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Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2013.01.14 17:10:00 - [1] - Quote A lot of people complain about the CAP so bare with me about this in my logic to the proposal. - CCP wants earning Skills to be done for a long time, constantly infact, and I agree it shouldn't be easy to earn that perfect loadout. - We want fairness between new players and hardcore players - We don't want hardcore players penalised but we do want them to constantly feel like they earned something. at the moment we have the SP CAP, which just isn't working. I think we have the SP Cap because: - the hardcore players earn too much SP and out pace the casual gamers. to me this sounds like CCP thinks that hardcore gamers earn too much SP, thus we have an SP cap. the problem with this now is that it goes far too much to the left of the scale. CCP think we earn too much, therefore earn a cap, this tells me that the actions we do to achieve this is too high. the best players in the game are averaging 18-20 kills per match, this isn't an impossible feat to achieve, but by achieving it, you earn more SP than CCP wants you to earn. This is mainly because we don't have much sink holes for that SP (we will) so my suggestion? Remove the cap, lower the reward. instead of current system: Objective = 20WP Kill = 15WP Resurrect = 15WP Supply = 5WP Heal = 5WP the lower WP count means we get much lower rewards which will please CCP, yet we are constantly earning SP from performance based rewards (which gives bragging rights). when I now hit the cap of SP - I look at ISK rewards and use that as a basis to how well I do - with this proposed idea, it keeps the review on SP, the hardcore players can keep earning. Yes, the newbies won't get much SP to which use diminishing returns based bonus for newbies (from character creation to 500k sp for example) new characters doesn't determine if you are good or bad, imperfects recruited a guy from day 1 and he went 14-2 (Alm1ghty Statius). and to those arguing about "better players getting the good gear first vs the bad players with slower rewards" It's a game, it's how it's meant to be played: performance = reward, ontop of proper matchmaking functionality.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2013.01.14 17:12:00 - [2] - Quote No. Grind games suck, most of you have never played them. We need some new maps.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.14 17:14:00 - [3] - Quote No. Trust fund kids should not be able - by any rhyme or reason - to surpass everyone else because their dad works for a Fortune 500 company and refuses to teach them responsible life lessons.
Captain-Awesome Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2013.01.14 17:22:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: No. Trust fund kids should not be able - by any rhyme or reason - to surpass everyone else because their dad works for a Fortune 500 company and refuses to teach them responsible life lessons. what? telc any performance based game is grinding. you are grinding no matter what you do. the only way by not grinding is by removing any performance based reward system and having it given over time (passive) which doesn't work in a FPS game as it removes the performance = reward fps'ers use as bragging rights. all this does is lower the SP economy, while giving "on field time based sp reward" more value. CCP wants us to take a long time earning skill, grinding via performance or not even playing - the definition of grinding is "to take time repeating a process to achieve a goal" whether it is shooting people in the face, staying signed in (or not) or frying bacon - it's all the same.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.01.14 17:27:00 - [5] - Quote I am actually quite please with the current system. It actually gives me time to focus on my RL situation. With a cap of 76K sp per day it also ensures that the no lifers cant get too far ahead. Even if they play 100 games in a day, all they get is 7.5 K sp with boosters which is easy to catch up to. I can also be rest assured that by the end of the first month, no one with be running in proto gears. Which makes the playing field even. This gives time for grinding ISK and focus on corp building. So much to do and so much time to do it. I would have rather no-lifed it and got all mys **** in one day but this I feel is working out better.
Nightbird Aeon Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 86	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:24:00 - [6] - Quote No thank you.... I like hitting my cap and knowing that I can go to bed at a reasonable hour.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:33:00 - [7] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: No. Trust fund kids should not be able - by any rhyme or reason - to surpass everyone else because their dad works for a Fortune 500 company and refuses to teach them responsible life lessons. what? telc any performance based game is grinding. you are grinding no matter what you do. the only way by not grinding is by removing any performance based reward system and having it given over time (passive) which doesn't work in a FPS game as it removes the performance = reward fps'ers use as bragging rights. all this does is lower the SP economy, while giving "on field time based sp reward" more value. CCP wants us to take a long time earning skill, grinding via performance or not even playing - the definition of grinding is "to take time repeating a process to achieve a goal" whether it is shooting people in the face, staying signed in (or not) or frying bacon - it's all the same. Don't see the issue. It promotes a control of balance and forces you to specialize in a particular build rather than becoming an Ace of Trades who has level 5 everything because you sat there and grinded SP for eighteen hours a day.
H4lfdog KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 14	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:36:00 - [8] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: No. Grind games suck, most of you have never played them. We need some new maps. We need maps! I
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:39:00 - [9] - Quote I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:43:00 - [10] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: . . OP post . . The problem with op suggestion is, that the playing scale for 'normal' people and truly dedicated ones is so different. If upping a x1 skill to level one takes several days, that is probably too slow (that's my estimate for average player if hc player gains SP the same amount as now)

Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:48:00 - [11] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind. In which case it'd be a mad grab for the Squad Leader position and everyone would go Logistics with the most beneficial weapon they could muster - alternatively just go directly into fielding HAVs and spamming the field with them as it would net the most War Points...
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 176	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:49:00 - [12] - Quote Nope. No way. Nah-uh.
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.14 18:52:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind. In which case it'd be a mad grab for the Squad Leader position and everyone would go Logistics with the most beneficial weapon they could muster - alternatively just go directly into fielding HAVs and spamming the field with them as it would net the most War Points... HAV's have been nerfed. Really they're not even an issue anymore and are more of a temporary denial of area weapon, since everyone and their mother can run to the nearest supply depot grab a militia swarm starter fit or militia forge starter fit, kill the tank then switch back to their original classes, stop using the HAV spam OP comments they're old. As far as squad leader position goes I agree, thus it should only apply to the commander drop suits with appropriate skills when it is implemented into the game.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.14 19:00:00 - [14] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind. In which case it'd be a mad grab for the Squad Leader position and everyone would go Logistics with the most beneficial weapon they could muster - alternatively just go directly into fielding HAVs and spamming the field with them as it would net the most War Points... HAV's have been nerfed. Really they're not even an issue anymore and are more of a temporary denial of area weapon, since everyone and their mother can run to the nearest supply depot grab a militia swarm starter fit or militia forge starter fit, kill the tank then switch back to their original classes, stop using the HAV spam OP comments they're old. As far as squad leader position goes I agree, thus it should only apply to the commander drop suits with appropriate skills when it is implemented into the game. Oooooooh my god you literally only read "HAV" and "Spamming" didn't you? That entire post that's somehow all you got out of that... Alright, let me break it down for you dude.. War point based progression = Using the most efficient/cheap means possible = HAVs. When you can drop a few hundred thousand isk that you got from your Eve Online buddy who's filthy rich to ensure that get as many kills as humanly possible with as little deaths as humanly possible, that's the end result. Why do I say that? Because Squad Leaders will place a defense marker on the tank, and anyone in the squad that's in or around the HAV will give him commission on top of the kill assists. Thereby you have a conveyor belt of SP. It has NOTHING to do with how HAVs perform.
Cade Orion Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 27	Posted - 2013.01.14 19:05:00 - [15] - Quote You're idea of having lower healing points is something I do agree with, but not because of the cap. As it stands now after we get so many points in healing someone, our point gain stops if we reach so many points within a certain amount of time, then we have to wait to gain more points. We can heal all we want but until that time has passed no points will be given. CCP claims this is done because of the WP and Orbital Strike connection (which I'm having my doubts now about the fairness of this type of system). If this is the case, why not lower the amount of points you get from performing "Triage" to 5 points and keep it steady. My issue with the Cap is what I have stated in other posts. Console gamers are more finicky towards our games than computerized MMO gamers are - and that is how console gamers (especially FPS gamers) like to feel rewarded for their tasks at every level, placing a cap on this will cause a lot of gamers to just move onto another game when their cap runs out (I know I do). That's the problem. What CCP might think of doing to keep gamers in after they reach their cap - is a possible higher chance to claim some gear after the battle.
Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 445	Posted - 2013.01.14 19:14:00 - [16] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind. In which case it'd be a mad grab for the Squad Leader position and everyone would go Logistics with the most beneficial weapon they could muster - alternatively just go directly into fielding HAVs and spamming the field with them as it would net the most War Points... HAV's have been nerfed. Really they're not even an issue anymore and are more of a temporary denial of area weapon, since everyone and their mother can run to the nearest supply depot grab a militia swarm starter fit or militia forge starter fit, kill the tank then switch back to their original classes, stop using the HAV spam OP comments they're old. As far as squad leader position goes I agree, thus it should only apply to the commander drop suits with appropriate skills when it is implemented into the game. Oooooooh my god you literally only read "HAV" and "Spamming" didn't you? That entire post that's somehow all you got out of that... Alright, let me break it down for you dude.. War point based progression = Using the most efficient/cheap means possible = HAVs. When you can drop a few hundred thousand isk that you got from your Eve Online buddy who's filthy rich to ensure that get as many kills as humanly possible with as little deaths as humanly possible, that's the end result. Why do I say that? Because Squad Leaders will place a defense marker on the tank, and anyone in the squad that's in or around the HAV will give him commission on top of the kill assists. Thereby you have a conveyor belt of SP. It has NOTHING to do with how HAVs perform. If it has nothing to do with how HAV's perform then why use them as an example? Obviously they perform as a good kdr element and area denial or you wouldn't worry about squad war points and HAV's or you wouldn't have said as many kills with as little deaths as possible. Why not put the marker on a sniper in the spawn, good sniper same war point lil to no deaths. You do realize at this point I'm just finding ur posts to bug you right?
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.14 19:22:00 - [17] - Quote Originally before replication SP gains were fairly low, but uncapped. We had daily diminishing returns which prevented people from getting "too far ahead". SP would reset every night at around 8pm EST. It was a marvelous system.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.14 19:24:00 - [18] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: I love how ppl just say no and shoot you down instead of giving an idea, course that one kid trolls the posts and never has feedback, just a no or long troll.......hmmm sp cap. Atm its eh, in the original beta release we got alot.....ALOT of sp, I'd gotten 325k sp in one game back then! I do the 20+/2 or 3 and the kdr is good enough for me, what I like is well....in eve you have a constant so, always builds like our passive. The thing that matters is what ppl train for and if they make mistakes during training. Example all the first eve players ya we have alot of sp but let me tell you, we're worlds apart on where the sp was spent and if we wasted a month of training on an item or not, or got into a ship before we we're ready with support skills. No matter when you start eve ur always Gunna be behind the rest of the pack, forever. There is no catching up and magical day that you earn a bunch of sp. I think the biggest sp prob arm is we are to use to what we originally got on the beta release. We should either have a full passive sp or war point by war point sp. By that I mean if you go 22/0 your getting say 1200 war points, there's ur sp no more no less. That way you've accomplished something showing direct results from ur game play and there really isn't a need for a cap, try getting 100k sp in 24 hours, that's a grind. In which case it'd be a mad grab for the Squad Leader position and everyone would go Logistics with the most beneficial weapon they could muster - alternatively just go directly into fielding HAVs and spamming the field with them as it would net the most War Points... HAV's have been nerfed. Really they're not even an issue anymore and are more of a temporary denial of area weapon, since everyone and their mother can run to the nearest supply depot grab a militia swarm starter fit or militia forge starter fit, kill the tank then switch back to their original classes, stop using the HAV spam OP comments they're old. As far as squad leader position goes I agree, thus it should only apply to the commander drop suits with appropriate skills when it is implemented into the game. Oooooooh my god you literally only read "HAV" and "Spamming" didn't you? That entire post that's somehow all you got out of that... Alright, let me break it down for you dude.. War point based progression = Using the most efficient/cheap means possible = HAVs. When you can drop a few hundred thousand isk that you got from your Eve Online buddy who's filthy rich to ensure that get as many kills as humanly possible with as little deaths as humanly possible, that's the end result. Why do I say that? Because Squad Leaders will place a defense marker on the tank, and anyone in the squad that's in or around the HAV will give him commission on top of the kill assists. Thereby you have a conveyor belt of SP. It has NOTHING to do with how HAVs perform. If it has nothing to do with how HAV's perform then why use them as an example? Obviously they perform as a good kdr element and area denial or you wouldn't worry about squad war points and HAV's or you wouldn't have said as many kills with as little deaths as possible. Why not put the marker on a sniper in the spawn, good sniper same war point lil to no deaths. You do realize at this point I'm just finding ur posts to bug you right? -_- you and everyone else it seems.


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