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BAM HUSQVARNA
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
42
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Posted - 2013.01.05 01:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
This game fails to create any sense of urgency during game play. And this is by far the biggest problem currently plaguing this game. IMO, unless this is addressed the game will fail at retaining players long term.
At its core, the game fails on a spectacular level to engage players during matches. Anyone who played MAG will know what I'm talking about...
Compare Dust Ambush to MAG Sabotage:
Dust Ambush: A team death match with the only urgency created is a dwindling clone count displayed on screen, and a voice-over providing an a clone count / time progress update if I'm not mistaken...
MAG Sabotage: Initially a team death match yet with success hinged on the defense of two letters, which the enemy has 20 minutes to capture and hold simultaneously for a period of time in order to open access to a third and final objective, again requiring capture. There's a clock counting down, there's sirens whaling as objectives are taken back and forth, there's people yelling in squad and platoon chat. A good match, is both consuming and intense.
I won't even compare Dust Skirmish to MAG Domination... And no, the difference isn't the player count disparity.
Forget all the other stuff like framerate, group sizing, hit detection, imbalance or lack of proxy chat. They're all minor to the long term success of this game. The lack urgency the current game modes create is the games biggest failure.
So to CCP, in your next team meeting, please discuss and plan to address this topic.
TL;DR... Screw you, read it.
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Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
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Posted - 2013.01.05 01:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your gonna have to elaborate on what you mean by lack of urgency. You want like action music or somthing? I have a blast playing this game |
Mark Shirey
Doomheim
46
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Posted - 2013.01.05 01:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's closed beta.. |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
253
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Posted - 2013.01.05 01:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I too feel like the game lacks a sense of urgency. It just all feels so slow |
Washlee
UnReaL.
131
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
I know what he's talking about. I used to play MAG.
But you have to remember this is a closed beta theres alot more engaging game modes coming on the open beta release and release time.
Hopefully if Im correct there will be something that will keep your morale going in a game xD
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SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
253
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Of course it's a beta.. but I didn't realize CCP were mind readers and know every issue we have with the current build and already have fixes in place for the next patch.
These forums are for discussions, "it's a beta, sit down and shut up" is not discussing. |
BattleCry1791
70
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Allow me to expand on what BAM's trying to say (full disclosure: I'm a former MAG player and a former member of BAM's clan/corp).
MAG created a real sense of urgency in every match. Two reason for this: 1) It had a clock. The most common game mode was 20 mins long. 2) Every game mode had clear cut objectives. Not saying that DUST doesn't. One of the first maps of the closed BETA, a Skirmish map, had kind of a MAG feel to it. You had to blow two towers in order open up the base and THEN you could win the game. (A lot of players don't like these kinds of scenarios because it creates meat grinders...they'd prefer to walk around and get into one on ones...I refer to these folks as p*ssies).
To go a bit farther with the second point of my post:
To win MAG you had to "hold circle". In other words, you had to walk up to an objective, much like here, and hold circle. Allow me to try to explain the urgency in Sabatoge mode without getting all MAG crazy:
As the attacking squad, you had 20 mins to take two objectives at the same time, and then a third objective which only opened up after taking the first two. In other words, your squad took one objective and someone else took the other, you held them for 20 seconds and BOOM, the third and final objective is opened up and now it's a 32 on 32 meatgrinder over one objective. Again the numbers do come into play a bit, but those are coming SOON correct?
The clock kept you honest, you couldn't just mess around and expect to win. You had to go hard most of the time. And here was the best part of it.
Once the final objective was opened...if you planted on it...it stopped the clock. So as the defending team you could lose with 1 second left. I've been the cause and victim of this and I have to tell you, it makes you strike a pose and shout victorious obscenities at the screen.
It's not uncommon for the last 2 to three mins of a Sabotage match to be be an intense drama filled time if the Final Objective has been opened by the attacking team.
Now in DUST we have more of a Battlefield feel to it. There's not much sense of urgency other than dwindling tickets and failing MCC shields and armor. Which is fine, but it could be better. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well said Battle. I'd love to see an Acquisition-like mode, where you have to attack the defending team, and steal and run off with an objective of some kind. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I am not a MAG player. But reading that description makes me want to play that kind of match. Nicely described, Sir
CCP, Make it so!
-- Howard Sanchez ZionTCD, Logistics Div.
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
229
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
mikegunnz wrote:Well said Battle. I'd love to see an Acquisition-like mode, where you have to attack the defending team, and steal and run off with an objective of some kind. I'd love deployable bunkers but yeah i know: "it's a different game", "go play MAG", "wait till MAG 2 comes out" bla bla bla, bla bla bla edit: oh and what about a REAL precision strike that instead of destroying bunkers, mortars etc destroyes vehicles? that would balance the infantry-vehicle dispute |
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Moejoe Omnipotent
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
241
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Posted - 2013.01.05 02:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Agreed. The audio especially needs attention. Ever played the game with the music off? There's zero ambient noise.. |
BattleCry1791
70
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Posted - 2013.01.05 03:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
And MAG wasn't the only game that had this factor. The GREATEST objective based game ever, which unfortunately had about 6 billion other problems, was Brink.
It too had a timer and could create intense moments due to you trying to beat the clock as EVERY map was an objective based map, sometimes with two or three objectives. There are a million reasons why it failed, but the objective based maps weren't one of them. |
Tbone322
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
124
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Posted - 2013.01.05 03:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
BattleCry1791 wrote:And MAG wasn't the only game that had this factor. The GREATEST objective based game ever, which unfortunately had about 6 billion other problems, was Brink.
It too had a timer and could create intense moments due to you trying to beat the clock as EVERY map was an objective based map, sometimes with two or three objectives. There are a million reasons why it failed, but the objective based maps weren't one of them.
Brink was a blast, too bad lag killed it.
The one map mode I really want back is the one Objective map. That was a ton of fun, lots of people in a small area all trying to take the only objective that mattered. That felt like final letters in Domination!!! |
Free Healing
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
234
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Posted - 2013.01.05 03:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
BAM HUSQVARNA wrote:This game fails to create any sense of urgency during game play. And this is by far the biggest problem currently plaguing this game. IMO, unless this is addressed the game will fail at retaining players long term.
At its core, the game fails on a spectacular level to engage players during matches. Anyone who played MAG will know what I'm talking about...
Compare Dust Ambush to MAG Sabotage:
Dust Ambush: A team death match with the only urgency created is a dwindling clone count displayed on screen, and a voice-over providing an a clone count / time progress update if I'm not mistaken...
MAG Sabotage: Initially a team death match yet with success hinged on the defense of two letters, which the enemy has 20 minutes to capture and hold simultaneously for a period of time in order to open access to a third and final objective, again requiring capture. There's a clock counting down, there's sirens whaling as objectives are taken back and forth, there's people yelling in squad and platoon chat. A good match, is both consuming and intense.
I won't even compare Dust Skirmish to MAG Domination... And no, the difference isn't the player count disparity.
Forget all the other stuff like framerate, group sizing, hit detection, imbalance or lack of proxy chat. They're all minor to the long term success of this game. The lack urgency the current game modes create is the games biggest failure.
So to CCP, in your next team meeting, please discuss and plan to address this topic.
TL;DR... Screw you, read it.
While I understand your post and agree with it for the most part (as a MAG fan i can see what your saying) I"D like to point out that your comparisons are a little unfair.
Ambush =/= Sabatoge
Ambush is more comparable to the game mode "suppresion" in MAG
Skirmish is remarkably similar to the Interdiction game mode (only a few MAG Players know this mode)
Keep the faith. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.01.05 03:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
interesting concepts. Seems like team games concepts have gone some distance since the days of TF1... |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
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Posted - 2013.01.05 03:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
Losing has no consequences yet. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Losing has no consequences yet.
QFT
People don't care yet.
But yah the map game modes are really sad too. |
BAM HUSQVARNA
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
42
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:Your gonna have to elaborate on what you mean by lack of urgency. You want like action music or somthing? I have a blast playing this game
It's not what I want. It's what the game needs.
The game needs faster paced game modes: - With closer spawn point to objective relationships. - Where the outcome of a game is determined by capturing / holding a certain objective(s) for a designated period of time. - Where the map isn't large and wide open. - And a clock is needed, one the counts down...
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Odiain Suliis
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
112
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
I would like to see how players will/will not defend their MCC, when that is item that they have bought with ISK. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2282
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
BattleCry1791 wrote:Allow me to expand on what BAM's trying to say (full disclosure: I'm a former MAG player and a former member of BAM's clan/corp).
MAG created a real sense of urgency in every match. Two reason for this: 1) It had a clock. The most common game mode was 20 mins long. 2) Every game mode had clear cut objectives. Not saying that DUST doesn't. One of the first maps of the closed BETA, a Skirmish map, had kind of a MAG feel to it. You had to blow two towers in order open up the base and THEN you could win the game. (A lot of players don't like these kinds of scenarios because it creates meat grinders...they'd prefer to walk around and get into one on ones...I refer to these folks as p*ssies).
To go a bit farther with the second point of my post:
To win MAG you had to "hold circle". In other words, you had to walk up to an objective, much like here, and hold circle. Allow me to try to explain the urgency in Sabatoge mode without getting all MAG crazy:
As the attacking squad, you had 20 mins to take two objectives at the same time, and then a third objective which only opened up after taking the first two. In other words, your squad took one objective and someone else took the other, you held them for 20 seconds and BOOM, the third and final objective is opened up and now it's a 32 on 32 meatgrinder over one objective. Again the numbers do come into play a bit, but those are coming SOON correct?
The clock kept you honest, you couldn't just mess around and expect to win. You had to go hard most of the time. And here was the best part of it.
Once the final objective was opened...if you planted on it...it stopped the clock. So as the defending team you could lose with 1 second left. I've been the cause and victim of this and I have to tell you, it makes you strike a pose and shout victorious obscenities at the screen.
It's not uncommon for the last 2 to three mins of a Sabotage match to be be an intense drama filled time if the Final Objective has been opened by the attacking team.
Now in DUST we have more of a Battlefield feel to it. There's not much sense of urgency other than dwindling tickets and failing MCC shields and armor. Which is fine, but it could be better.
HAHAHA man i MISSED those sabo games like that **** was intense wont lie.
ACQ and DOM games like that as well.
TBQH DUST can both use skirmish 1.0 and 2.0 2.0 reminds me more of a BF2142 lite....to make more exciting imho we should be able to board the MCC once shields are on to be able to quickly finish it
give us options like the old skirmish ppl cant tell me once the playercount rises to 24v24 or 32v32 ppl wont like sending a recon/demolitions squad to board the mcc....never know they might be losing and directly blowing up the MCC from the inside might be their only way to win
right now skirmish 2.0 is like half of what BF2142 is and old skirmish was a nice MAG style objective mode
both can be used and refined to be so much better |
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Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Especially since we have no idea as to how many MCC types CCP is planning on having and how much each one might cost a corporation. It may be more then one MCC per race with each one having different attributes and bonuses. I do expect them at some point with expansions to keep adding to the amount of gear in game. Since that has what has happened to EVE over the years I expect they'll do the same for DUST. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2866
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
MCCs would be mostly role determined by fittings if all goes well.
Consider them like the carriers of eve online. |
BAM HUSQVARNA
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
42
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Posted - 2013.01.05 05:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Odiain Suliis wrote:I would like to see how players will/will not defend their MCC, when that is item that they have bought with ISK.
LOL. You honestly think players are always going to be in well organised Corps? And always be participating in the attack and defense of asset as a Corporation? I think not...
The game needs better modes to attract and retain players, while they are not Corp battling, otherwise it will die. It's as simple as that.
I've said it, and so have some others in my Corp; playing DUST by yourself is straight up boring. The only reason I do it is to grind ISK or SP while others are offline.
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Milk Supreme
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
127
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Posted - 2013.01.05 10:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Supported |
Vanda-Kon
Feast On Skulls
66
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Posted - 2013.01.05 10:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
The siren in mag killed my ears. It was the worst. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
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Posted - 2013.01.05 11:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Especially since we have no idea as to how many MCC types CCP is planning on having and how much each one might cost a corporation. It may be more then one MCC per race with each one having different attributes and bonuses. I do expect them at some point with expansions to keep adding to the amount of gear in game. Since that has what has happened to EVE over the years I expect they'll do the same for DUST. The addition of gear will probably be slower than EVE. Most of the stuff you see was added when CCP was creating expansions like rabbits on heat. But this fast pace made them forget about bugs, and the famous boot.ini problem occured. That among a lot of other things. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2013.01.05 17:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
BAM HUSQVARNA wrote:Odiain Suliis wrote:I would like to see how players will/will not defend their MCC, when that is item that they have bought with ISK. LOL. You honestly think players are always going to be in well organised Corps? And always be participating in the attack and defense of asset as a Corporation? I think not... The game needs better modes to attract and retain players, while they are not Corp battling, otherwise it will die. It's as simple as that. I've said it, and so have some others in my Corp; playing DUST by yourself is straight up boring. The only reason I do it is to grind ISK or SP while others are offline.
Agreed, the majority of the time players will be in high sec or (if they're in a corp) maybe low sec. I don't see players spending all their time defending or attacking sov territory... just not realistic. MAYBE 20% of matches will be attacking or defending other corps. (and that would be for aggressive corps) |
Sobriety Denied
Universal Allies Inc.
432
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Posted - 2013.01.05 17:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
i was under the impression these are not the final game modes, at least i hope there not. i'm tired of skirmish anyway- some bunch of random grouping nerds raging out over the letters A B and C, it is only fun for 3 months or so.. ambush people are so much more laid back and are much less co dependent on their squad mates they just stfu and play
i'm beggining to prefer solo play over trying to do a pickup up squad way less drama when your solo and you have only yourself to worry about impressing |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
650
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
The problem with the game modes of DUST today is that they are a slow grind. It isn't high action, fast paced. Your MCC slowly takes damage, and when it dies its completely predictable for the past 5 minutes of the match.
DUST needs more demolition style objectives where you plant charges instead of just hacking it. MAG's objectives were exciting because they went KABOOM and you advanced to a new one. And there was usually a sudden death ending, where the loss could come at any second potentially. Domination did not have sudden death but the speed of the damage bars were balanced well enough that if you let down your game, the enem would take advantage and win quickly.
It was frantic, high kill as well as high death games. Yes it had a meat grinder feeling sometimes but it was frantic and always intense when facing decent opposition. |
Gunner Nightingale
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
314
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Posted - 2013.03.10 00:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
i know what you mean it feels more like domination game mode more than anything else.
Or multi-King of the hill. |
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