could unlearn my industrial skills sometimes, but then where the consequences of my actions would go? Money reseting SP isnt consequence, its like buying Indulgences that we know are worth naught. Its not a burden but a tax you pay to not have the burden. And EVE universe is like it is just because details like that. Thats my opinion. Things arent pretty, and arent ment to be. PS.: SP gained are hardly a complete waste, especialy on Dust. Will come the day a Patch will come and will nerf A and bump B, and you will thank God and the Leprechauns that you had those points in B already. Especialization is the way to go, but from many especializations come a soldier complete. PS2: respecs are also bad as a game design. Each time a change is on the orizon all the alliances have to have their soldiers train for the new awesome sauce and get ready for the doctrines the military will be employing. Those that fail to catch up have serious disavantages. If respecs were possible Dust would encounter not these obstacles since they could simply respec and be ready. Those obstacles enrich greately the strategical landscape, giving organizations that were underdogs a sudden surge of power until the new balance is reached. Respecs would spoil the game depth big time.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:34:00 - [56] - Quote The problem with a respec system is that people can just buy instant respecs and change the rules for their character as they wish. This isn't desirable.
Herrick Arcos The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 56	Posted - 2013.01.30 04:55:00 - [57] - Quote -1 for respec... Choices have consequences. CCP has always been understanding as far as new skills are concerned and I wouldn't doubt that there will be some form of compensation for such events. Half the adrenaline I get from playing this game comes from the fact that my character and its abilities are all derivative of the CHOICES I have made. Those wasted points into Sniper Rifle will haunt me forever... and that is exactly what makes this game worth playing. Just my opinion.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.01.30 05:16:00 - [58] - Quote While I like respec in SP RPGs like Skyrim and would like to undo some choices I made in Dust, I have to say no to it. I'll just live with my f*** ups and move on. Eventually, all characters will begin to grow wider, not taller. There is no skill limit on characters so you could learn everything if you really wanted to and put in the time needed. Also, CCP gave you slots for 3 characters. Just start another if you feel you really messed up. This does bring up money wasted on boosters if you did just decide to erase a clone. Oh well, that's the risk you take when you buy boosters. Lesson learned, spend your SP more wisely.
Coyskurk 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.01.30 05:38:00 - [59] - Quote Volgair wrote: this is not a nice game, and never should be. if you fugged up you SP input. so be it you'll just have to work into what you actually want over time. besides, if CCP allowed for this you would see too many people gravy training the flavor of the month. Everyone like this post. Seriously.
Coyskurk 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.01.30 05:41:00 - [60] - Quote CoalRunner wrote: +1 For respec. This isn't EVE, this is DUST 514. I know the depth of skills aren't like most FPS' out there, and I know that this is meant to be a game that sticks around for a while - not just a shooter you pick up for a while then move on. I know that many people like the idea of having to really 'earn' something by grinding. But I don't believe this game should be only for them. I do believe that a respec option would be a good idea. With the proper limitations (for example, by limiting the frequency of changes, making it an appreciable cost [either AUR or ISK], and even by applying SP penalties) I don't believe that it would make higher level characters more OP'd that they currently would be, and I don't believe it would cause unbalance. The only way to become familiar with a build is to try it out... And the only way to really try something out is by associated skill points to it (some things like the mass driver even require some skills, since they don't have a militia version). I think this game should be something that everyone can play and enjoy (while rewarding those who put the extra thought and time into it). "This isn't EVE, this is Dust 514" is the exact opposite approach CCP is taking. They're supposed to be a two games in one combo.



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