DUST Search - Some of best players on here have a strange way of thinking.

Tiel Syysch wrote:

Zekain Kade wrote:

what you're describing is a super simplified encounter where both players are standing 10 feet from one another. Neither of them are moving, and they both fire at the exact same time. which just isn't realistic for a game like this. This is also the type of mind set that my OP talks about.

Good players trying to justify reasons why they should be able to kill more, and die less for the gear they use.

Sure, it would make sense in a game like halo 4 where the DMR dominates every other starter weapon in the game. It has a greater impact because everyone has the same health. But in this game, it's different.

He was the one describing it in that way, that's why I built the example around that kind of scenario. I don't assume people are just gonna stand there and face each other holding R1 til someone dies, which is why I think the one or zero bullets less to kill for upgrading a weapon isn't significant. That 1 bullet of killing power is rarely a deciding factor when you take into account people moving around and aiming inaccuracy.

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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2013.01.13 20:54:00 - [61] - Quote yeah there is always those guys in a pub match with 0-17 or worse.
Lady Hyuna Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2013.01.13 21:42:00 - [62] - Quote You know, It could be the most balanced game out there. People still will complain because they don't do that well. When I first started and I sucked all could do decently is Medic outfit. Then I learned to adapt and found out I was decent with laser rifles. Now I make 750+ wp without being medic. getting 5+ kills a game. Laser riffles from above works wonders against Heavy armored guys. Got learn what weapons are effective against what drop suits and such. What people and devs need to learn is you can nerf all you want out of a weapon, but still can be the most effective weapon if you know how to use it. Hell I seen people just use nova knives and get a 9-4 record. When I am having a bad game and getting sniped 8 or 9 times. Snipers are not OP, they are just skilled at it and I need to be aware of my surroundings more and not tip toeing through the tulips, thinking i am the best. There is always someone better than you , no matter how good you are. Find a weapon your good at and do your best, Just don't think your going to die because of the gear you have. Could nerf the hell out of the militia gear and up the hell out of the photo gear. You might just die from what people call TEAMWORK. Or someone with just as good gear shoot you to inch of life and someone with militia gear kills you, Or like some people said that your just being stupid and have too much ego and got killed out of stupidity.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2013.01.13 21:51:00 - [63] - Quote Yeah if I spot a sniper and I have a scrambler pistol or AR in hand they're good as dead if they missed with the first shot.
Octavian Vetiver Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance 152	Posted - 2013.01.13 22:11:00 - [64] - Quote I capped a sniper day before yesterday. I was in a assault fit with swarms and scrambler pistol and used cover to flank them. I ended up popping them with the scrambler pistol at close range. They never saw it coming.
James Thraxton The Exemplars 73	Posted - 2013.01.13 22:41:00 - [65] - Quote well i think everything's real balanced now. . . i average 3-5 kills for every death, every upgrade i get i can see situations where lower gear would have killed me, at least once a round i have a situation where higher gear would have saved me, and i go after resupplies, kills, hacks and revives every round. . . i run with a type II logi suit, militia lows and meds i use an assault SMG (level 2) i kill as many heavies in cqb as vice versa, except i use a smg i'm top 5 in nearly every match happy as a clam with infantry warfare,
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2013.01.14 01:44:00 - [66] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: what you're describing is a super simplified encounter where both players are standing 10 feet from one another. Neither of them are moving, and they both fire at the exact same time. which just isn't realistic for a game like this. This is also the type of mind set that my OP talks about. Good players trying to justify reasons why they should be able to kill more, and die less for the gear they use. Sure, it would make sense in a game like halo 4 where the DMR dominates every other starter weapon in the game. It has a greater impact because everyone has the same health. But in this game, it's different. He was the one describing it in that way, that's why I built the example around that kind of scenario. I don't assume people are just gonna stand there and face each other holding R1 til someone dies, which is why I think the one or zero bullets less to kill for upgrading a weapon isn't significant. That 1 bullet of killing power is rarely a deciding factor when you take into account people moving around and aiming inaccuracy. Yes, Kade I was the one who set up the scenario but, it was a trap for Tiel. Although it took your post for him to bite. Will go into that in a min. Yes three complex damage mods are not going to work I have already figured that out and, was making adjustments to my plan to best optimize my fit around that. Now on to the trap. Tiel's spread sheet thread was created after there was a good long thread about the damage between tiers. In this original thread I posted what I felt was right about damage between the tiers, with hit probability taking movement and inaccuracy into account along with skills to decrease dispersion for the AR(Since this was the weapon that the thread was focused on). Tiel made a response telling me that taking this into account was wrong and should not be applied when looking at the damage between tiers. Yet in his last post he states that people holding still is not what is going to happen and that one bullet is not enough to decide in that kinda battle. What will decide in that kinda battle though is the weapons accuracy, range, bullet spread(which with better accuracy will get better as you skill into the AR), and these things all get better as you go up in the weapon tiers. These are the deciding factor when it is weapon to weapon. That is why I feel that the weapons damage difference is good because in a fight damage between tiers is not all that is to be taken into account because, that one bullet becomes better as the fight gets wilder due to the higher tier being better all around. Again though this is still a skill equal match. With the difference in damage now though someone with a situational advantage and a worse weapon should win as long as his skill is good enough to take advantage of the this situation. So to tie into Kade the better geared guy should not be complaining because he lost to a guy with a worse gun but should chalk it up to that guy got him fair and square and move on. P.S. sorry about the late post I haven't been on here all day.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.01.14 03:01:00 - [67] - Quote OH THANK GOD SOME ONE SAID IT!! I really didnt want to have to start this thread but you are 100% right. they often talk as if they should be able to run proto gear non stop. This game cant support more then the top 5-10% of players running proto nonstop in pub matches with low level players. high level gear is suppose to to give you an edge not allow you to stomp militia units left and right. after open beta hopefully we will have enough players that high level matches will be reinstated and you can run proto to your hearts content but untill then the game cant really support every ******* with full proto gear going 25 to 1. proto is a tactical asset, not an I win button. It is supposed to only be used at critical junctures and not none stop.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2013.01.14 03:18:00 - [68] - Quote Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote: "People who ran proto gear complained that they were getting killed by militia gear. They complained that it was CCP's fault that they died, and not their own. They demanded nerfs so that no one who ran in militia gear would ever be able to kill them." People without Proto complained so much about getting killed by "Proto guys" because they didn't want to spend their SP in good skills. So CCP listened to those 85% of beta players complaing and they nerf the Proto stats (but they didn't nerf the ISK/SP requeriments for Proto Skills). Don't talk about complain because people without "Proto" did it first. the problem here is the mind set that proto gear should pay for its self by how much better it makes you. this is just unsupportable. So you had two options earlier nerf high end gear or raise the cost of using it so, it is lost faster and people stop using it every time a militia suit killed their standard. frankly I would like to see proto gear become more expensive and that we get better paying matches for high level guys. That way we can enjoy what we skilled into, but newer players aren't perpetually pelted with gear they cant touch. maybe then we can talk about a proto buff.


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