DUST Search - AFK skill farmers

Dragon Grace wrote:

56 truth wrote:

how about if they are afc/afk in mcc for more then whole match they get zero sp and zero isk it would need to be refind a bit but i say it would make hard for sp isk farmers to use mcc's as a safe house.

i would not recommend this option as it would be really easy for someone to just nudge to controller every 5 minutes. technically, that wouldnt be afk/afc for the whole match.

so very easily exploited.

i just hate the fact that there are caps in the first place. there is no such thing in EvE. granted, the skill training is a time based thing (influenced by addition augmentation to accelerate things with implants) but there is no way in hell they would give the newbies a boost to start with so they can "catch up" with the weathered played. Hell, they even took away the initial boost on training for new people. they used to have a boost on learning time for the first 2m SP...at least i think it was 2m. now its even harder to make your mark in EvE.

this is the same universe right? the same, living universe. The players should dictate the course of power in New Eden here as much as they do in EvE. A cap just isnt the way forward in making that happen. each iteration of this cap makes it even more annoying and personally....i have lost a bit of passion for this game as a result. i cant play MY game and choose MY path as a merc. i have to play THE game and work my way along THE path at the pace it allows me to. where is the reward for an efficient merc?

the only way...and i mean THE ONLY way to make the whole SP thing a level playing field is to have the same kinda system as eve. A passing SP accumulation towards a skill that you have queued up. now, i have no idea whether that would work or not....but then all everyone would need to worry about is ISK, and making sure they can afford the stuff that they are training for. everyone trains as the same speed, it just obviously depends on how long you play as to how far along your merc journey you are. yeh sure....it would make new people a little more vulnerable....but New Eden is an unforgiving place. you gotta work to get good. plus, there are plenty of shooter player would could wear militia kit and take on a proto guy. some people really are that good.

im not saying that the passive system is the way forward either, im saying its the only idea i can think of that would keep everything even. kinda cool for people who do have jobs aswell as they (just like in EvE) can leave a skill traninig if they know they cant get online. then all they need to worry about is ISK. meanwhile, the rest of us a raping people's faces fattening our wallets! :) YAY!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ghural The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:05:00 - [1] - Quote Since the new SP system started, I have noticed players being AFK for the entire match. Passively accumulating SP (since SP is now based mainly on the length of time a person is in a match. At times I have noticed up to 3 players doing this. Obviously this needs to be fixed.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:19:00 - [2] - Quote Sorry, AFK means what?
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:22:00 - [3] - Quote Ghural wrote: Since the new SP system started, I have noticed players being AFK for the entire match. Passively accumulating SP (since SP is now based mainly on the length of time a person is in a match. At times I have noticed up to 3 players doing this. Obviously this needs to be fixed. Last time I went and checked on some of these, they turned out to be a group of Snipers so far from the battle they couldn't possibly have a good line of sight on much of anything. One did start shooting at the rough proximity of an enemy supply depot when I approached them, but I doubt he had much chance of hitting anything from there. My experience with the Sniper Rifles, is that they have a maximum range of damage potential, just like any other weapon. Looking back, I'd assume they were outside of that range, but I can't be sure. Could be SP farming, sure.
Mars El'Theran Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness 52	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:23:00 - [4] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Sorry, AFK means what? AFC might work better for you.
Ghural The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:35:00 - [5] - Quote No. They were not snipers. They were behind buildings with no view of the enemy. I know this as they have been on my own team on occasion.
NovaShadowStorm The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:48:00 - [6] - Quote I mainly see them when we're losing they spawn in the MCC then just sit there until the game ends. I think if you're absolutely immobile or without action for too long you should be kicked or something at least a stationary sniper would be panning across the battlefield looking for someone to shoot not just sitting stock still.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.13 10:52:00 - [7] - Quote Mars El'Theran wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Sorry, AFK means what? AFC might work better for you. Funny Merc. Really, when Feetball starts packin' guns I'll watch. Charge Snipers, Forge Guns and Scrambler Pistols. No Nades. You got funny down pat I'll grant you that, now do informative: AFK means ... Afraid To Kill? Afraid to Die I understand. Even Afraid To Fight. I had to Forge Gun a Blue HAV to get him to understand the concept. Recently I have shot at my own snipers, thrown Nades at Mercs hiding in the defending spawn area and have taken to looking at the kill/death ratios and wondering how they could be that bad and still be hiding. If they would just stay on the barge we probably would have won the match.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:00:00 - [8] - Quote NovaShadowStorm wrote: I mainly see them when we're losing they spawn in the MCC then just sit there until the game ends. I think if you're absolutely immobile or without action for too long you should be kicked or something at least a stationary sniper would be panning across the battlefield looking for someone to shoot not just sitting stock still. I wait with baited breath and overcharged forge gun for the day I get to shoot these putzes and do them actual harm. Laziness should be punished with friendly fire. and grenades.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:27:00 - [9] - Quote I actually do this a lot. It's my way to protest the new daily cap. I can get the maximum daily SP without ever doing one thing at all, as long as I log in and take all of 30 seconds to spawn into the MCC and go afk for 20 minutes, I can get like 7-8k SP a match. Yet if I do this for a couple hours every day, paying pretty much zero attention to the game, I still end up with almost 150k SP more a week than someone who has a job and can only play on weekends? An Idle kick is not a solution, it's a stopgap measure. (Which wouldn't work, btw) The issue here is the reward system having it's worst iteration yet. Expect a post/search forums later today about "MCC Mondays", I'll be making a post for people wanting to join me in this effort on a more organized front.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:27:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: NovaShadowStorm wrote: I mainly see them when we're losing they spawn in the MCC then just sit there until the game ends. I think if you're absolutely immobile or without action for too long you should be kicked or something at least a stationary sniper would be panning across the battlefield looking for someone to shoot not just sitting stock still. I wait with baited breath and overcharged forge gun for the day I get to shoot these putzes and do them actual harm. Laziness should be punished with friendly fire. and grenades. While screaming "Breakin Stuff" into the mic.

Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:37:00 - [11] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: NovaShadowStorm wrote: I mainly see them when we're losing they spawn in the MCC then just sit there until the game ends. I think if you're absolutely immobile or without action for too long you should be kicked or something at least a stationary sniper would be panning across the battlefield looking for someone to shoot not just sitting stock still. I wait with baited breath and overcharged forge gun for the day I get to shoot these putzes and do them actual harm. Laziness should be punished with friendly fire. and grenades. While screaming "Breakin Stuff" into the mic. Gooddamned right, and don't you effin forget it.
Ghural The Southern Legion 63	Posted - 2013.01.13 12:32:00 - [12] - Quote Maybe you should only get SP if you're on the winning team.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.01.13 12:38:00 - [13] - Quote I also do this when I don't have enough time to actually play. Start the PS, sit in the MCC, call people on the telephone, answer the mail, etc. and perhaps actually play a game if there's any time. The SP system incentivises this and that's why I do it. I don't believe that commenting it on the forum will achieve anything. At least I hope that CCP doesn't take any feedback from this forum serious. By the way, I won 50% of my games so far by idling in the MCC. So that's not a valid mechanic to stop it. In contrast, before the reset, I lost more than 50% of my games despite actively trying to positively influence the matches I was in.
Aeon Amadi Maverick Conflict Solutions 1003	Posted - 2013.01.13 13:26:00 - [14] - Quote I proposed an easy fix a while back. 1 WP = 5 SP 1 Sec = 1 SP Forces more influence on actual gameplay and less on "drawing the battle out".
Gringo Nos Opus Arcana Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.01.13 13:34:00 - [15] - Quote This is why the passive gain needs to be removed!
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2013.01.13 13:40:00 - [16] - Quote Gonna hold my hands up and say I've actually done this. Spawned into a MCC in a free fit and done nothing, gotten 9k SP for it. Also AFK/C = Away From Keyboard/Controller.
Yalena Yazria Wings of Grace Double Tap. 1	Posted - 2013.01.13 13:40:00 - [17] - Quote I've see this once or twice since the reset, I would suggest CCP change the SP awarding as a battle or performance report at the end of the match, such as: 1. Get SP for objectives hacked, if any. Taking a control point back from the enemy before the hack takes effect could be a bonus to this aspect. 2. Optional, maybe, Hit accuracy could play a part in the report. this is just so they don't just shoot randomly just to get on the report log. 3. How many clones you went through to achieve the goals of your contract. 4. Giving logi support, healing, rearming. This is especially good for those who follow around a heavy chain gunner with repairs on them constantly, only the log will only report the damage that was repaired and not how long the repair beam was on said gunner. 5. Bringing, rather risking your assets on the field of battle to help achieve a win, this could benefit a performance report. Like dropping of troops to or near a hot spot to aid in backing up fellow comrades. 6. Adjust the sniper rifle's ranges like the other guns to a semi shorter distance then they can do now, or as the projectile travels from rifle to target it would be less lethal, like a falloff rang on a ship's guns in Eve. Like a Sniper Rifle's optimal range. That's all I can really think of at the moment, add if you have better ideas. This could help with the AFC (Away From Controller) issue, you do nothing you get no isk or SP. ^_^
Jackof All-Trades Bojo's School of the Trades 79	Posted - 2013.01.13 16:13:00 - [18] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Mars El'Theran wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Sorry, AFK means what? AFC might work better for you. Funny Merc. Really, when Feetball starts packin' guns I'll watch. Charge Snipers, Forge Guns and Scrambler Pistols. No Nades. You got funny down pat I'll grant you that, now do informative: AFK means ... Afraid To Kill? Afraid to Die I understand. Even Afraid To Fight. I had to Forge Gun a Blue HAV to get him to understand the concept. Recently I have shot at my own snipers, thrown Nades at Mercs hiding in the defending spawn area and have taken to looking at the kill/death ratios and wondering how they could be that bad and still be hiding. If they would just stay on the barge we probably would have won the match. AFK = Away from keyboard. Urbandictionary and such is great for these kinds of things, just a heads up.
Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.01.13 16:44:00 - [19] - Quote My idea would be to give a base amount of SP to the winners and losers (losers get half the amount of SP), and any WP you get are added on to that base amount. Don't want to join in? Okay, then prepare to fall behind those that fought by 1-2,000 SP every match.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.13 16:48:00 - [20] - Quote Simple fix, no activity for lets say 2 minutes tops or maybe even one minute. The system boots from match as failure to achieve or follow contract obligations, no sp gain for it, and let's say loss of standings should they ever add them.

Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.01.13 16:56:00 - [21] - Quote Octavian Vetiver wrote: Simple fix, no activity for lets say 2 minutes tops or maybe even one minute. The system boots from match as failure to achieve or follow contract obligations, no sp gain for it, and let's say loss of standings should they ever add them. Something like that could also be reported to your player corp if you're in one. Keep doing it and you'll find yourself stuck with blueberries and no other corp wanting you. Rough times ahead.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 970	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:11:00 - [22] - Quote Don't blame the players for reacting naturally to the incentives and pressures CCP applies. The game creator sets the rules and the players react to them. CCP has created this situation by: 1) Imposing a daily SP cap with no rollover 2) Awarding "Passive" (time based) SP for "Activity" (being in match). The first creates huge pressure to get your time in every day even when you don't have time to pay attention to the game, and the second makes it trivially easy to farm the "active" points. Honestly, what do you think is going to happen? An arms race to determine is a person is actualy active or not is not the answer. You have to change one or both of the points above to make a real change.
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:18:00 - [23] - Quote I have presented to politicians that they should use Engineers to test new laws. Gamers could work also. Finding a solution with the least effort or a way to get the desired results regardless of the restrictions. Why these things happen in Video Game Teams where they are gamers is beyond me. Maybe my first idea is best. Use Engineers. Not many of those in Video Games.
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 34	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:20:00 - [24] - Quote Ghural wrote: No. They were not snipers. They were behind buildings with no view of the enemy. I know this as they have been on my own team on occasion. That might have been me at least once. I was hiding and with my squad calling in as many LAV's as possible, trying to make a pile of them. It was after I reached my daily cap, I do silly things then. Also, me and some corp mates were in an ambush playing hide and go seek, with a 100,000 ISK reward to whoever died the least.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 970	Posted - 2013.01.13 17:51:00 - [25] - Quote CCP had to know what they were doing, yet they did it anyway. They had to have at least one guy ask the question "How can this be abused, and is there incentive to abuse it?" The answers to that are pretty obvious in this situation. Rather than assume CCP is brain dead, I suspect they have other plans and motivations such that they aren't concerned about the current AFK farming. One possible explanation is that they will be implementing a rolling cap shortly and that will remove a great deal of the incentive. I think they prefer most of active SP to be awarded for just playing in order to balance it between vets and beginners. If we received SP mainly from WP it would force beginners to play a huge number of matches, while it would result in vets capping out in even fewer matches. Both would end up complaining, one because it took them too much play and the other because they lost incentive too quickly. Thus I don't see the second point changing. My prediction is that we get a rolling daily cap with the next build and the hard daily cap is just a stepping stone.
56 truth Algintal Core Gallente Federation 73	Posted - 2013.01.13 18:13:00 - [26] - Quote how about if they are afc/afk in mcc for more then whole match they get zero sp and zero isk it would need to be refind a bit but i say it would make hard for sp isk farmers to use mcc's as a safe house.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.13 20:28:00 - [27] - Quote Ghural wrote: Since the new SP system started, I have noticed players being AFK for the entire match. Passively accumulating SP (since SP is now based mainly on the length of time a person is in a match. At times I have noticed up to 3 players doing this. Obviously this needs to be fixed. I have noticed this as well, sent a full report on it to CCP. The simple math is that you can hit the cap in 4-6 matches with functionally zero risk (and that's assuming you do literally nothing except spawn in once. At minimum the current system needs it's values inverted so that you gain 5 sp per wp and only 1 sp per second. Even then tho the sp per second mechanic may remain a problem.
Dragon Grace Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.01.13 21:17:00 - [28] - Quote 56 truth wrote: how about if they are afc/afk in mcc for more then whole match they get zero sp and zero isk it would need to be refind a bit but i say it would make hard for sp isk farmers to use mcc's as a safe house. i would not recommend this option as it would be really easy for someone to just nudge to controller every 5 minutes. technically, that wouldnt be afk/afc for the whole match. so very easily exploited. i just hate the fact that there are caps in the first place. there is no such thing in EvE. granted, the skill training is a time based thing (influenced by addition augmentation to accelerate things with implants) but there is no way in hell they would give the newbies a boost to start with so they can "catch up" with the weathered played. Hell, they even took away the initial boost on training for new people. they used to have a boost on learning time for the first 2m SP...at least i think it was 2m. now its even harder to make your mark in EvE. this is the same universe right? the same, living universe. The players should dictate the course of power in New Eden here as much as they do in EvE. A cap just isnt the way forward in making that happen. each iteration of this cap makes it even more annoying and personally....i have lost a bit of passion for this game as a result. i cant play MY game and choose MY path as a merc. i have to play THE game and work my way along THE path at the pace it allows me to. where is the reward for an efficient merc? the only way...and i mean THE ONLY way to make the whole SP thing a level playing field is to have the same kinda system as eve. A passing SP accumulation towards a skill that you have queued up. now, i have no idea whether that would work or not....but then all everyone would need to worry about is ISK, and making sure they can afford the stuff that they are training for. everyone trains as the same speed, it just obviously depends on how long you play as to how far along your merc journey you are. yeh sure....it would make new people a little more vulnerable....but New Eden is an unforgiving place. you gotta work to get good. plus, there are plenty of shooter player would could wear militia kit and take on a proto guy. some people really are that good. im not saying that the passive system is the way forward either, im saying its the only idea i can think of that would keep everything even. kinda cool for people who do have jobs aswell as they (just like in EvE) can leave a skill traninig if they know they cant get online. then all they need to worry about is ISK. meanwhile, the rest of us a raping people's faces fattening our wallets! :) YAY!
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.01.13 21:37:00 - [29] - Quote At least let us push them out of the MCC
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.13 22:23:00 - [30] - Quote Dragon Grace wrote: 56 truth wrote: how about if they are afc/afk in mcc for more then whole match they get zero sp and zero isk it would need to be refind a bit but i say it would make hard for sp isk farmers to use mcc's as a safe house. i would not recommend this option as it would be really easy for someone to just nudge to controller every 5 minutes. technically, that wouldnt be afk/afc for the whole match. so very easily exploited. i just hate the fact that there are caps in the first place. there is no such thing in EvE. granted, the skill training is a time based thing (influenced by addition augmentation to accelerate things with implants) but there is no way in hell they would give the newbies a boost to start with so they can "catch up" with the weathered played. Hell, they even took away the initial boost on training for new people. they used to have a boost on learning time for the first 2m SP...at least i think it was 2m. now its even harder to make your mark in EvE. this is the same universe right? the same, living universe. The players should dictate the course of power in New Eden here as much as they do in EvE. A cap just isnt the way forward in making that happen. each iteration of this cap makes it even more annoying and personally....i have lost a bit of passion for this game as a result. i cant play MY game and choose MY path as a merc. i have to play THE game and work my way along THE path at the pace it allows me to. where is the reward for an efficient merc? the only way...and i mean THE ONLY way to make the whole SP thing a level playing field is to have the same kinda system as eve. A passing SP accumulation towards a skill that you have queued up. now, i have no idea whether that would work or not....but then all everyone would need to worry about is ISK, and making sure they can afford the stuff that they are training for. everyone trains as the same speed, it just obviously depends on how long you play as to how far along your merc journey you are. yeh sure....it would make new people a little more vulnerable....but New Eden is an unforgiving place. you gotta work to get good. plus, there are plenty of shooter player would could wear militia kit and take on a proto guy. some people really are that good. im not saying that the passive system is the way forward either, im saying its the only idea i can think of that would keep everything even. kinda cool for people who do have jobs aswell as they (just like in EvE) can leave a skill traninig if they know they cant get online. then all they need to worry about is ISK. meanwhile, the rest of us a raping people's faces fattening our wallets! :) YAY! Actually when they took out the learning skills it made it faster because now everyone starts with the same attributes which can be remapped. Keeping the boost would have meant people being in battleships that were fairly well fit with a month and a half tops. They'd still have ended up hitting cap ship abilities in 6 to 8 months tops.



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