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Broxx Nexular
Occupational Hazard
Vital Core Exhumers Industrial Coalition
8
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Posted - 2013.01.20 19:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have noticed a large increase in the use of Mass Drivers lately. My issue with this is not based on the idea of "omg its a noob tube", but rather the implementation of "grenade launcher" style weapons currently.
In its current form, the Mass Driver replaces the players primary weapon, I believe this to be a mistake. This creates a system where the player is capable of employing it as a viable primary weapon and can use nanohives to allow themselves plentiful ammunition before needing to resupply from a station. The basic form of this weapon is able to house six rounds in a magazine with 4 total magazines available. Although the weapon does do lower damage than its manually-thrown counterparts, in its basic form, this damage can be increased through skills. In its current form, the MD is capable of viable "spam" fire that is inconsistent with the design of other weapons.
I propose, rather than making the MD a primary weapon. Make it use the equipment slot of a suit, and cut the available ammunition in half. This will put the MD back in line with grenade launcher design. GL's are not meant to be primary weapons, they are weapons of opportunity and area denial. Putting it in the equipment slot will also remove the ability to be almost entirely self-sufficient with it. Requiring that someone using it have available support from other players to keep stocks of ammo. This also helps players be more mindful of when its appropriate to use it since they will still have a primary weapon available such as an AR or LR. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.01.20 23:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
The mass driver is balanced it does a decent amount of damage if it hits you dead on but is abysmal with its splash damage.
Spam fire? Have you used anyother gun? Ar lr smg all of them are spam fired. The mass driver fires slower isnt insta hit and comes with 18 rounds that eat a grenade size chunk of a nano hive.
It is a primary aod aoe weapon... working as intended. |
Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
435
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Posted - 2013.01.20 23:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's projectiles move slowly and has less shots than other weapons.
That means that if you miss one shot, you lost a large portion of your ammunition, as opposed to an AR where if you miss one shot you missed 1/246th of your ammunition or something like that.
It's balanced. It's just that it can kill in the right hands.
And as far as nanohives go, so could everyone else. Snipers carry nanohives, I've seen some laser rifles use them, Swarm Launchers use them. Nanohives give everyone the same benefit, which is ammo. They aren't particularly catered for mass drivers.
Quote:The basic form of this weapon is able to house six rounds in a magazine with 4 total magazines available
That is incorrect. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
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Posted - 2013.01.20 23:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm only seeing one or two every few games. Not sure what you're talking about as far as them being used more often. |
Knarf Black
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
397
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Posted - 2013.01.21 00:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
They're fine. Very situational and skill based. They also do shockingly little damage without skilling. I've pummeled heavies with no luck in previous builds. (Even when they didn't fall through the map.)
I'm just happy to see more and more weapons on the field that aren't GEKs. |
Patoman OfallColors
Angels of Darkness
3
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Posted - 2013.01.21 01:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not every player uses it, I would say at most 1/4 average. Though it is used in equal frequency as anti tank and anti infantry.
One shot one kill is pretty desirable, if rockets were able to be dumb fired i would use those just like I did in early beta. (More frag, no chageup).
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Broxx Nexular
Occupational Hazard
Vital Core Exhumers Industrial Coalition
8
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Posted - 2013.01.21 15:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Balancing, may have been a bad way to word the subject lol
I dont know what fits people are using when employing MD's, but I haven't run into a single one that hasn't killed me in a single direct hit. If they get me with splash damage, sure it doesn't do as much, maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the damage, but considering direct hits have been killing me in a single shot that's still a hefty amount of damage.
Quote:Spam fire? Have you used anyother gun? Ar lr smg all of them are spam fired.
Can you spam fire an AR? sure, does that mean its always effective? hell no. Go ahead and spend a whole match "spam" firing that AR from the hip and then spend a match actually aiming down the sights and taking careful bursts of fire. You'll get very different results, I know this from plenty of experience. My issue is that I haven't seen a single scenario where simply dumping a mag from a MD hasn't resulted in a victory for its user, even when outnumbered.
"Working as intended" doesn't mean much in a beta. Look at rocket launchers. In early beta it was completely viable to spam them against infantry, and it wasn't an exploit, it was "working as intended". However, the devs decided that didn't fit with the flow of gameplay they were looking for, so they changed them. I believe this to be a similar scenario.
Again, I'm not saying remove them, i'm honestly not against their damage model (except possibly lowering direct damage in favor of better AOE since it is supposed to be an area denial weapon after all). I'm only suggesting that they consider the idea that a MD should be a piece of equipment to be used in optimal scenarios rather than a players primary weapon. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2013.01.21 15:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
        
WHAT??!!!! Regardless of your personal opinion, the mass driver is SUPPOSED to be a primary weapon, that is why its a light weapon. There is no problem with it since it is balanced. I strongly propose you try the MD yourself and compare your success with it to your success with the AR before asking for such a radical change.
I'll just copy and paste this:
An assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. A basic variant standard assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range.
Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and there are 6 shots.
In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 < 1860) , and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage. Its a fair trade-off.
I don't get how people can say the mass driver is OP, OP compared to what exactly? Weapons of the same class (light, heavy, sidearm) have to be compared to each other and balanced against each other so that they all have their roles and uses, yet no one can make an argument with math and stats of the mass driver compared to the AR to suggest that the MD is overpowered (I pick AR since its the most used light weapon). It really really bothers me that people whine and complain about the MD, or any other light weapon that cones close to being as good or useful as the AR, the AR isn't suppose to be the only good weapon. People like this really pi$$ me off, and if you are reading this and you're one of these people that want to ruin the MD and turn it into a crappy novelty again, then screw you and go do some math.
I'm sorry if I seem mean, but I'm really defensive of this gun. I have been wanting it to get as good as it is so it would be able to compete with other weapons of its class for a long time; now in this build its finally a viable weapon on par with other light weapons like I always wanted, and now someone is asking it to be downgraded to equipment. |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
264
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Posted - 2013.01.21 15:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
The problem with making it equipment is that it effectively would give you three weapons on an assault or an explosive sidearm on the logi. Logi suits give up our sidearm in favor of the extra equipment slots so having weaponry that takes up an equipment slot is just silly.
Just remember right now anything that nomnomnoms armor seems like its more over powered because we have so few sp. The mass driver gets a bonus to armor damage but a penalty to shield so yes it does kill an armor tank faster than a shield tank and with flux nades its kills anything but then thats just a well built character not op. |
Grendel Aurelius
Prototype Technology Corp.
13
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Posted - 2013.01.21 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Per OP's own admission, his beef with the MD is that it kills him. So it is obviously over powered and needs to be nerfed. |
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Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
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Posted - 2013.01.21 16:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
The blue flash you saw was the flux grenade stripping your shields right before he shot you with the driver for a oneshot.
Mass driver operators with higher IQ than 45 use flux with the drivers for a brutal 1-2 punch.
And if it was a tsunami driver you just got popped by proto weapon. upgrade your suit and modules.
Also please do us the courtesy of telling us what suit you were in when they shot you. the freebie fits you start with have defenses made of toilet paper |
DEADPOOL5241
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
235
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Posted - 2013.01.21 16:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The blue flash you saw was the flux grenade stripping your shields right before he shot you with the driver for a oneshot.
Mass driver operators with higher IQ than 45 use flux with the drivers for a brutal 1-2 punch.
And if it was a tsunami driver you just got popped by proto weapon. upgrade your suit and modules.
Also please do us the courtesy of telling us what suit you were in when they shot you. the freebie fits you start with have defenses made of toilet paper
This just in.. New Player with militia gear gets killed by Mass Driver, due to his low armor and shields. Player then makes QQ thread about MD being OP, even though player has never tried MD and does not know the intelligence required to use MD.
This sum up the aforementioned thread?
End Thread/
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