DUST Search - What's a "Skill Spike" and "Skill Cluster"?

Fivetimes Infinity wrote:

xprotoman23 wrote:

I'm not going to sit and argue with you seeing as it's totally paying to temporarily gain an advantage over other players that would have to spend weeks and months to achieve.

You still do not understand. You are not gaining an advantage over anyone. Let's say you have 1 million SP invested in infantry skills, and you get a skill cluster that unlocks 1 million SP worth of vehicle-related skills temporarily. Do you have an advantage over other players? What is the advantage you have over someone who invested their 1 million earned SP in vehicle-related skills? Or a player with 2 million SP, divided between infantry and vehicle skills?

The answer is that you do not have an advantage over the latter two players. You do not have access to anything other players who earned their SP through fighting and put them into whatever your skill cluster is invested in does. Therefore it isn't pay to win, because the person paying for the skill cluster doesn't have an advantage that non-paying players don't have access to. They have a convenience, in that they temporarily unlock some options early, but how is that any different than getting bonus SP above and beyond what other players get via active boosters?

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StealthReborn L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 14	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:20:00 - [1] - Quote Whenever I've looked at them where you activate you're boosters, they're there. They've been there for awhile and whenever I click on them, it always says, "No data available". I'm guessing a skill spike is going to be an augmentation where you assign a specific skill that you want to add "passive skill" too and level it up accordingly over time. Skill cluster? No clue. Any ideas? Thanks!
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:32:00 - [2] - Quote You basically get a ton of skill points temporarily to test something out I guess, or for a corp battle. They are removed after a while.
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 134	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:33:00 - [3] - Quote Were they even in to begin with?
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2282	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:33:00 - [4] - Quote wish we know more about these and when we gettin them tbh.....
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.13 03:33:00 - [5] - Quote Skill spike is probably going to be a "buy 10k skill points for 5K AUR instantly"
Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 04:57:00 - [6] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Skill spike is probably going to be a "buy 10k skill points for 5K AUR instantly" Actually, it will be more like what Icy said mixed with what you said. You will instantly buy SP with AUR, but the SP will have a time limit on it.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:20:00 - [7] - Quote sounds P2W.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:23:00 - [8] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:44:00 - [9] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it. It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:49:00 - [10] - Quote Love how somebody speculates something suddenly its gospel. We dont know what they are when we do then we can b itch about them, how bout we wait to see what it actually is first, mkay.

Logi Bro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 836	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:49:00 - [11] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it. It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. But they will likely make the clusters and spikes cost a **** ton of AUR so only millionaires could could afford to pay that much for a video game.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.13 05:56:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it. It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. But they will likely make the clusters and spikes cost a **** ton of AUR so only millionaires could could afford to pay that much for a video game. You'd be surprised what some people are willing to spend their money on. However I still think this game needs to offer a subscription model for the hardcore players that are actually looking to invest some real time into this game.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 47	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:12:00 - [13] - Quote Personally, I'd be ok with it if it had a serious drawback as all boosters should. It should be something seriously negative like negating active skilling totally. In exchange for that, you get X skill to 5 for a single match (which you gain no active sp from whatsoever). Make skill clusters the same but for groups of related skills that you will get all to 5 for a single match at the same cost as a skill spike as well as having passive accumulation reduced to 25% for a week. If you use a skill cluster while your passive accumulation is reduced, you extend the length of the reduction by another week. It would all depend on what you got for what trade-off. I wouldn't see them as something that would be used in every match, but in the ones you were really counting on, you could have that option.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:18:00 - [14] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. No, it isn't, you just don't understand what pay-to-win means. You don't get anything from it that you couldn't get through normal play.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:27:00 - [15] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. No, it isn't, you just don't understand what pay-to-win means. You don't get anything from it that you couldn't get through normal play. I'm not going to sit and argue with you seeing as it's totally paying to temporarily gain an advantage over other players that would have to spend weeks and months to achieve.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:35:00 - [16] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. No, it isn't, you just don't understand what pay-to-win means. You don't get anything from it that you couldn't get through normal play. I'm not going to sit and argue with you seeing as it's totally paying to temporarily gain an advantage over other players that would have to spend weeks and months to achieve. Proto i think he's referring to the fact that eventually all items purchasable with aur will be purchaseble with ISK, however you are correct that in the interim until such option is open it is indeed P2W, as are passive and active SP booster(well really more like pay to get ahead).
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 134	Posted - 2013.01.13 06:47:00 - [17] - Quote They might be like implants in EVE and most importantly, cost ISK - with possible AUR variants. In EVE you can buy implants, plug them into your head, and you get 5% increased missile range or 5% more turret damage etc. until you die. In Dust it would probably work slightly differently, seeing as you die much more often, something like 5% more AR damage for 1 day.
slap26 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 462	Posted - 2013.01.13 07:13:00 - [18] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: You'd be surprised what some people are willing to spend their money on. However I still think this game needs to offer a subscription model for the hardcore players that are actually looking to invest some real time into this game. subscription model would be interesting, I wonder what it would entail?
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.13 08:28:00 - [19] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: I'm not going to sit and argue with you seeing as it's totally paying to temporarily gain an advantage over other players that would have to spend weeks and months to achieve. You still do not understand. You are not gaining an advantage over anyone. Let's say you have 1 million SP invested in infantry skills, and you get a skill cluster that unlocks 1 million SP worth of vehicle-related skills temporarily. Do you have an advantage over other players? What is the advantage you have over someone who invested their 1 million earned SP in vehicle-related skills? Or a player with 2 million SP, divided between infantry and vehicle skills? The answer is that you do not have an advantage over the latter two players. You do not have access to anything other players who earned their SP through fighting and put them into whatever your skill cluster is invested in does. Therefore it isn't pay to win, because the person paying for the skill cluster doesn't have an advantage that non-paying players don't have access to. They have a convenience, in that they temporarily unlock some options early, but how is that any different than getting bonus SP above and beyond what other players get via active boosters?
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:37:00 - [20] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. No, it isn't, you just don't understand what pay-to-win means. You don't get anything from it that you couldn't get through normal play. Pay to win means paying for an advantage that you would normally not have through normal game play. You WOULD reach that level through normal play, but being say 1,000,000 SP beyond where you normally would be means you are pounding people with proto weapons and mods in advanced gear while they are still on type 1/2 fits, thereby giving you an outrageous advantage. Yeah, that's not pay to win at all.

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 248	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:41:00 - [21] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: I'm not going to sit and argue with you seeing as it's totally paying to temporarily gain an advantage over other players that would have to spend weeks and months to achieve. You still do not understand. You are not gaining an advantage over anyone. Let's say you have 1 million SP invested in infantry skills, and you get a skill cluster that unlocks 1 million SP worth of vehicle-related skills temporarily. Do you have an advantage over other players? What is the advantage you have over someone who invested their 1 million earned SP in vehicle-related skills? Or a player with 2 million SP, divided between infantry and vehicle skills? The answer is that you do not have an advantage over the latter two players. You do not have access to anything other players who earned their SP through fighting and put them into whatever your skill cluster is invested in does. Therefore it isn't pay to win, because the person paying for the skill cluster doesn't have an advantage that non-paying players don't have access to. They have a convenience, in that they temporarily unlock some options early, but how is that any different than getting bonus SP above and beyond what other players get via active boosters? The advantage you get is that you can roll your top level regular fits, then jump right into a top level vehicle fit. Where as normally you only get one of those advantages. Regardless of, proto is totally right on this one and you guys are idiots if you can't see that PAYING FOR AN SP ADVANTAGE IS PAYING TO BE AHEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE. Not gonna argue it though, have fun being wrong
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:46:00 - [22] - Quote It is a very simple thing. Whatever it is will cost your Real World Cash. Some will hate it. Some will love it. Others will be convinced it turns the game into Pay To Win. Most posters will say it is OP and must be Nerfed. Welcome to Dust514, QQ Edition.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2013.01.13 11:49:00 - [23] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pay to win means paying for an advantage that you would normally not have through normal game play. You WOULD reach that level through normal play, but being say 1,000,000 SP beyond where you normally would be means you are pounding people with proto weapons and mods in advanced gear while they are still on type 1/2 fits, thereby giving you an outrageous advantage. Yeah, that's not pay to win at all. Just dropping in with an observation. Although you have the fancy gun, with lower requirements, you still lack the skills to wield it effectively - Just like in EVE, there is a difference between spawning with a setup and using the setup. Skill Spikes are likely going to be "trials" of a given skill letting you spawn with a weapon or module you want to try out, and maybe do a little better with it. Even so, that doesn't include all the core-skills and proficiency skills you miss out on by getting a certain weapon before you're truly ready. In short: yes it's a slight advantage, but only a temporary one. Plus it's not the same advantage one gets from having had enough time to fill out their skillset on their own.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 92	Posted - 2013.01.13 15:23:00 - [24] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it. It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. aside from the shear amount of money it would take to do that, but i mean..... if someone is willing to blow that much money on the game so consistantly then shouldn't they diserve to have it?? Plus its not like the extra temporary skill points gives anyone an unfair advantage, Eventually everyone would catch up, either because they hit whatever level the said consumer jumped to, or because everyone hit proto gear. I played with the b series suit against proto gear for two weeks last build, and it really doesn't bother me if i have to extend that to three weeks because a select few have the money to do it.
Cat Merc Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 12	Posted - 2013.01.13 16:27:00 - [25] - Quote F2P IS treating unpaying customers like second class citizens without them feeling like it. Hate it or love it, if you're not paying for anything you're not worth anything to CCP.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.14 06:29:00 - [26] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: The advantage you get is that you can roll your top level regular fits, then jump right into a top level vehicle fit. Where as normally you only get one of those advantages. Regardless of, proto is totally right on this one and you guys are idiots if you can't see that PAYING FOR AN SP ADVANTAGE IS PAYING TO BE AHEAD OF EVERYONE ELSE. Not gonna argue it though, have fun being wrong Do you guys seriously not comprehend the words you're using? Pay to win means you're paying for something that will give you an advantage in a fight. That will win you a game. Earlier access to skills, or being able to do either infantry or vehicle stuff or whatever, is not pay to win. You do not have any more power than any other player who earned those SP rather than temporarily purchased them. The difference between someone using a skill cluster to get certain infantry skills versus someone who earned those skills normally is nothing. You may as well call active/passive boosters pay to win, because based on your ridiculous definition of paying for an SP advantage, that's exactly what they are.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2013.01.14 07:05:00 - [27] - Quote Marston VC wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: sounds P2W. the skill points you buy are temporary. It's like buying a blind fire assault rifle. before you have the skills to use it. It's still P2W seeing as there's nothing stoping somebody from always running skill clusters and skill spikes 24/7. CCP might as well create an augmentation that allows players to reset their skill cap whenever they reach it. aside from the shear amount of money it would take to do that, but i mean..... if someone is willing to blow that much money on the game so consistantly then shouldn't they diserve to have it?? Plus its not like the extra temporary skill points gives anyone an unfair advantage, Eventually everyone would catch up, either because they hit whatever level the said consumer jumped to, or because everyone hit proto gear. I played with the b series suit against proto gear for two weeks last build, and it really doesn't bother me if i have to extend that to three weeks because a select few have the money to do it. ^This Also, honestly while I may be taking this in what some would consider an overly literal fashion I tend to think that pay to win means paying someone to, oh I don't know, win That being the case I'm amused at the frequancy of P2W comments and discussions on these forums. Anyone who went of against the numbered folks in proto/officer gear during the Asian game show event should know what I mean. Those folks were given (didn't even have to pay for lol) top gear and character skills and I'd consistently eat them up. Now for context remember a few things A) I play Logi so killing three guys to my one death is already amusing & B) my last seriously played fps was Unreal Tournament 2004. As such if getting what those guys had (i.e. proto or proto+ gear and topped out character skills) is pay to win then folks ought to be demanding their money back 0.02 ISK Cross ps ~ it's worth noting that most if not all of this thread so far is speculation with regards to game content
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.01.14 10:30:00 - [28] - Quote im hoping they are black market stims, EVE has needed a real, truly profitable use for the black market, for a long time.
Imp Smash On The Brink 51	Posted - 2013.01.14 10:55:00 - [29] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: F2P IS treating unpaying customers like second class citizens without them feeling like it. Hate it or love it, if you're not paying for anything you're not worth anything to CCP. That's fair though. If you aren't giving back then really you are just leeching from CCP. It's not like the tooth fairy leaves a dime under their pillow for eAch minute played....


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