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Glockshna Twerk
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.01.13 15:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Simple as can be. There is a massive game balance issue here. If people are allowed to use a mouse and keyboard to stomp controller users people will not want to play this game.
There are two solutions I can see to this problem:
1: Limit matchmaking for people with a keyboard connected to only match with other people with a keyboard connected and either kick people who connect a keyboard or simply disallow it from working in controller matches.
2: (Easier and most preferred imo) remove it completely.
Let's face it, you made a console shooter. If you want people to be able to use a mouse and keyboard port it to PC (where this game should be anyway but that's another story)
Thoughts? |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sounds like some more PC hatred to me. Console gaming shouldn't exist at all, imo, but that's another story.
Edit: Honestly, have you even tried using KBM? It's terrible - I'm a PC gamer and I still use the controller just because it's -terrible-. Sure, you got better accuracy but the controls don't even register half the time - you spend 25% of the game time actually trying to figure out how to switch weapons and open menus.
And let's not even get started on the terrible mouse interface to begin with, all you have to do is hold the analog stick in one direction - we have to fight against the sensitivity.
Try it before you hate it. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
283
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Let people play they want to play. As long as there is no advantage in one or the other. |
Glockshna Twerk
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:Let people play they want to play. As long as there is no advantage in one or the other.
Are you that dense?
Anyway, I did play with a keyboard and mouse. (My ps3 actually is at my desk hooked up to one of my screens) and it's not that bad. It took me 3 or 4 matches to get used to the odd controls but it's much better than with a controller. My K/d is usually 6-7/1 with a keyboard where it would be 2-3/1 with a controller
That's not saying much as skills with a controller vs skill with a keyboard is entirely subjective but the point is that we're not all on a level playing field. It is without a doubt advantageous to play a shooter with a KBM over a thumbstick controller.
To the Let people play how they want comment 
I respond with the FIRST suggestion in my original post which is separate matches for KBM and controller users which could be enabled through a simple check box in the matching system to put you in lobbies that don't allow keyboard use.
UI wise it's easy but implementation back end is not quite so easy. |
KA24DERT
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
13
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 15:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is a game where people spend real money to buy fake items to get a small edge over their opponents.
Do you think folks won't eventually spend the 15 dollars at Walmart for a keyboard and mouse combo?
This is assuming that folks don't already own keyboards and mice.
Honestly, if it wasn't for this feature, I wouldn't even have played this game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment. |
Glockshna Twerk
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:This is a game where people spend real money to buy fake items to get a small edge over their opponents.
Do you think folks won't eventually spend the 15 dollars at Walmart for a keyboard and mouse combo?
This is assuming that folks don't already own keyboards and mice.
Honestly, if it wasn't for this feature, I wouldn't even have played this game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Which begs the questions of why they don't make this for PC as well but that's another thread.
My point here is that people shouldn't need to buy a keyboard to be competitive in this game. Separate matching for keyboard users is the simple solution here that wont hurt anybody's feelings. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Glockshna Twerk wrote:Simple as can be. There is a massive game balance issue here. If people are allowed to use a mouse and keyboard to stomp controller users people will not want to play this game.
There are two solutions I can see to this problem:
1: Limit matchmaking for people with a keyboard connected to only match with other people with a keyboard connected and either kick people who connect a keyboard or simply disallow it from working in controller matches.
2: (Easier and most preferred imo) remove it completely.
Let's face it, you made a console shooter. If you want people to be able to use a mouse and keyboard port it to PC (where this game should be anyway but that's another story)
Thoughts?
I personally use both ds3 and kb/m depending on my mood and I can tell you there is absolutely no difference. The mouse sensitivity is on a par with ds3 sticks, there is no advantage for people using kb/m over people who use ds3, it all boild down to personal taste and for you to request for it to be removed is plain idiotic. It may be a console shooter but it has a great deal of pc elements, and people should have the choice to play with either ds3, kb/m or ps move.
Why are you not requesting move to be removed? If you want to use the sensitivity excuse, ps move has more sensitivity over mouse. But again, people have the right to choose.
There are also lots of menus and sub menus in dust and navigating those with controller can be cumbersome at times, then there's vehicle controls, infantry controls etc etc. not everyone likes to use ds3 for vehicles (I use ds3 for infantry and kb/m for vehicles), which brings me back to my previous 'personal taste' statement.
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Kovak Therim
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 16:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
As long as I am not at disadvantage using a DS3, I don't care. 20+ years of using a controller and absolutely no desire to learn another control setup. Old dog, new trick kind of thing. I tried playing Morrowind and Oblivion on my laptop with a USB mouse. It wasn't pretty. It would be more frustrating to struggle with the M/K than to just use my DS3. Btw, TC, are you trying to get flamed? lol |
KA24DERT
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
13
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Glockshna Twerk wrote:KA24DERT wrote:This is a game where people spend real money to buy fake items to get a small edge over their opponents.
Do you think folks won't eventually spend the 15 dollars at Walmart for a keyboard and mouse combo?
This is assuming that folks don't already own keyboards and mice.
Honestly, if it wasn't for this feature, I wouldn't even have played this game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment. Which begs the questions of why they don't make this for PC as well but that's another thread. My point here is that people shouldn't need to buy a keyboard to be competitive in this game. Separate matching for keyboard users is the simple solution here that wont hurt anybody's feelings.
Back in the 90s I used to play a lot of Doom 2. I beat all of Doom using a keyboard, with no mouse. The mouse was felt "wierd" and I just refused to play with it. Made me dizzy.
Then I found a local dial up BBS that allowed you to have 4 player deathmatches. Hey I'm gonna rock, I beat all those monsters so easily! Well, I just got trounced repeatedly. I could barely even get a single kill in. Eventually I found out why I was losing, enabled my mouse, had a week of learning pain, and started fragging with (some of) the best of them.
Being competitive always requires extra effort. If someone doesn't put the extra effort in, they stop being competitive.
So much is done to competitive games in order to not "hurt anybody's feelings" it's a wonder that games even have points anymore, and a further mystery that we still tally them in order to determine a winner.
tl;dr The simple solution here is for people to Harden the **** up. |
Thranx1231
CowTek
90
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1
Yep. |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.01.13 16:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
So what's your actual reasoning for wanting it removed other than the fact that you can't shoot with a controller? |
McFurious
BetaMax.
67
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 17:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
I use keyboard and mouse because I'm a PC gamer and that's what I'm best with. I'm completely useless with a controller in an FPS. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the players on the high end of the leader boards are controller users though. So just use what you're best with. This game has options for both and that's awesome.
If you're getting better scores with a keyboard and mouse, just use that instead. Problem solved. |
Nickles Jester
BetaMax.
43
|
Posted - 2013.01.13 21:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't believe for a moment that mouse and keyboard gives any sort of advantage over controller. That is just nonsense and you shouldn't be trying to scape goat that method simply because you got killed. Some of the best players in this game be they from Serephim, Hellstorm, Imperfects, Betamax or any other corp with skilled players don't use mouse and keyboard, they instead use controllers. Heck I bet the top 10 on the leaderboards only use controllers. One is not better than the other, they are both equal. It all depends on your preference and nothing more. I use both myself and I really see no difference between them, but hey that's mostly because I'm not like most console gamers or pc gamers I grew up using both equally so I'm a bit of a hybrid and can adapt easily. |
56 truth
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
73
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Posted - 2013.01.13 21:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
dude you miss the boat so many months ago when everyone was saying no or yes to keyboard and move |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
72
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Posted - 2013.01.29 23:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:Back in the 90s I used to play a lot of Doom 2. I beat all of Doom using a keyboard, with no mouse. The mouse was felt "wierd" and I just refused to play with it. Made me dizzy.
Lol been there, i once went to a tourney (nothing big just 16 guys) and as i sat down people starting to equip their mouse to play some Duke Nukem 3D (i was like O_O wtfu are you gonna do with a mouse?......i ended up third using no mouse at all but daym...it hurt lol, picked up a mouse later on and 10 years later some Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, but i wouldnt have wanted any other way :p But yeah a mouse was really weird back then....
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Coleus Rattus
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.01.30 08:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm a long time PC gamer, yet I still prefer to play Dust with a controller. In fact, I haven't even botherd to try out the KB/M combo in Dust.
Still, I manage to be amongst the top 3 players of my team prety much all the time. And I think it has various reasons:
Firstly, playing on the big screen with KB/M takes time getting used to, which I learned after trying to play BF3 on PC on my TV.
Secondly, as it's a free to play game, most players will be "casual" or short time players which will mostly use the Controller.
Thirdly, again, as it's a console FPS, I also think that most of the long term players will stick with controllers.
And lastly, even though it might be neccessary to switch over to KB/M to be individually competitive on the high end, Dust rewards teamplay and tactics over individual KDRs, so a disparity in controller speed and precision isn't as decisive as in a Deathmatch game.
So I say, keep it in. Variatio delectat! |
Memeotis
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.01.30 12:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
I wrote on the same topic ages ago with the simple argument that KB/M is more powerful. This has already been proven. Balance is key to an enjoyable gaming experience.
I quit this game long ago, I merely dropped by today to see if things had improved, but clearly not much has changed. Even if Dust was actually good game to begin with, the fact that KB/M is supported would still have caused me to quit anyway.
Dust 514 should've switched places with Planetside 2, imo. The depth CCP is trying to achieve with this game makes it more fitting for a PC game, while PS2 all-round better gameplay, though shallow metagame would make it great for console. |
BOZ MR
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.01.30 12:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
They told in an interview that they are considering to add control-type filtering in the future, meaning that you will not play with keyboard players if you do not want to. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2013.01.30 13:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Memeotis wrote:I wrote on the same topic ages ago with the simple argument that KB/M is more powerful. This has already been proven. Balance is key to an enjoyable gaming experience. I quit this game long ago, I merely dropped by today to see if things had improved, but clearly not much has changed. Even if Dust was actually good game to begin with, the fact that KB/M is supported would still have caused me to quit anyway. Dust 514 should've switched places with Planetside 2, imo. The depth CCP is trying to achieve with this game makes it more fitting for a PC game, while PS2 all-round better gameplay, though shallow metagame would make it great for console.
Lol it must be true cos someone wrote a blog about it ! |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
217
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 14:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
I direct you to the leaderboards. Go look at number 1. See that guy yea he uses DS3. Oh you see those imperfects up there. Oh yea most of them use DS3.
Corp after corp after corp will tell you of players who use DS3 all who utterly decimate players regardless of what peripheral they use.
But love those tasty tears. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2013.01.30 15:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Some of the best players in this beta use the DS3 and it does nothing to stop them from shitting all over everyone. Protoman, for instance, uses the DS3 and routinely strides through entire teams without stopping. If you're performing better with a mouse than a DS3, then that's it. You perform better. Some people don't.
Deal with it. |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
200
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Posted - 2013.01.30 15:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
HTFU, this is a compromise for the disappointment that is this game being marketed as a PS3 exclusive... Plus the fact of the matter is its not an advantage just a preference for manipulation of the control scheme.
Also there are many things that cant be done on M&KB, efficiently using a Rail tank or Rail Turret or piloting a drop ship. Selecting a spawn point. I have to have a DS3 on my lap at all times for these things.
If you think its an advantage, buy a M&KB and if nothing more then to try it before b*tching about it. You may even find that you like it more.
NOTE: While it's not currently an issue, there are no companies that make a "turbo" or "modded" mouse the that allow people to cheat by auto firing weapons that by design are supposed to be "pull per shot." This is mainly due to the fact that such peripheral's are considered cheating on PC and are not permitted in tourney play. They however are considered Pro on console. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 16:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
i think there is a much easier fix to this, move it to the PC.
eliminate the middle man completely from the equation. also it would prolong the future of the game. |
Kovak Therim
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
158
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 18:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:i think there is a much easier fix to this, move it to the PC.
eliminate the middle man completely from the equation. also it would prolong the future of the game.
By competing with the plethora of arguably better MMOFPS already out on that platform? Uh huh. Yea, sure. It's fine where it is.
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Coleus Rattus
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.01.30 19:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Volgair wrote:
NOTE: While it's not currently an issue, there are no companies that make a "turbo" or "modded" mouse the that allow people to cheat by auto firing weapons that by design are supposed to be "pull per shot." This is mainly due to the fact that such peripheral's are considered cheating on PC and are not permitted in tourney play. They however are considered Pro on console.
Well, there are controllers too with a turbo fire function, so I think that's a non issue concerning the advantages of mice over thumbsticks... |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 19:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kovak Therim wrote:
By competing with the plethora of arguably better MMOFPS already out on that platform? Uh huh. Yea, sure. It's fine where it is.
yeah, because there isn't any Q based FPSs on the PS3 at all. |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
902
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Posted - 2013.01.31 04:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Another whiner looking for an excuse as to why they are scrubby. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 04:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
As a general rule, try something before you say its OP. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 04:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
I've used both control schemes.
I perform better with the sixaxis (emphasis on "sixaxis" not "DS3" because I have a release-week controller that doesn't have DualShock functionality as well as several newer DualShock controllers) than the mouse and keyboard.
And yes, I'm good with KB+M control. When I'm planning to run as a sniper, I'll plug them in, but for the most part, I don't snipe, and precision aim doesn't help as much as fluid movement, which WASD doesn't offer. |
Jooki Chewaka
Freek Coalition
8
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Posted - 2013.01.31 04:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:This is a game where people spend real money to buy fake items to get a small edge over their opponents.
Do you think folks won't eventually spend the 15 dollars at Walmart for a keyboard and mouse combo?
This is assuming that folks don't already own keyboards and mice.
Honestly, if it wasn't for this feature, I wouldn't even have played this game. I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Absolutely man, in fact i bought a ps3 to buy this game, im also a pc gamer, eve gamer, and if they remove this feature (as bad and botched as it is, tbh), well...
if they do, GIMME MY MONEY BACK |
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