DUST Search - Community Input Requested: SP Dedication to roll specialization. Time and Advant...

Marston VC wrote:

JL3Eleven wrote:

You realize what you are asking for is a long time away right?

I'm still experiencing the following bugs/glitches:

No Hands glitch
Mail glitch
Select button screen randomly appearing
The sound of constant nonexistant gunfire
Getting dropped from games
The failure of my gun to fire duing gunfights
I got stuck in the map 2 days ago
Saying my gun is reloading but never completes the reload, just reads reloading
and lets not forget the recent lagging in game.

So yea expect to wait a while the basics are still underdevelopment.

No Hands glitch = your connection
nonexistant gunfire = your connection
dropped games = 70% of the time your connection
gun "jams" = your connection
reloading bug= your connection
lag = your connection

Mail glitch = cross connectivity between eve and dust clearly isn't as strong as it should be, so right now there is now way to look at mails sent from eve.
Getting stuck = terrain smoothing bug
select button screen = could be your controller but we can assume it might be a bug as well (ive never had this).

so half of these are things you cant really "fix" from CCP's side, the only thing they can do is to try and "smooth" it out so that when you do lag, its not as annoying. ie: when lagging while someone shoots there gun, make it so that once your connection is strong again that the "nonexistant firing" stops. currently the only way to get it to stop is to ask the person whos gun keeps shooting, to shoot one more time. However that doesn't really fix the lag problem, it just smooths it over so that you notice it less.

as far as the other glitches go they dont really seem like difficult ones to figure out, especially the mailing one, which to me is the MOST annoying considering i have "26 unread mails" in my inbox......

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Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.18 07:26:00 - [1] - Quote First Post While i know the grand majority of weapons, skills, dropsuits, vehicles and modules are not yet in game it feels as though skill progression for specialized roles has been simplified and condensed a bit too far. Skills that feel like they are missing, for currently available gear. -Role bonus skills for dropsuit class to complement Empire specific specialization (IE Logistics Dropsuit Operation , or Assault Dropsuit Proficiency) -Empire specific weapon specialization for all weapon categories (IE Amarr Assault Rifle, Minmatar Forge Gun) -Empire specific hacking protocols -Role bonus skills for vehicle class to complement Empire specific specialization (IE HAV Operation, or Dropship Proficiency) What I am not saying, is what the role bonus should be. If the specialization should entail anything beyond simply making unique equipment available. Or that my way is the only solution. Not even that CCP doesn't have something planed already to address this. What I am saying, is that a dedicated role specialization investment should entail a path lasting more then 7-9 months. (~14.5-18.5mil SP for one weapon, dropsuit, shields, armor and fitting to level 5.) 1 month for every weapon beyond, assuming your regularly capping your active SP income. Especially for a game intended to last at minimum 5 years, and act as a new limb to EVE. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know. I would like to know what others think. Oh yeah, and here is to never getting our SP reset... Again, 5th times the charm. On topic response #1. (You may need to reference Sake Monsters thread below to understand context) Sake's right on the money here, what I am attempting to do is make the community aware that any one role is currently capable of being maximized within 8 months. (effectively by the time this game goes live you will have become as powerful as you can be with any one suit and weapon combination) I would like to know how long the current community feels is adequate for one role to be taken to full potential. mind you that "full potential" means only side grades by way of a different suit and other weapons. i for one would like to see the "core fitting" skill set extended, as well as shield and armor. in addition to those elongate every dropsuit and weapon to a 3 stage progression. On topic response #2. In light of other more pressing threads over the last 3 days I've let this thread slip to page 11. Given said excitement of the last 3 days relating to SP I am hoping to finally get some real community input on this. To do so, I will begin with another example using existing gear to elaborate my point. Realize folks that this is a thought and theory thread dedicated to gaining a community consensus, for "down the line," requests for the DUST Dev team relating to Skill/ Roll Simplification. This is not a thread about ANY specific weapons or their stats, instead the point of this thread, as stated before is SP investment and dedication to specialized functionality. Now that that is out of the way. Let us look at Forge Guns and give each variant to a faction, for the purpose of elaborating my point. Operation- -5% reduction to charge time/level, Profecency- +3% damage/level. Note the operation and proficiency would apply to all of the below equally. The "specialization" given might be trainable at level 3 profecency. Faction--------Variant---------------------Specialization (skill bonus would only apply for faction specific variant) Gallente---- Standard Forge--- -3% charge time/level Minmatar--- Assault Forge----- +1 Round in Mag & +1 round capacity/Level Caldari------ Breach Forge----- LV1 allows you to move at 10% speed while charging & +10% movement speed/ level Amarr------- Stanard Forge---- +5% Splash radius and damage & 10% movement speed while charging/ level Let me know what you think, again not about the weapon changes (which i really do like.) Instead about how you feel about the skill progression as it currently exists.
JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 131	Posted - 2013.01.18 08:03:00 - [2] - Quote You realize what you are asking for is a long time away right? I'm still experiencing the following bugs/glitches: No Hands glitch Mail glitch Select button screen randomly appearing The sound of constant nonexistant gunfire Getting dropped from games The failure of my gun to fire duing gunfights I got stuck in the map 2 days ago Saying my gun is reloading but never completes the reload, just reads reloading and lets not forget the recent lagging in game. So yea expect to wait a while the basics are still underdevelopment.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.18 10:23:00 - [3] - Quote You missed a few, like falling through the map spawning on the CRU, next to alpha on line junction. Its not a bug but the 2 second timer on grenades is all but ruining the pace of combat. I'm not here to talk about DUST's many, many bug's and im here to talk about dust 2 years from now. if we can get back to that it would be appreciated.
TomBrid LS Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 1	Posted - 2013.01.18 10:54:00 - [4] - Quote I totally agree with you Vol, I'd love to see (in the future) each faction having its own unique looking suits and for amarr / minmatar to get their own vehicles instead of just using the gal/cal vehicles, but as for the glitches that were listed I have found that to fix the reloading glitch you just have to witch to your side-arm, not experienced the rest so dunno
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.18 11:23:00 - [5] - Quote Unique skins (hopefully with unique stats) aside, (that should all be available on release, the fact its not yet in game is a bit surprising.) i want to get an opinion on elongating the progression from day one to "fully invested" into any one specific profession. The idea of continued, dedicated improvement is more of a draw to me then side grades. I am assuming the same holds for the rest of you, or at least a good portion of you.
Sev Alcatraz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 185	Posted - 2013.01.19 16:11:00 - [6] - Quote indeed
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 282	Posted - 2013.01.19 17:33:00 - [7] - Quote Volgair wrote: While i know the grand majority of weapons, skills, dropsuits, vehicles and modules are not yet in game it feels as though skill progression for specialized roles has been simplified and condensed a bit too far. Exactly! Deeper, not shallower CCP! You can't compete with the fastfood shooters, be the fine dining restaurant, be the Boutique. IFs the product is good, people will come anyway. You know this with Eve.
Hecarim Van Hohen Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 8	Posted - 2013.01.19 19:02:00 - [8] - Quote I have to agree on this. More depth is required in reasonable time.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.20 11:44:00 - [9] - Quote I'm not done attempting to stress this issue, most players i feel are blinded by current affairs in regards to the state of the game. While that is good in the immediate sense, The universe this game is being merged with does not have an 8 month shelf life. I am looking at Dust after those issues have found a fix, or at least a compromise. the fast food analogy from the poster before me is pretty cleaver and I find myself not only applauding it, but referencing it here. So again, i find myself asking for more, at minimum. Community awareness, and ideally some more input on the subject.
SuperSaiyan4 Gogeta Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.01.20 15:19:00 - [10] - Quote I wholly support this idea...provided that CCP implements the "rollover" and raises the cap so that we coule earn maybe 10- 15k sp per match. It's a good idea, but the sp output would make ppl feel like they've done so much work for so little reward. This could only work if CCP jacked up the sp cap and output so that rapid acquisition of hundreds of thousands of SP can be made possible. I'll imagine that my next statement shall tickle your fancy. Operation, proficiency, specialization, MASTERY!!!!

Sake Monster Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 353	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:08:00 - [11] - Quote So the OP is asking about lengthening the time to specialize into a specific role or weapon, so that 8 months down the road there is little left for someone who wanted 1 specialized character to do. Part of the issue in elongating is that there is only 1 or 2 steps skill-wise to mastering something, operation -> proficiency. They should add a third, "specialization". So a skill tree would go: operation -> proficiency -> specialization And if i added the bonus on, for instance Forge guns (since it is what I use), it could go Operation (-5% charge time for level) Proficiency (+3% damage per level) Specialization (+2% accuracy per level) p.s. Please don't flame for the specialization skill being accuracy this is just one of many options (but I do like accuracy for the spec. skill because it could make a tangible difference that makes it noticeable that you progressed that far. One of my current issues is how everything has been equalized, making the skilling in Dust much less valuable) Finally, skill times levels at operation 2x skill, proficiency 3x, specialization 5x skill So, for Forge Gun Mastery it would look like this: Operations (2x, -5% charge time per level) / Proficiency (3x, +3% Damage per level) / Specialization (5x, +2% accuracy per level) This would allow for a longer skill tree while still feeling the effects of your progression. And I think the "Specialization" levels should really skill something that is a tangible difference maker, like accuracy. Or maybe, as the OP stated, specialization can open you up to mastering the other racial variants of weapons. Basically I think it should be something that signals you have put in the effort to truly specialize in something.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.20 16:21:00 - [12] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: You realize what you are asking for is a long time away right? I'm still experiencing the following bugs/glitches: No Hands glitch Mail glitch Select button screen randomly appearing The sound of constant nonexistant gunfire Getting dropped from games The failure of my gun to fire duing gunfights I got stuck in the map 2 days ago Saying my gun is reloading but never completes the reload, just reads reloading and lets not forget the recent lagging in game. So yea expect to wait a while the basics are still underdevelopment. No Hands glitch = your connection nonexistant gunfire = your connection dropped games = 70% of the time your connection gun "jams" = your connection reloading bug= your connection lag = your connection Mail glitch = cross connectivity between eve and dust clearly isn't as strong as it should be, so right now there is now way to look at mails sent from eve. Getting stuck = terrain smoothing bug select button screen = could be your controller but we can assume it might be a bug as well (ive never had this). so half of these are things you cant really "fix" from CCP's side, the only thing they can do is to try and "smooth" it out so that when you do lag, its not as annoying. ie: when lagging while someone shoots there gun, make it so that once your connection is strong again that the "nonexistant firing" stops. currently the only way to get it to stop is to ask the person whos gun keeps shooting, to shoot one more time. However that doesn't really fix the lag problem, it just smooths it over so that you notice it less. as far as the other glitches go they dont really seem like difficult ones to figure out, especially the mailing one, which to me is the MOST annoying considering i have "26 unread mails" in my inbox......
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.20 23:02:00 - [13] - Quote Sake's right on the money here, what I am attempting to do is make the community aware that any one role is currently capable of being maximized within 8 months. (effectively by the time this game goes live you will have become as powerful as you can be with any one suit and weapon combination) I would like to know how long the current community feels is adequate for one role to be taken to full potential. mind you that "full potential" means only side grades by way of a different suit and other weapons. i for one would like to see the "core fitting" skill set extended, as well as shield and armor. in addition to those elongate every dropsuit and weapon to a 3 stage progression.
JL3Eleven Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 131	Posted - 2013.01.21 05:12:00 - [14] - Quote Marston VC wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: You realize what you are asking for is a long time away right? I'm still experiencing the following bugs/glitches: No Hands glitch Mail glitch Select button screen randomly appearing The sound of constant nonexistant gunfire Getting dropped from games The failure of my gun to fire duing gunfights I got stuck in the map 2 days ago Saying my gun is reloading but never completes the reload, just reads reloading and lets not forget the recent lagging in game. So yea expect to wait a while the basics are still underdevelopment. No Hands glitch = your connection nonexistant gunfire = your connection dropped games = 70% of the time your connection gun "jams" = your connection reloading bug= your connection lag = your connection Mail glitch = cross connectivity between eve and dust clearly isn't as strong as it should be, so right now there is now way to look at mails sent from eve. Getting stuck = terrain smoothing bug select button screen = could be your controller but we can assume it might be a bug as well (ive never had this). so half of these are things you cant really "fix" from CCP's side, the only thing they can do is to try and "smooth" it out so that when you do lag, its not as annoying. ie: when lagging while someone shoots there gun, make it so that once your connection is strong again that the "nonexistant firing" stops. currently the only way to get it to stop is to ask the person whos gun keeps shooting, to shoot one more time. However that doesn't really fix the lag problem, it just smooths it over so that you notice it less. as far as the other glitches go they dont really seem like difficult ones to figure out, especially the mailing one, which to me is the MOST annoying considering i have "26 unread mails" in my inbox...... So your telling me all these problems/bugs/glitches are from my connection. Riiiiiiiight.
Patoman OfallColors Angels of Darkness 3	Posted - 2013.01.21 05:20:00 - [15] - Quote Volgair wrote: Sake's right on the money here, what I am attempting to do is make the community aware that any one role is currently capable of being maximized within 8 months. (effectively by the time this game goes live you will have become as powerful as you can be with any one suit and weapon combination) I would like to know how long the current community feels is adequate for one role to be taken to full potential. mind you that "full potential" means only side grades by way of a different suit and other weapons. i for one would like to see the "core fitting" skill set extended, as well as shield and armor. in addition to those elongate every dropsuit and weapon to a 3 stage progression. 8 months is a long time for a game, I understand people want things to last but seriously. you aiming for have to live to 150 to train everything.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2013.01.21 06:09:00 - [16] - Quote 150 sounds about right been 10 years in eve and there are still things to train for launch characters
DigiOps DUST University Ivy League 85	Posted - 2013.01.21 06:19:00 - [17] - Quote Sometimes when I die I hear the sprinting sound until I respawn. Its like I've got a creeper hiding behind my couch panting in my ear. Its the navy all over again.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.21 06:21:00 - [18] - Quote Volgair wrote: Unique skins (hopefully with unique stats) aside, (that should all be available on release, the fact its not yet in game is a bit surprising.) i want to get an opinion on elongating the progression from day one to "fully invested" into any one specific profession. The idea of continued, dedicated improvement is more of a draw to me then side grades. I am assuming the same holds for the rest of you, or at least a good portion of you. Not skins. A minmtar scout suit. Totally different art. Eve online has a different model for each space ship. And they have tones of space ships in eve. I want a caldari heavy, An ammar dropship. Dust better get all of this god **** it.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.22 00:26:00 - [19] - Quote I used the term skin instead of model. My bad, and yes we should have them. I agree. Its to the point now of near disappointment, the only thing standing in the way of said disappointment is the fact I'm familiar with the with the stress the DEV team is under.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.23 16:56:00 - [20] - Quote In light of other more pressing threads over the last 3 days I've let this thread slip to page 11. Given said excitement of the last 3 days relating to SP I am hoping to finally get some real community input on this. To do so, I will begin with another example using existing gear to elaborate my point. Realize folks that this is a thought and theory thread dedicated to gaining a community consensus, for "down the line," requests for the DUST Dev team relating to Skill/ Roll Simplification. This is not a thread about ANY specific weapons or their stats, instead the point of this thread, as stated before is SP investment and dedication to specialized functionality. Now that that is out of the way. Let us look at Forge Guns and give each variant to a faction, for the purpose of elaborating my point. Operation- -5% reduction to charge time/level, Profecency- +3% damage/level. Note the operation and proficiency would apply to all of the below equally. The "specialization" given might be trainable at level 3 profecency. Faction--------Variant---------------------Specialization (skill bonus would only apply for faction specific variant) Gallente---- Standard Forge--- -3% charge time/level Minmatar--- Assault Forge----- +1 Round in Mag & +1 round capacity/Level Caldari------ Breach Forge----- LV1 allows you to move at 10% speed while charging & +10% movement speed/ level Amarr------- Stanard Forge---- +5% Splash radius and damage & 10% movement speed while charging/ level Let me know what you think, again not about the weapon changes (which i really do like.) Instead about how you feel about the skill progression as it currently exists.

Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.23 17:28:00 - [21] - Quote Patoman OfallColors wrote: Volgair wrote: Sake's right on the money here, what I am attempting to do is make the community aware that any one role is currently capable of being maximized within 8 months. (effectively by the time this game goes live you will have become as powerful as you can be with any one suit and weapon combination) I would like to know how long the current community feels is adequate for one role to be taken to full potential. mind you that "full potential" means only side grades by way of a different suit and other weapons. i for one would like to see the "core fitting" skill set extended, as well as shield and armor. in addition to those elongate every dropsuit and weapon to a 3 stage progression. 8 months is a long time for a game, I understand people want things to last but seriously. you aiming for have to live to 150 to train everything. 8 months entails suit, weapon, shield & armor (which also ties into vehicles mitigating that specialty as well) some fitting and general weapons skills (Light weapon sharp shooter or heavy weapon rapid reload ETC.) while i don't necessarily disapprove of field adaptability i do however find that in 1 month some one can come close to being as good as me by stats in any weapon i have spent months specializing in... Honestly that notion is a bit demeaning. Which also brings me to another point. We need to have games where we use a player defined limited SP clone. while i want specialization and the upper hand for corp and faction matches, i also want some challenge in these pub matches... Its not fair to them honestly. Not only am i generally better, have more skill points and deeper pockets. But I also have FAR more experience on these maps. Make it fair, keep it challenging.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 968	Posted - 2013.01.24 03:37:00 - [22] - Quote I've heard two months to max out a single role and thought that was a bit quick, especially when side grading is far faster due to all the common core skills. I rather like the idea of a deeper specialization to differentiate us from our corp mates. Once I get back into flying I'd like to have pride in being the most deeply skilled, and that won't happen if it's an easy side grade that anyone with a mild interest can max out in a month. Some thought would have to be put into the skills though, to make them meaningful yet not make you an unstoppable monster.


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